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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 15, 2016 8:19:40 GMT -5
New poster here, and I've just started dealing with this in the last month or so.
I'm 34 years old, I've been married for 13 months, and I'm coming up on 6 months since we last had sex. In fact, in our first year of marriage, we had sex a whopping total of seven times. These were all initiated by her, as any time I've tried to initiate any kind of physical contact in the last two years or so, I've been completely shut down. At this point, I've given up trying and have resigned myself to waiting for her either get drunk or something else to make her interested. I know this is really not that bad compared to the situations of some others I've read here, but for me, it's been just short of devastating.
My wife, who's the same age as me, has been dealing with pretty severe depression and anxiety for most of the last three years- panic attacks, migraines, almost constant lack of energy, sensitivity to noise and light, lots of days just spent in bed- the whole nine yards. Needless to say, it's been a rough last couple of years for the both of us.
About a year and a half ago, after a good bit of gentle encouragement on my part, she started seeing a counselor and got on an anti-anxiety medication. While this definitely helped with the biggest peaks and valleys, it hasn't "cured" her.
About six months ago, she decided she was "better," and stopped seeing the counselor, but has stayed on the mediation. When I gently suggested that maybe it wouldn't hurt to keep going, she accused me of expecting too much, too soon, and of not recognizing and appreciating the progress that she's made. I grew up with a mother who spent years in a hospital bring treated for severe depression, then spent a couple of years fighting it myself, so I know the signs and symptoms well, and they it's not something that just goes away overnight.
She knows and acknowledges that there's a serious problem here, but hasn't really shown any interest in getting help for the situation. I've asked about trying counseling since before we were even married, and she always declined, saying that she didn't see how it would change anything from how it has been. I'm currently in the process of finding myself a counselor to begin with, then trying one last time to see if she'd be willing to try counseling together.
I'm outgoing, adventurous, spontaneous, very physically affectionate, and I've always had an incredibly high sex drive. Having a partner who's pretty much the polar opposite of that often makes me feel like I'm slowly dying inside.
Has anybody else dealt with this sort of situation? Did it get better, and if so, what made the difference? If not, when did you know it was time to leave?
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 15, 2016 8:39:44 GMT -5
I have to ask: why did you get married when you were already at the point of wanting to go to counseling before the wedding?
Rhetorically, do we ALL marry our mothers??? Just kidding, kind of.
My ex was depressed and refused to deal with the causes of his depression, though he did go to therapy for 5 years during our marriage. It didn't help. I don't know what he was talking to the therapist about, what he had for lunch that day?
My new husband's ex wife was not only clinically depressed to the point of having a nervous breakdown and being unable to work, she probably also had some combination of a mental illness like bi-polar and/or a personality disorder. After a couple years of taking care of her, including lots of different meds, he spoke with her therapist about a timeline for her recovery. In essence, the therapist (this was in France where they don't indulge in phony positivity) said that she never would.
You probably already know this prognosis from your family. And you already know that you can't cure another person, or make them happy, or fill their voids, or force them to get help, though of course you can support them in the process if they do try to get better. Ultimately her mental health is her responsibility. You can only focus on how it affects you and whether you want to be along for this ride.
Im very sorry for your situation. But be proud of yourself that you are recognizing the problem after 6 months and not 20 years like some of us.
