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Post by DryCreek on Jun 15, 2016 21:56:21 GMT -5
cagedtiger, 1) The picture you paint in this short thread makes one thing very clear: the two of you are incompatible in several fundamental areas. Intimacy, yes. Interpersonal communication. Active lifestyle. It really sounds like you're wanting a round peg to fit in a square hole. 2) How will waiting another year be any different than comparing today to a year ago? You will be older, more water will have passed under the bridge, but why do you expect the next 12 months to improve when it hasn't in the last 12 months? What's remarkably different? And just how far do things have to improve before they're good enough? We are often placated by baby steps but overlook that the goal is miles away. 3) If you're seeking a therapist, it's for you, not her. A therapist cannot help you fix her; they can only help you cope with who she is. Been there, wasted years; my goal is not to cope with a lousy deal. Think hard about how you got to where you are. This is something a therapist *can* help you with. It won't help the current situation, but it's important to understand your own motivations, and what drew you to someone who you really don't seem to be compatible with. It will be essential for your next relationship, or you're doomed to repeat history. E.g., you might be a "fixer" or a strategist - a problem-solver or visionary who optimistically sees the "potential" in people and things. What they could become if repaired or developed. Or mentally see broken things as an intellectual problem / puzzle to solve. I am this way, and it's tough to manage the tendencies. The problem is, you're not a shrink - and she is supposed to be your life partner, not a patient / lifelong project. DC
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 22:17:16 GMT -5
Seeing a therapist is the best first step you can take for yourself.
My ex had some health problems (mental and physical) but he would not be persistent about doing his part to solve them. I tried to help him as much as I could (also not easy to do, since he would not be open to me) - but there is a certain point at which you cannot fix another person; at that point, they have to do some of it. And he didn't.
I guess he didn't consider the decline in our relationship to be a good enough reason to try to change his behavior.
Even if your wife is so ill that she can't really make that decision - this whole situation is an unfair burden for you.
You will not be able to go on forever carrying such a large share of the work of building this relationship.
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Post by baza on Jun 15, 2016 23:48:34 GMT -5
Suggestions.
#1 - keep your dick in your trousers as this point. "If" this is heading south (as it certainly looks to be) you do not want things to be any more complicated than they already are. So under no circumstances should you add a kid into this dysfunctional situation.
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#2 - in regard to her assorted issues, *you* can do nothing about them. They are her issues and only she can ultimately address them. What you can be, is supportive of any efforts she is making, and that's it. And at present there appears to be no effort that you can be supportive of.
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#3 - your "time line" of giving it a year.
There is no time like the present to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction and establish how a divorce would shake out for you. And to put together an exit strategy and knock it in to do-able shape. And to shore up your support network.
Whether you would actually enact such a plan now (or in 12 months time) is another matter entirely, but there is nothing stopping you planning for this scenario.
If it turns out that you end up with an exit strategy in your pocket that you don't need, you lose nothing.
If on the other hand it emerges that you DO need an exit strategy, and you haven't got one, a calamitous blow up looms in your future.
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What you are in control of here - -
*You* and your actions. For example, seeing a lawyer et al to prepare for what looks like the end of the road.
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What you are NOT in control of here - -
Your missus' and her actions. For example, her choice to halt her therapy et al, and to continue her avoidant actions.
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It's a hard old world out there Brother cagedtiger.
She owns her choice to behave as she does, and she will own the end consequences of that choice that has run the deal in to the ditch.
And you own your choice to remain in the dynamic thus far, and you will own the end consequences of that choice.
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Hard and harsh choices loom.
Choice is a bitch, but no-one gets a pass on it.
