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Post by snowman12345 on Jun 16, 2016 23:52:16 GMT -5
bballgirl is right, as she most often is. The ONLY way to fix this is if BOTH people involved want to fix it. Only one can not get it done. So, you are down to the same three choices as the rest of us - leave, stay and suffer or stay and cheat. Waiting for something to change is futile. You can't cure her mental illness, but you can take care of yourself. Just my two cents.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 17, 2016 3:12:41 GMT -5
Your story is a hyper-compressed version of mine: stretch your story out over, say, 15 years, and it has the same arc as mine. A lot of us relate to the boiling frog syndrome. The pot starts out at a comfortable temperature... it's just a touch hotter than the last time we checked, but how can we complain about such a minor change? One day, decades later, we realize "Holy shit! This water is hot!" In contrast, cagedtiger has jumped into the hot springs at Yellowstone park. There's no subtlety or ambiguity there. And the prospects of sticking it out hoping it cools aren't promising. Yes, some people will say you didn't give it enough time. Bullshit. Smart people realize that when a marriage falls apart in weeks or months, it's because it was fatally flawed from the start, and somebody had the guts to kill it swiftly. (That's the time when you should be deliriously blissful, so if it can't survive that long there was a genuine issue.) And that's if you're concerned about what people think, which you shouldn't be. |
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Post by wewbwb on Jun 17, 2016 7:45:29 GMT -5
cagedtiger - I relate to what you are experiencing. I will make this perfectly clear so there is no miscommunication. I have a crystal ball and can see your future - it is called "my life" It will never ever get better. Get out now. You will try to be supportive and it will never be enough - you will say "this is temporary and it will pass" - so is your life. Your finances will become joined to level that it is cheaper to stay. You will feel guilty about wanting to leave - and forget about an Affair Partner if you are concerned about you communities opinion. You will be "cast out" - It won't matter that you needs haven't been meet in a year - or two or ten. YOU are at fault. Get. Out. Now. Period.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 17, 2016 7:59:28 GMT -5
We've had that conversation several times. The most recently was on our way back from an anniversary trip to the mountains, where we slept in separate beds in the hotel room the whole time. Her usual reason is that she has to feel close to be intimate, whereas she feels I'm wired in the opposite way (sort of, but I chose this screen name for very specific reasons. More on that in the sexually speaking forum later). She's also put on a good bit of weight since we started dating and isn't the least bit comfortable seeing herself even partially unclothed, much less me. And despite my completely sincere assurances that I'm still physically attracted to her and desire her, I believe she still feels very unattractive. She also tells me fairly regularly that my "energy" annoys her and makes her nervous and anxious, so unless we're sitting still on the couch or in bed, she can't be around me for very long. Yeah my honeymoon was in the mountains in winter, no tv or other distractions. It took 3 days before we had sex up there. I should have known the signs were there. So you've had the conversation and zero result. I can not echo DryCreek 's advice. My initial response was to try to fix and I think I wasted years with that philosophy but there were other factors there. I'm overweight and I can relate to how she feels and empathize with her but the fact that you reassure her that you are attracted still to her there is nothing more you can do to make her feel better about herself. My ex never did that so I probably stayed as long as I did because I thought if my own husband doesn't want me then who would. She has no reason to think that. Maybe suggest marriage counseling. My ex refused to go to marriage counseling three times during a 5 year period. A year later I told him that I would be seeking a divorce and it was too late. Don't get to that point. She will either work to improve things or NOT. This is what you need x,y and z she can either do this or NOT. If NOT then you are not compatible. Sex is the one thing that makes a relationship different from every other relationship we have. I have a lot of male friends and when I realized that my husband was just a friend I knew what I had to do for my future. Set a timetable for yourself and make it clear that she can either get on board your sex filled boat or your ship will be moving on. You have one life don't let the decades pass with the wrong person because you are being nice. Be nice to yourself. Also you mentioned the friends, family, community - from experience - they will think about your divorce for an entire minute and then they are back to their life and their own problems and guess what, most of them have a NORMAL sex life. That's the bottom line, it's not normal and you don't have to accept it. - I just reread this post and it should have said that I can not echo your advice ENOUGH. Sorry about that, I hope you knew what I meant anyway! Said very apologetically.  |
