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Perplexed
Mar 19, 2017 16:41:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cagedadventurer on Mar 19, 2017 16:41:53 GMT -5
I'm very sorry he is putting you through all of this confusion. He's resetting you in different ways so that his life doesn't change because he obviously had the marriage he wanted. He's probably also hoping your kindness will be a weakness so he can keep the status quo. It's ok to empathize for him because he will be sad, but that's just an emotion and emotions change. Focus on yourself and what you want for yourself. If you want to go on the date night then go, if you don't then don't. Hugs bballgirl I think he is just trying to reset in many different ways - I've always been too nice to him - have been instrumental in perpetuating a lot of his behavior that I can no longer tolerate. I do see my role in this and also realize I tend to over think things. Your advice to just focus on what I want is something I think I needed to hear again - needed this reminder. Thank you! Xx
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 8, 2016 14:26:55 GMT -5
Been there... and there are sooooo many places I would go
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 8, 2016 13:49:24 GMT -5
Your story IS TEXTBOOK! But "nope on the hope" thing. Though there is a 1% chance.
I was 5 years in with one son when I gave her divorce papers I had drawn up myself and offering a reasonable amount for child care. She broke and got better, offered to get outside help even. (so) I didn't force the divorce. She got nicer but the sex never returned to pre-baby status. The only case where change is effected (getting sex) is when you pack to leave or deliver papers! You can be cordial, very civil but make clear that a SM is not a marriage so let's make a plan together here in how to parent our children. Then let her cry and talk and cry. Then get back to topic, we need to talk about the future now and that is the the co-parenting of our children after this divorce. YOU have to force the change; just be nice but PRAGMATIC as PRAGMATIC as you can be!
Believe me she knows how to conclude the consequences of her actions and that she can no longer use your "Mr. Nice Guy" personality against you. Bottom line is She is in control so give up on the hope now unless you take action! You move out of the BR for now - clothes and all from the closet and you will see how quickly she gets scared into action as she watches you taking control.
There is so much to offer here BUT refusers are controllers. Take that power away and see how she tries to get back on track with you. This is the ONLY HOPE you have. Or anyone has. No one has yet reported the miracle cure.
The anxiety of a SM will not kill you but it will slowly erode your ambitions and purpose. In addition to the "show her you are serious" actions, you should practice a few lines to stay on point. (e.g. "I can't share intimate space with someone who cannot be intimate with me - it's kinda like torture"). Also "You deserve to be free to find someone with whom you can be intimate and enjoy a long future". These are powerful but be careful NOT to dialogue and get sucked into all the sympathetic reasons you should be more patient with her, etc. It's all B.S., stall tactics, etc. from a currently dysfunctional who will take from you and avoid you until you have been married 10 years, 20 years and you'll still be on this site. So once again, no on the Hope UNLESS you take control now and move out of the BR or file for divorce. I predict you will will see a change that you will like and she will look back on and be glad you took action. After all, we all want our marriages to work but status quo will not heal this.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Nov 8, 2016 12:04:54 GMT -5
JMX, I do appreciate your way with words. Maybe because you are honest and they're from the heart. Your therapist does not quite get it, you're not negative. It's an apathy we develop realizing that it's a "lost cause" however your quote " At this point I have a visualization of my life with him and without him. My vision without him is pretty spectacular but... Bumpy and messy. My vision with him is pretty stable for the kids and my overall knowledge of history and how that will play out (basically, it IS WHAT IT IS). I am fine with either way that turns out." Most on the outside will interpret this as negative. I am "usually quite positive- and I love life" but I do learn to be realistic and call a spade a spade.
And yes - no other levels to breach!! We have been trying for 2+ decades to be understanding and gracious but to the same end and we almost forget who we are or who we feel we were/are supposed to be because of our continual "changing of our personalities to please and be pleasing". Yea, the ultimatum gets us some sex but that becomes perpetually less inviting and hardly worth all the aggravation to get there. I never liked the saying "IT IS WHAT IT IS" but I have grown to see it helps us push on. I compare it to being born with a disability, there would be things I would not be able to do and I would have to learn to accept that because IT IS WHAT IT IS. Our SM or LS (Lackluster Sex) situations, unfortunately, are something that we can change but to what end is often the issue. I'm rambling, so I'll quit here but know that your therapist has concluded incorrectly - you are NOT negative.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Sept 30, 2016 14:34:39 GMT -5
Becca, I can say that I have a similar pattern. I WANT TO DO THE DEED - YES - OVER AND OVER but I take the conversation to the point with just enough innuendo to at least believe it could happen if either I went for it or just asked. Somehow knowing that I could is enough validation but I always sabotage before it actually happens.