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I wish you strength and objectivity as you wrestle with this dilemma.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 16, 2016 5:24:34 GMT -5
Do you have a link to the post? I can't find him in the users when I searched. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 16, 2016 9:21:28 GMT -5
Okay, forgive me, I gotta ask ... Who/What initiated this marriage? That would be mostly me. A bit of background for context: I remember fairly early on in our dating relationship (~4 months) realizing, "I'm either going to marry this girl, or completely break her heart." A good bit of the marriage came about with that theme in mind- and a bit of lingering guilt in my part of the last time I'd unintentionally broken a girl's heart. When we started dating, she was this daring, outgoing, energetic, affectionate badass. That slowly started to fade, bit by bit, as she sank into the depression. There's an old lie in the military: "it'll get better after ____." Of course, the rub is that something else, usually worse, always comes along right after _____, and then your chain of command tells you it'll get better after... I'm sure you get the picture. Anyway, I fell hard into that trap: "it'll get better after we get married, and she won't feel guilty any more about us living together and unmarried, and I'll get the daring badass back!" Well, a year later, and here we are... |
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Post by iceman on Jun 16, 2016 9:32:09 GMT -5
Have you ever asked her: "Why when you initiate sex, you get it every time?" "When I initiate I get shut down?" Does she think this is fair? If you have discussed this what is her response. You are early enough in the marriage and this is so important, sex is important. Lay your cards on the table and let her know what you expect otherwise you can just be friends. I was in a 23 year marriage that I got shut down everytime. Meanwhile he never got refused. First ten years sexual frequency was about once a month. After that once a year. I was a fool. Don't make my mistake and waste decades of your life. Completely agree. You need to address this now. Waiting will only make it worse. One of my many regrets about my marriage, the biggest being marrying at all, is that I was too passive early on when things started going south sexually. I didn't want to push and thought things would eventually resolve themselves. What a fool I was!!! (Still am a fool about many things I suspect) Once habits are ingrained it's very hard to change things. |
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Post by LITW on Jun 16, 2016 9:33:06 GMT -5
Hmm .... after seeing that pic she sent you, I have to wonder why she would even want to get married in the first place. How can you share your life with someone who you are not interacting with? strange ... I like this one, it is one of the many frustrations I am dealing with:  |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 16, 2016 10:06:10 GMT -5
Have you ever asked her: "Why when you initiate sex, you get it every time?" "When I initiate I get shut down?" Does she think this is fair? If you have discussed this what is her response. You are early enough in the marriage and this is so important, sex is important. Lay your cards on the table and let her know what you expect otherwise you can just be friends. I was in a 23 year marriage that I got shut down everytime. Meanwhile he never got refused. First ten years sexual frequency was about once a month. After that once a year. I was a fool. Don't make my mistake and waste decades of your life. Completely agree. You need to address this now. Waiting will only make it worse. One of my many regrets about my marriage, the biggest being marrying at all, is that I was too passive early on when things started going south sexually. I didn't want to push and thought things would eventually resolve themselves. What a fool I was!!! (Still am a fool about many things I suspect) Once habits are ingrained it's very hard to change things. Exactly iceman! Your words "I was too passive" resonate with me. I was too passive as well and believed manipulative excuses so there was the fool factor there too. At the end of our marriage my husband complained to another couple we were out to dinner with that I didn't stick up for him when one of the bball moms told him off. Turns out it was just a misunderstanding that he blew out of proportion. But at the dinner I told him "I'm not a confrontational person I'm very passive, how do you think we stayed together this long?" To which he didn't respond. The moral of the story is cagedtiger When there are things in a relationship you don't like, be agressive to seek change if not they will take advantage of our kindness. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 16, 2016 10:18:40 GMT -5
That didn't work too well before I quit trying about 7-8 months ago: forward attempts on my part to initiate physical contact were met by her pushing away from me, saying I was being too aggressive and she didn't like it, and she'd be more distant for longer afterwards. Oh, and a lot of her saying I was "weird" for being so physically "needy" (her words).
It's been a similar reaction when I tell her we're going to talk about this, except with tears, the same accusations that I'm not being happy enough with the improvements she has made, and that I'm not being patient enough with her.
Probably 7-8 months ago, she asked me if I wanted to set a deadline, and if things didn't improve by then, we'd look at annulment or divorce. I probably should have said yes to that.
Hindsight, and all that.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 16, 2016 10:45:06 GMT -5
That didn't work too well before I quit trying about 7-8 months ago: forward attempts on my part to initiate physical contact were met by her pushing away from me, saying I was being too aggressive and she didn't like it, and she'd be more distant for longer afterwards. Oh, and a lot of her saying I was "weird" for being so physically "needy" (her words). It's been a similar reaction when I tell her we're going to talk about this, except with tears, the same accusations that I'm not being happy enough with the improvements she has made, and that I'm not being patient enough with her. Probably 7-8 months ago, she asked me if I wanted to set a deadline, and if things didn't improve by then, we'd look at annulment or divorce. I probably should have said yes to that. Hindsight, and all that. By agressive I meant with communicating and expressing that a lack of consistent enthusiastic sex is unacceptable. As far as you probably should have said yes, it's never too late. You can bring it up - "Do you remember when you asked me about an annulment if things don't improve? Well they haven't improved and if they don't then I will want an annulment". You can springboard off of conversations from the past to initiate a conversation. I did that when I said I wanted a divorce, "a year ago we said we were going to work on it and neither one of us has and I don't want to be married anymore". Seek what you want to make your life happy. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 16, 2016 20:36:27 GMT -5
You know, I was just reminded of something else that I hadn't thought about for a long, long time that I should have included in my original post.