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Post by wewbwb on Jun 17, 2016 8:37:37 GMT -5
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 20, 2016 13:18:57 GMT -5
That is what is called a " a-ha moment" . We all get those, especially in a SM. They continue for the rest of your life. You will read where many of us relate to our spouses upbringing, family background, our own families and background. All warning signs to take into account as we progress into our next relationships. Or how we handle the future with our spouse. Yeah... I don't know why I didn't think about that sooner. I'm going to my parents house this weekend for Father's Day, and I know they already have time set aside for a long, frank talk with me- they've known about my wife's medical stuff for a while, and I think they've sensed things are going as well as it previously seemed (they've stopped asking about when they're getting grandchildren); I'm also planning on meeting with one of my best friends, our former minister and one of the officiants at our wedding, who also happens to be recently divorced (under somewhat similar circumstances). I'll keep you all posted on what happens with those conversations. How did the weekend visit go with family? Any new revelations, ideas, or perspective given to you since you joined this forum? Anything helpful happen? |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 21, 2016 9:54:59 GMT -5
The weekend was just what the doctor ordered. Or what the doctor will probably order, after a few therapy sessions.
My parents live on a small pond, and their house is full of huge windows and vaulted ceilings. I've always been a heliophile, but I didn't realize until I got there just how deeply the constant dark and drawn shades in my home had been affecting me. Just sitting outside on the sunlit patio each morning with a cup of coffee, listening to the sounds of the birds on the pond, was incredibly therapeutic, and I quickly felt like a huge weight was coming off my shoulders.
As for talking with my parents, I feel like that went really well too. They were also baffled by her refusing to consider counseling, but are of course supportive of me find on my own, and hopeful that she might reconsider or my counselor might be able to offer better advice.
I think the most telling things were what they didn't say- historically, both my parents have dropped grandchild hints hot and heavy any time I'm around. That wasn't the case this trip. Further, when a sideways reference about future children came out, it was about *me* someday having kids, not my wife and me.
They both separately told me, repeatedly, told me to come down any time I need a respite (they're only about 2.5 hours from where I live), and that they would always be proud of me no matter what happened.
Overall, I got the sense that they're beginning to brace themselves for the idea down the road that we might not be together forever, and would be OK with that.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 21, 2016 10:14:32 GMT -5
cagedtiger - even with limited info, your parents probably have a more objective view and see where this is headed. As a parent, it's a precarious place - you know where it's headed, you know what should be done, but giving directed advice is hazardous. If they take a stance against your marriage and you decide not to divorce, they've polarized themselves against its success. And if they're observant and sympathetic, they probably won't push you to force a bad fit. Which leaves them in a position of "being supportive". Biting their tongues and hoping you reach the right conclusion. Odds are, they know the score, and they have an opinion.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 21, 2016 10:18:20 GMT -5
cagedtiger - even with limited info, your parents probably have a more objective view and see where this is headed. As a parent, it's a precarious place - you know where it's headed, you know what should be done, but giving directed advice is hazardous. If they take a stance against your marriage and you decide not to divorce, they've polarized themselves against its success. And if they're observant and sympathetic, they probably won't push you to force a bad fit. Which leaves them in a position of "being supportive". Biting their tongues and hoping you reach the right conclusion. Odds are, they know the score, and they have an opinion. I think you're right. And I'm sure they've talked about this at great length before I even got into town on Friday. I mean, they've seen their daughter in law exactly once since the wedding, while we've visited my mother in law at least four times in that same span of time. |
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Post by itsjustus on Jun 21, 2016 14:23:45 GMT -5