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Post by obobfla on Jun 15, 2016 9:17:19 GMT -5
cagedtiger, I am raising my hand here. Actually, I am jumping up and down and waving my arms. Shortly after I got married, my wife started hearing voices. They would normally appear right before her period. They were angry ones who told her what an awful person she was and how she could not do anything right. She yelled back at them then at me. I know it wasn't fun for her, but it definitely was not fun for me. I got her to a psychiatrist, who put her on Seroquel. The voices went away, but her personality left too. Thankfully, my wife gave me permission to talk to her psychiatrist, and I mentioned how she was. He gave her an anti-depressant to go with with the Seroquel. After a week, personality restored! Still, sex was ok. I wanted children, and my wife got pregnant. Although she discontinued her Seroquel through her pregnancy, somehow she was ok. But the day after the baby was born, the delusions returned. Her post-partum period was living hell. She got back on Risperdahl and an anti-depressant. Unlike Seroquel, Risperdahl did not cause any weight gain. But it did drain her energy. After a rough pregnancy, my wife was scared of getting pregnant again. She had an opportunity to have her tubes tied but never did. In order to have sex again, I wore a condom. She still panicked each time her period was a minute late. So, to save our marriage, I got a vasectomy. Even after explaining to her that her chances of getting pregnant were equal to her winning the lottery while being struck by lightning while holding a frozen snowball in hell, she still panicked each month. Later, she lost all desire for sex and sank into a depression. My wife is still in that depression. She sits all day in the dark, barely turning on lights or music. Our apartment is a mess, as she does little housework. She faithfully takes her medicine and sees her psychiatrist, but that is only once every six months for 15 minutes. We have not had sex in two years. She has not seen a gynecologist about her lack of sexual desire. I have since given up and outsourced. I have survived thanks to the local chapter of the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), which has a support group and classes for those whose loved ones are mentally ill. My outsourcing partners, family, and forums like this have helped tremendously too. I have become a support group facilitator and try to help those in situations like mine. For years, I went through a vicious cycle of resentment and guilt. I resent her illness, then I feel guilty for resenting it. Personal counseling has helped me deal with that. I repeat this analogy often - Yes, your wife is sick. It is not her fault. It is not your fault when you get a cold. But when you get a cold, it is your responsibility to wipe the snot from your nose and not to sneeze and cough on others. Your wife has a responsibility to accept her illness and treat it. You can help her, but you can't do it for her. The lack of sex and the thoughtlessness have broken me down. I am now looking for a way out. Next week, we see a marriage counselor. I will always be there for my wife as a friend and caregiver, but I cannot consider what we have to be a marriage anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 9:30:35 GMT -5
cagedtiger, I think you've just married very badly. You bought a lemon. I think you're going to have to shitcan this one and the sooner the better. Once you have kids, it makes it very difficult. This is only going to get worse -- if that is even possible.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 15, 2016 10:19:21 GMT -5
Have you ever asked her: "Why when you initiate sex, you get it every time?"
"When I initiate I get shut down?" Does she think this is fair?
If you have discussed this what is her response.
You are early enough in the marriage and this is so important, sex is important.
Lay your cards on the table and let her know what you expect otherwise you can just be friends.
I was in a 23 year marriage that I got shut down everytime. Meanwhile he never got refused. First ten years sexual frequency was about once a month. After that once a year. I was a fool. Don't make my mistake and waste decades of your life.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 15, 2016 10:20:04 GMT -5
cagedtiger , It does not get better. Your sex drive will not disappear. The intimacy you have now is as good as it'll ever be. You can still be a supportive friend without being married to her. Time is your enemy. Act with urgency. You're at a point in your life where the prospect of a fresh start is pretty high. As you let this drag out, leaving becomes much harder and so does finding a new love. DC
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 15, 2016 10:36:07 GMT -5