The first time was with a bank teller down in Ft. Myers. I dropped a hint at going on a 3 day Bahamas cruise - and she was good with it!!! but she wanted to meet for lunch to "talk" and make the relationship a bit more meaningful than just the mild flirting. I did but then I cooled off and did not take the trip. But it was very helpful knowing that I was acceptable and desirable even if W made it clear otherwise.
I must say that if you and I had planned this and we shopped together for that "fun attire" I'm not sure we would not have gone at it multiple x's the same night!
your reasons 2 & 3 are probably my reasons..... I do want to like and respect the person before the deed.....
C
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Post by cagedadventurer on Aug 30, 2016 16:29:46 GMT -5
My Mybestmatch.com questionnaire Rate on a scale of 1-5 with 4- VERY IMPORTANT and 5-DEAL BREAKER IMPORTANT and either we could have a lot of fun together or simply never meet . 1- Monogamy – family values-Church 2- Willingness to work together concerning household needs 3- Adventure and Travel 4- Holding Hands 5- Flirting (with each other) 6- Marriage before children 7- Shopping and Cooking together 8- Hugs 9- Sex, not necessarily kinky but certainly not without some variants 10- Frequent Sex 11- Making friends/socializing as a couple 12- Willingness to learn new sports or gain new talents 13- Willingness to cut off anything that holds “us” down such as alcohol, television, obsessive friends, drama, etc. 14- Willingness to execute a plan for the future including financial 15- Sex – just to make sure you’re still paying attention Attachments:
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Post by cagedadventurer on Aug 30, 2016 15:52:05 GMT -5
ted,
your avatar reflects the sadness I have felt for years as I'd drive to work each morning. Usually by noontime, I would "heal" from another rejection and by day end, repeat the same "get along niceties" followed physical avoidance. This has gone on for years. Some evenings as I'd drive an hour home, I listened to some Barry Manilow songs (ah, I admitted this) as some are so appropriate to refusers. But I recall getting so saddened once-almost hopeless, I had to eject the CD and trash it at the next gas stop.
I could never believe that I, a person who wants to take in everything life offers, could get depressed. But lately, I think it is happening! So little matters anymore. Any trip or adventure to see something would be alone or with the kids only but I really want to enjoy life as an adult and with an adult too. She is pleasant, etc. but I'm alone.
What goes through my head so often of late is that of all the days I have left early for work, up early to catch a plane, etc. ONLY ONCE has she gotten up to see me off and that turned out to be because her cat was in the garage and she wanted to make sure it did not get out when I opened the door! I will never expect to hear "I Love You". But if I saw it in real action, by way of actual concern for my well being, my brain would likely hear those words and I'd smile as I headed out.
BTW, I'm working from home today. She has made herself somewhat available so IF I were to press the issue, she'd have sex but I will not ask again, I will not beg. I'm playing avoid-er now - so as to not be that rat which gets intermittent rewards to keep him in line.
All this being responsible stuff, being a good husband and father carries little significance to the one we are devoted to. They just like the free ride.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Aug 30, 2016 15:29:00 GMT -5
My refuser and I had 2 cats together - we had adopted them as kittens, back in the days when things were good between us. After I moved, we decided that they would continue to live with him. On Sunday, one of those cats became very ill (they are 12 years old; and have already had a few age-related issues.) By Monday afternoon, she had not improved, and the vet believed that she wouldn't. We decided (both of us, in agreement) that it was time to let her go. I was there with my ex - I drove an hour and a half right after work, so I could be there, and we could do this together. And I felt that his love for me is still there. But it's still that damaged kind of love. Something weird happened to him - he went through some health issues and life issues, and I guess he chose to give in to that, to allow life to make him into an old man, beyond sex or joy or willingness to DO anything. And he wanted to keep me there, in that place of being 85-years-old-at-50. He wanted me to go there with him, and I just couldn't do it. If I have to live like that, then I would just as soon cut to the chase and be dead already. And it's still that way with him. We still have one other pet together - the sister cat of the cat who died. And while I was at his place, he lavished attention on this cat. He got up off the couch and went away from me, to fuss over the cat. And that's another thing that happened all the time when we were together. I'm sad over losing a pet; and I'm also getting another reminder of the relationship I had, and how that went south. To hear this short experience amazes me how similar people really can be. My wife and your ex would fit well together. My wife has always had cats and I grew to resent the attention they received. smartkat, I have had the same thoughts of how someone in her 40's can as though she is 80, almost resigned to just avoid the world and just "be". No zest or just intermittent zest for life. Occasional dinners out and tv shows........ AHHHHH, there is so much more! But they want to be "old" and just not do anything including "that sex stuff"!