Suggestions. #1 - keep your dick in your trousers as this point. "If" this is heading south (as it certainly looks to be) you do not want things to be any more complicated than they already are. So under no circumstances should you add a kid into this dysfunctional situation. - #2 - in regard to her assorted issues, *you* can do nothing about them. They are her issues and only she can ultimately address them. What you can be, is supportive of any efforts she is making, and that's it. And at present there appears to be no effort that you can be supportive of. - #3 - your "time line" of giving it a year. There is no time like the present to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction and establish how a divorce would shake out for you. And to put together an exit strategy and knock it in to do-able shape. And to shore up your support network. Whether you would actually enact such a plan now (or in 12 months time) is another matter entirely, but there is nothing stopping you planning for this scenario. If it turns out that you end up with an exit strategy in your pocket that you don't need, you lose nothing. If on the other hand it emerges that you DO need an exit strategy, and you haven't got one, a calamitous blow up looms in your future. - What you are in control of here - - *You* and your actions. For example, seeing a lawyer et al to prepare for what looks like the end of the road. - What you are NOT in control of here - - Your missus' and her actions. For example, her choice to halt her therapy et al, and to continue her avoidant actions. - It's a hard old world out there Brother cagedtiger. She owns her choice to behave as she does, and she will own the end consequences of that choice that has run the deal in to the ditch. And you own your choice to remain in the dynamic thus far, and you will own the end consequences of that choice. - Hard and harsh choices loom. Choice is a bitch, but no-one gets a pass on it. - I wish you strength and objectivity as you wrestle with this dilemma. . I read your post with heartbreak. How your situation is so difficult, with so much pain for you, while you show your love for her. But, I have to admit, while I read your first post, I skimmed thru the other's reply's...all of them great advice, all of them heartfelt with their own experiences, giving you guidance and a view into their lives of what they have or are dealing with that you could apply to your situation. It's what this place is all about..... I understand a bit of what your experiencing. My ex needed counseling in my opinion. She didn't agree, and I found that unacceptable. But I skimmed...honestly, waiting for Baz to reply. Because I know what my first thought was in reading your post. What I would advise would be the advice that he has almost single highhandedly invented for ILIASM. The one word that I heart-breakingly think applies to your pain and issue. Choice. Your wife is making a choice. She believes that the med's she's taking are enough for her to live the life she's satisfied with. She has told you that she doesn't feel that counseling is worth the effort. She has made that choice. I also see that she made the choice to tell you in a text, exactly what her vision of a relationship, a marriage, is like. I want someone I can share my entire life with who will leave me alone most of the time.
As other's noted, that is a fantastic thing she's just done. She's outlined what she want's, what she's looking for, and what she will accept. She's told you what she wants from you. With all of these facts about her assembled, IMHO, it really leaves a very simple answer. The answer that Baz outlined so well..... What is your choice? |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 27, 2016 16:09:32 GMT -5
First appointment with my counselor is scheduled for later this week!
On a related note, I went out Saturday night with several of my closest friends, most of whom are divorced (not sure if that's a veteran thing, or a "we're all assholes" thing), and had the whole, "hey guys, this is why half of you haven't seen my wife in over a year, and why half of you haven't met her at all" talk. They listened to me unload, offered a lot of great insight and support, then got me incredibly drunk, which surprise surprise, I needed.
I'm grabbing dinner with a friend later this week who was on the other side of where I am now, and he wanted to give some insights as to what finally made a difference.
So all in all, a bit of positive progress.
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Post by baza on Jun 27, 2016 18:42:39 GMT -5
Never underestimate the theraputic value of a gutful of grog with a few mates.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 27, 2016 18:51:30 GMT -5
Never underestimate the theraputic value of a gutful of grog with a few mates. I never do. I just hadn't trusted myself to get completely blotto out of a fear of what I might say. |
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 27, 2016 19:03:25 GMT -5
Excellent! I wish I had confided in more people when I was in your boat and I wish more people in SMs did. And keep having fun! It will just highlight the contrast between fun and your life at home.  |
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Post by baza on Jun 27, 2016 19:09:28 GMT -5
cagedtigerI invite you to go on a flight of fancy. Imagine a primary adult sexual relationship, where you did not even have the slightest fear about what you might say, or any fear about what the other person might say. How cool would that be.
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