I have to ask: why did you get married when you were already at the point of wanting to go to counseling before the wedding? Rhetorically, do we ALL marry our mothers??? Just kidding, kind of. My ex was depressed and refused to deal with the causes of his depression, though he did go to therapy for 5 years during our marriage. It didn't help. I don't know what he was talking to the therapist about, what he had for lunch that day? My new husband's ex wife was not only clinically depressed to the point of having a nervous breakdown and being unable to work, she probably also had some combination of a mental illness like bi-polar and/or a personality disorder. After a couple years of taking care of her, including lots of different meds, he spoke with her therapist about a timeline for her recovery. In essence, the therapist (this was in France where they don't indulge in phony positivity) said that she never would. You probably already know this prognosis from your family. And you already know that you can't cure another person, or make them happy, or fill their voids, or force them to get help, though of course you can support them in the process if they do try to get better. Ultimately her mental health is her responsibility. You can only focus on how it affects you and whether you want to be along for this ride. Im very sorry for your situation. But be proud of yourself that you are recognizing the problem after 6 months and not 20 years like some of us. Things had been getting better, relatively speaking, for a little while during the run-up to the wedding. I honestly thought the worst was behind us, and that the towards trend would continue. Also, family, society, and community expectations; terrible excuses, I know, but very hard to cleanly escape from. We're both very active and highly placed with an organization we volunteer with together, and are similarly heavily involved within our Church as well- we're looking for a new minister, and I'm a deacon and she's on the search committee. It's not a matter of what others around would think of me, it's a matter of not putting innocent bystanders into bad places as collateral damage. While my mind has started drifting into the territory of exit strategies at the loneliest times, I'm willing to give this one more year of compete and total effort before I pull the ejection handle.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 15, 2016 10:45:40 GMT -5
obobfla, your story speaks very, very personally to me- thank you. We've been stuck at the same point in remodeling our house for several months now, what I haven't done has barely gotten done for a long time, and everything else is a nasty mess - the nightstand on her side of the bed is a sticky pile of empty Dr. Pepper cabs, Sprite bottles, and fast food containers. But she'll accuse me of being passive aggressive when I go to clean that all up when she's either not at home or just lying in bed watching TV.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 15, 2016 10:53:50 GMT -5
Have you ever asked her: "Why when you initiate sex, you get it every time?" "When I initiate I get shut down?" Does she think this is fair? If you have discussed this what is her response. You are early enough in the marriage and this is so important, sex is important. Lay your cards on the table and let her know what you expect otherwise you can just be friends. I was in a 23 year marriage that I got shut down everytime. Meanwhile he never got refused. First ten years sexual frequency was about once a month. After that once a year. I was a fool. Don't make my mistake and waste decades of your life. We've had that conversation several times. The most recently was on our way back from an anniversary trip to the mountains, where we slept in separate beds in the hotel room the whole time. Her usual reason is that she has to feel close to be intimate, whereas she feels I'm wired in the opposite way (sort of, but I chose this screen name for very specific reasons. More on that in the sexually speaking forum later). She's also put on a good bit of weight since we started dating and isn't the least bit comfortable seeing herself even partially unclothed, much less me. And despite my completely sincere assurances that I'm still physically attracted to her and desire her, I believe she still feels very unattractive. She also tells me fairly regularly that my "energy" annoys her and makes her nervous and anxious, so unless we're sitting still on the couch or in bed, she can't be around me for very long.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 15, 2016 11:02:13 GMT -5
@creelunion: there will be no kids, at least not with the current conditions. Aside from the obvious fact that I'm here because we're not even practicing, most of the time she can't deal with our two dogs and cat unless they're quietly lying on the bed or floor. I'm the one who takes the dogs out, walk them twice a day, play with them and the cat, change the litter, etc. That's absolutely unacceptable, and I know it would be much, much worse with a baby. I think deep down she knows that too.
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Post by JMX on Jun 15, 2016 11:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 15, 2016 11:29:37 GMT -5
Yay!! LEXUS46 is back! JMX IS WITH US TODAY!!