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Post by cagedadventurer on Aug 20, 2016 22:08:48 GMT -5
Perhaps it is because 1+1=3. That is, their spouses are lending strength and boosting confidence, enabling them to be better people and lead a low-worry life. In contrast to sapping energy, fueling worry, and being an emotional distraction. Exactly. Even now, I wonder how I'd be different if I had my basic human needs met for love, affection, touch, and emotional support and encouragement. Without it, we are like withered plants parched from lack of water and nourishment, only for us, it's nourishment of the soul. Well said carissimi and DryCreek! I have been thinking just this week that I'm not even sure who I am anymore, All the dreams and ambitions smothered under criticisms. I always felt as early as 13 that I was destined for some great things, to make real differences. But as stated here, the lack of encouragement and emotional sapping has taken its toll. I think back at how she has ridiculed reading, learning, trying to move ahead by studying something new. I am thinking of getting a life coach to help me get back on track. To even say this , I feel weak like I should not need someone else, but for all that I am capable of, I'm trapped and not sure how to escape this mundane way of going along. SO much I want to see and experience! It's time! I have more but my battery is at 5%.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jul 10, 2016 1:02:39 GMT -5
You can take the reset sex, all you can get. I'm doing that lately too. You mentioned " if even a glimmer of hope"; yea it's worth it for our kid's sakes. For our sakes. I think many refusers REALLY don't comprehend the pain we experience as the refused. He's trying, lets hope he is committed for the longer haul.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 18, 2016 19:58:33 GMT -5
I'm good looking, smart, athletic, creatively inclined, like people, fun to be around, all the normal stuff. Yet here I am.......again...........still........and ..... All because I mis-married a woman whose issues she threw onto me as soon as she had what SHE wanted most of all -- three children. Then - no more sex, cruelty, disparaging remarks, smart as a whip and can turn everything around on a dime and beat me to death with it. The cruelest part of all? She has continued, all these years, to go cheerfully around the home doing her thing, engaging in her interests and hobbies, mainly the kids even now that they're out on their own. Separate bedrooms for 8 years........she tells people that come over that it's because I snore. It's a big joke with her. This woman has DESTROYED me. I have been suicidal in the past and feel like I'm a step away from moving in that direction again. I want out SO badly........ mylastchance, so many great folks on these forums and especially here to listen to. AMAZING, your story made me recall 29 years ago how somehow she mentally lassoed me! I was staying at her apartment far more often than I wanted and began accumulating clothes. I did not want the allusion that I was living there, so I concluded I needed to get my stuff to my car. But I recall I knew I needed to do this secretly to avoid a confrontation. But she saw me, and “sweetly” questioned me and then sex, the next day too and the day after that…. I was pulled in. A kid and a house later, the rejection and vitriolic behavior began. I look back and understand she had been rejected and verbally lashed by her mother growing up so she would not allow another rejection, not by me – a “nice guy”. So the emotional manipulation begins and is perfected over time. The frog slowing boiling analogy keeps coming to mind. My deal is not as extreme as I learned to put her in her place once I decided I had NOTHING to lose, so I was finally powerful enough to turn control. THE WORD GAMES! – Yes. Even as recent as two years ago; I’m sure it was an argument where I defended being a man or defending why the kids are not disrespectful because they make messes; but I told her then I will not argue because she has a masterful way of taking my words, putting them into her own word bucket and throwing t hem back at me so twisted I lost the ability to discern the truth or the facts. She denied this of course. Now things did improve afterward as I told her I was ready to leave her and we were all sick of her controlling ways. Again, better since then but I am here just the same. Consider the story of those held against their will for years, just to find them as full grown adults functioning in public never seeming to remember they were kidnapped YET this is NOT their life. Think Jaycee Dugard. Maybe a stretch but here she worked for the family printing business, made calls to customers, etc. She functioned BUT she kept quiet, took no action. You mention suicide, the depression, the anxiety. Figure that no matter what results from just walking out, life afterward will be a bonus. You are worth it and you deserve it! So do I! There is no downside. Think Shawshank redemption. This was a long calculated plan, but he finally acted after being unjustly imprisoned. This emotional prison is real. So knowing you don’t have the power to face the enemy and win just don't come home from work one day. Pack a few things for a "work trip", take an apartment and fit it as you like with your own stuff. Yes take the advice from Rhapsodee, change numbers, etc. go all Katie Holmes on her. A storage unit is a good idea for family things, valuable items or heirlooms that you do not want her to destroy or sell. BUT ask a brother or friend to reserve it for you in their name. This is when you go secret agent and hide from the enemy. Just the planning and strategizing will reinvigorate you.