Before we started dating, my wife had been single, totally celibate, and happily alone with her cats and her dog for about 7 years. I didn't think that was going to be that big of a deal when we started dating, but it probably has...
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 16, 2016 20:52:55 GMT -5
You know, I was just reminded of something else that I hadn't thought about for a long, long time that I should have included in my original post. Before we started dating, my wife had been single, totally celibate, and happily alone with her cats and her dog for about 7 years. I didn't think that was going to be that big of a deal when we started dating, but it probably has... That is what is called a " a-ha moment" . We all get those, especially in a SM. They continue for the rest of your life. You will read where many of us relate to our spouses upbringing, family background, our own families and background. All warning signs to take into account as we progress into our next relationships. Or how we handle the future with our spouse. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jun 16, 2016 21:00:01 GMT -5
You know, I was just reminded of something else that I hadn't thought about for a long, long time that I should have included in my original post. Before we started dating, my wife had been single, totally celibate, and happily alone with her cats and her dog for about 7 years. I didn't think that was going to be that big of a deal when we started dating, but it probably has... That is what is called a " a-ha moment" . We all get those, especially in a SM. They continue for the rest of your life. You will read where many of us relate to our spouses upbringing, family background, our own families and background. All warning signs to take into account as we progress into our next relationships. Or how we handle the future with our spouse. Yeah... I don't know why I didn't think about that sooner. I'm going to my parents house this weekend for Father's Day, and I know they already have time set aside for a long, frank talk with me- they've known about my wife's medical stuff for a while, and I think they've sensed things are going as well as it previously seemed (they've stopped asking about when they're getting grandchildren); I'm also planning on meeting with one of my best friends, our former minister and one of the officiants at our wedding, who also happens to be recently divorced (under somewhat similar circumstances). I'll keep you all posted on what happens with those conversations. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 16, 2016 22:40:30 GMT -5
Has anybody else dealt with this sort of situation? Did it get better, and if so, what made the difference? If not, when did you know it was time to leave? Welcome. And: my condolences for being a new member of The Club No One Wants To Belong To. Your story is a hyper-compressed version of mine: stretch your story out over, say, 15 years, and it has the same arc as mine. My wife's depressions, anxieties, and body image issues were always latent within her, but after several kids and a sort of "mid-life doldrums", they lead to decreasing sex and intimacy. Add in the similarity: my wife is an introvert, I'm an extrovert. Any fix on the horizon? For her depression and anxieties: counseling and meds are helping. For the sexual interest mismatch and the extroversion/introversion mismatch? Sorry, no pill invented for that, yet. If you want out now, you have all the reasons to call it "done" right now. If you want to give her a bit of time, be as supportive as possible, but DECIDE some specific expectations, tell them to her, and act on them. It is even OK to change them if you get new info... but have specific expectations. Here is the one message that it took me 27 years into my marriage to "get": IT IS REASONABLE TO WANT A MUTUALLY FULFILLING SEX LIFE WITH YOUR SPOUSE. So much of my religious upbringing made me feel BAD about that... and still make me feel BAD for considering a divorce for the lack of a sex life. But I signed up for monogamy... not NON-ogamy! |
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Post by Dan on Jun 16, 2016 22:44:05 GMT -5
Our honeymoon was in Iceland in May... One of my best friends was also there ...; he and his wife were doing all the things that my wife and I had talked about doing, that she'd found herself unable to go out and do. But then, that's pretty much their marriage in general. Does your wife consider that she has agoraphobia? There are support groups for that, and I'm sure a therapist could help diagnose it and give her some coping skills. Not sure it will save your marriage, but it might make her better able to cope, whether or not you are part of her life. |
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