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Post by obobfla on Jun 15, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -5
obobfla , your story speaks very, very personally to me- thank you. We've been stuck at the same point in remodeling our house for several months now, what I haven't done has barely gotten done for a long time, and everything else is a nasty mess - the nightstand on her side of the bed is a sticky pile of empty Dr. Pepper cabs, Sprite bottles, and fast food containers. But she'll accuse me of being passive aggressive when I go to clean that all up when she's either not at home or just lying in bed watching TV. Passive aggressive? Sounds like she's blaming your cleaning instead of dealing with her own problems. Not a good sign. Since you are a deacon, you might want to see what counseling your church or denomination provides. I would also reach other to other clergy members to see what they would recommend. But you can't be passive if your wife is not seeking treatment. For me, that would be an immediate deal breaker. It's just as if she were an alcoholic. You don't enable it. The best thing you can do is leave her.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 15, 2016 11:38:47 GMT -5
Have you ever asked her: "Why when you initiate sex, you get it every time?" "When I initiate I get shut down?" Does she think this is fair? If you have discussed this what is her response. You are early enough in the marriage and this is so important, sex is important. Lay your cards on the table and let her know what you expect otherwise you can just be friends. I was in a 23 year marriage that I got shut down everytime. Meanwhile he never got refused. First ten years sexual frequency was about once a month. After that once a year. I was a fool. Don't make my mistake and waste decades of your life. We've had that conversation several times. The most recently was on our way back from an anniversary trip to the mountains, where we slept in separate beds in the hotel room the whole time. Her usual reason is that she has to feel close to be intimate, whereas she feels I'm wired in the opposite way (sort of, but I chose this screen name for very specific reasons. More on that in the sexually speaking forum later). She's also put on a good bit of weight since we started dating and isn't the least bit comfortable seeing herself even partially unclothed, much less me. And despite my completely sincere assurances that I'm still physically attracted to her and desire her, I believe she still feels very unattractive. She also tells me fairly regularly that my "energy" annoys her and makes her nervous and anxious, so unless we're sitting still on the couch or in bed, she can't be around me for very long. Yeah my honeymoon was in the mountains in winter, no tv or other distractions. It took 3 days before we had sex up there. I should have known the signs were there. So you've had the conversation and zero result. I can not echo DryCreek 's advice. My initial response was to try to fix and I think I wasted years with that philosophy but there were other factors there. I'm overweight and I can relate to how she feels and empathize with her but the fact that you reassure her that you are attracted still to her there is nothing more you can do to make her feel better about herself. My ex never did that so I probably stayed as long as I did because I thought if my own husband doesn't want me then who would. She has no reason to think that. Maybe suggest marriage counseling. My ex refused to go to marriage counseling three times during a 5 year period. A year later I told him that I would be seeking a divorce and it was too late. Don't get to that point. She will either work to improve things or NOT. This is what you need x,y and z she can either do this or NOT. If NOT then you are not compatible. Sex is the one thing that makes a relationship different from every other relationship we have. I have a lot of male friends and when I realized that my husband was just a friend I knew what I had to do for my future. Set a timetable for yourself and make it clear that she can either get on board your sex filled boat or your ship will be moving on. You have one life don't let the decades pass with the wrong person because you are being nice. Be nice to yourself. Also you mentioned the friends, family, community - from experience - they will think about your divorce for an entire minute and then they are back to their life and their own problems and guess what, most of them have a NORMAL sex life. That's the bottom line, it's not normal and you don't have to accept it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 11:55:05 GMT -5
Yeah my honeymoon was in the mountains in winter, no tv or other distractions. It took 3 days before we had sex up there. I should have known the signs were there. So you've had the conversation and zero result. I can not echo DryCreek 's advice. My initial response was to try to fix and I think I wasted years with that philosophy but there were other factors there. I'm overweight and I can relate to how she feels and empathize with her but the fact that you reassure her that you are attracted still to her there is nothing more you can do to make her feel better about herself. My ex never did that so I probably stayed as long as I did because I thought if my own husband doesn't want me then who would. She has no reason to think that. Maybe suggest marriage counseling. My ex refused to go to marriage counseling three times during a 5 year period. A year later I told him that I would be seeking a divorce and it was too late. Don't get to that point. She will either work to improve things or NOT. This is what you need x,y and z she can either do this or NOT. If NOT then you are not compatible. Sex is the one thing that makes a relationship different from every other relationship we have. I have a lot of male friends and when I realized that my husband was just a friend I knew what I had to do for my future. Set a timetable for yourself and make it clear that she can either get on board your sex filled boat or your ship will be moving on. You have one life don't let the decades pass with the wrong person because you are being nice. Be nice to yourself. Also you mentioned the friends, family, community - from experience - they will think about your divorce for an entire minute and then they are back to their life and their own problems and guess what, most of them have a NORMAL sex life. That's the bottom line, it's not normal and you don't have to accept it. bballgirl, I wonder if we were on the same honeymoon!! If we had known, we could have just snuck out of our rooms and left our new spouses in front of the TV and had our own honeymoon. But mine was in summer in Yellowstone/Jackson Hole, and I couldn't get her to fuck for the life of me. We did have lots of fun otherwise, but as I've said many times, I knew I was in trouble even before the wedding. I was a sap.
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