Just go. It’s okay. Everything is a bonus to a man who felt dead but is again alive! You've got a real life to live yet. Time and health are on your side. I don't know where you are but if nearby we'd be shooting pool tonight planning your escape. Find that advocate, that friend. Just tell them you have to get out and need help in planning. Bring Rhapsodee's list. BUT start this week. No long time frames. Tell boss, leave of absence for 30 days for health concerns. This way you are free to be and she will not find you until she has been served. Then when she comes home to the empty house, just have Foreigner's cold as ice looping on the stereo. She'll get it. You'll smile every time you think about it.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 16, 2016 5:42:21 GMT -5
MASTER MANIPULATOR! He's hateful, he's lazy. Watch The Truman Show, movie from 1998. It may wake you to the lies you're living with. Then seek the advice as just suggested.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 16, 2016 5:24:34 GMT -5
Do you have a link to the post? I can't find him in the users when I searched. iliasm.org/user/339
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 15, 2016 20:07:20 GMT -5
Got home from work a couple of hours ago. Talked to my wife for maybe five minutes before she gave me "that look." "You're bothering me." She declared in a weary voice before trekking off to lay on the couch. I'm working from home this evening, and she sent me this pic. I think it kind of sums up what seems to be her view on marriage: I just know that's what my expectation has been. I just wanted to say thank you for all the thoughtful, brutally honest replies and insights all day today. Y'all definitely come in gloves off, and I really, really appreciate that. I'm looking online at therapists to contact tomorrow morning as I write this, and I'll definitely keep y'all posted on how things keep going. Thank you. I already feel a good bit better, knowing I have people who understand where I'm coming from. A therapist for her I hope but otherwise counseling WILL NOT HEAL THIS CIRCUMSTANCE! Only you leaving and her having to become the pursuer. facing that you are in charge and if she wants you for the decent guy you are, she needs to do her part. AND WORK HARD TO GET YOU BACK. Counseling will help you see the inevitable either way. Just don't look for reasons to wait. She told you how she feels.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 15, 2016 20:00:35 GMT -5
New poster here, and I've just started dealing with this in the last month or so. I'm outgoing, adventurous, spontaneous, very physically affectionate, and I've always had an incredibly high sex drive. Having a partner who's pretty much the polar opposite of that often makes me feel like I'm slowly dying inside. Has anybody else dealt with this sort of situation? Did it get better, and if so, what made the difference? If not, when did you know it was time to leave? Read the post from dan87 Lost, Confused, sad. He posed a similar situation. Lots of good replies there. Answer to your first question: YES!! and *&^% YES!! Answer to your second question: NO!! and *&^% NO!! Answer to your third question: Nothing you do makes a difference, I am sad to tell you. You are just pulled down and kept in their world, their cavern, their self-imposed prison and you are the care-taker, (but not an appreciated care-taker). You are the buffer to the real world , a buffer so she does not have to actually face the world every day. You work, she never gets better, you rarely get laid. High Sex drive = High frustration Level. You and I and all of us here for that matter have empathy for your wife but you may as well plan to leave. The dying in side is real. It's so painful, you will wither away. Save your self and maybe she'll save herself. But as long as you are there, she will remain as she is. You will do both of you a favor. Don't wait so long that you find out she is pregnant or that you owe alimony as insult to injury. Get convicted and act. Again, check out the post from dan87 for some real truth.
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