Post by forestsoul on Nov 7, 2016 14:19:40 GMT -5
So many shared experiences and emotions on this forum, my story might sound like any other. I still have some hope.
I've been asking myself the all-important question: is everything else in our marriage great, if only for the lack of sex? Well nothing is ever perfect, and couples can experience rough times, but yes, other aspects of our marriage are not deal-breakers.
But little cracks in a marriage become gaping holes when there is no intimacy and bonding. That's where I am at.
Things WERE great. It makes me wonder, is this just a rough patch or is this how it is going to be?
Our 5-year anniversary is Dec 2016. I feel it important to share a little back story. This may be a long post. You may need snacks to make it through
----
When I met my wife, I was in a good, confident place. I had a previous 6-year relationship that had ended a year prior. In that previous relationship, I had experienced a great partner in sex. There was openness, raw passion, desire, and all my sexual needs (and hers) were met fully. But there were other compatibility issues that arose, forcing us to part.
I left that relationship feeling hopeful of finding that same sexual compatibility, but with all the rest too.
I met my wife through online dating 6 years ago. At this point I had a firmer grasp on who it was I wanted to be with. In my previous relationship, the sex was great, but the rest was woefully lacking. (Strange how the tables have turned.)
By using online dating, a list of wants, desires, must-haves and don't-wants is formed. My wife had her list, and I had mine. We could examine this list and decide if we wanted to give it a try. We both pounced.
After great phone conversations, then a hot and steamy meeting, our dating began in earnest. She was (and is) beautiful, smart, a geek like me, was full of life, we loved the same things, etc. It was great. Sex happened soon after without awkwardness, and it was amazing and open. I felt I had found my perfect someone.
She got pregnant 6 months after we met. We had already decided we both wanted kids and had talked marriage, but Boy #1 was a happy accident.
With limited finances at the time and growing worries for our immediate financial future, we got married without a huge ceremony. It wasn't perfect, but we were both happy. We are a greatly pragmatic couple, something we both love about each other.
Though finances were tight, I had a stable job that would lead to a much larger salary within 5 years. I still have that job now and plan to until retirement. There is stability and finances are good now. Those stresses are subsiding. My job takes me away from home almost half the month, every month. That is hard.
Things changed nearing Boy #1's birth. She had a panic attack over feeling exposed and prodded at when we did a hospital visit. She started to cover up her body more, and she started to have feelings of shame. I was worried and we worked through it, or so I thought. More on that later.
Boy #1 was born, and times were tough. My wife didn't have a lot of support and had a rough time becoming an instant SAHM. She had been a massage therapist, but quit when Boy #1 was on the way. It was something she wanted to do anyway because it was taking a toll on her physically. But she had wanted to do something else... then baby.
She expressed feelings of being forced into motherhood too quickly. I fully understood, was as supportive as I could be, but I had to work and the baby was all-consuming in our lives. We both didn't know how to help ourselves and we trudged onward.
Her sexual desire at that point disappeared. Her libido was gone. Understandably so, she was exhausted and stressed. I was upset, but the 'why?' was answered with 'because baby.' Sounded fair enough. I didn't like it, but was hopeful for a brighter future.
Sex changed after Boy #1. She finally shared her feelings of shame with me. It included her not allowing me to see her naked. She felt watched and unsafe, even with me. Showers together have not happened since. When sex happens she wears a top. We have only had missionary sex under covers since.
At the time, we both thought it would pass. Young baby, her on her own a lot, tight finances; the stresses were high. She thought her shame would subside as well. I didn't understand the depth of it at the time and brushed my worries aside.
My libido did not hiccup through all this. My desire was high. I found her beautiful and told her so often. I was as understanding as I could be at the time. Frustrated, but understanding and supportive.
I would let her sleep when I was home, would do the night feedings with bottle, clean the house, do all the finances; I really stepped up and took a large load and I'm very proud of that. My wife says I was amazing. We felt we were battling things together. Hope remained.
Though she still had these unresolved shame issues (why, she couldn't say), Boy #2 was made during one of the rare times we had sex. At 17 months apart, our two Boys created a huge strain on us. But we battled it together. I put my desires aside thinking, 'once the boys get a bit older, I have hope things will get better.'
The birth of Boy #2 over three years ago is the last time I saw my wife naked. I joke that the last time I saw her vagina, a baby was coming out of it.
She showers alone with a locked door (I give her all the privacy she feels she needs). She sleeps in shirt and underwear; very normal, but she feels uncomfortable for me to be in the room when she changes so I give her privacy by turning away.
There are rules that have developed regarding any intimate encounters we may have:
- no makeout kissing; pecks only
- no seeing her naked
- hugging good
- massage good (for her only)
- cuddling very limited
- missionary sex only
- no touching her chest
- no oral anything
- no foreplay allowed
We have sex once every couple months. We will be in bed and she will say, "Maybe we should have sex tonight. Let's do this. Okay, let's go."
She will remove her underwear under covers. I will put on a condom with lube. I will go under covers, missionary. There is no passion, no foreplay, but she will be playful. She will be lighthearted and will try to make a joke or something to cut the tension. I cannot let my hands wander and touch her body.
(At times I have rejected her at this moment, feeling a desire for passion, not giggly teenage awkwardness. That ends with her being upset and me being resentful and feeling hopeless. It doesn't help.)
It is not a moment where my desires and feelings can be expressed. I have to play along on the stage she has set up for us. But the sex is enjoyable. She reaches orgasm easily in this way. There is a glimmer of passion, even in this sterile but intimate environment. She says, 'we should do this more often!'
She tells me that when we start having sex it feels good and she enjoys it. We share a moment of contentment and togetherness.
Things become nice between us after that. We feel good. We treat each other in a loving manner. Weeks pass, sex doesn't happen. Resentment builds. Negative thoughts return... 'the cycle' starts.
I have acted like a pouty teenager in the past and my wife has called me on that behavior. It took some introspection to realize that I had some work to do on myself. I have improved greatly and I don't make snide, disrespectful remarks anymore. I don't allow dark thoughts to manifest into rude behaviour. 'I feel all growed up now!'
But the cycle starts after so many sexless nights... I feel resentment. I feel rejection. My self-esteem starts to suffer. It becomes harder and harder to lay next to someone you love and desire at night, and just turn over and go to sleep. I feel no control over my sexuality.
Some nights I can't sleep next to her. I sometimes leave the room to sleep in the boys' room. I can calm my thoughts and get some rest not being next to her.
I learned how to express to her how the constant rejection made me feel. She sympathizes, feels bad for not being there for me and assures me things will improve; she needs some time to recoup from the constant needs of our boys.
I sympathized with that. She expresses feeling pressured. We bond emotionally. Things are nice, and then we have sex.
Then nothing for a week. Two weeks. A month.
I try to hold on to that sympathy I feel for her and give her space. I think, 'maybe we are turning a corner and she just needs me to be more compassionate.'
That compassion doesn't last when rejection begins again. Laying in bed, having had no conversations about sex so as to not pressure her the previous weeks, resentment starts again.
My thoughts swirl down and down... 'If I don't express my desires, will this become the new norm? She is happier, and that happiness is supposed to lead to more intimacy, but it isn't. I can't live like this. She is rejecting me constantly and I feel so alone beside her. I don't want this to continue. I'm angry. I'm stuck. Who did I marry? Is this what our sex life is going to be like now?'
So, I withdraw from her. I get emotionally defensive. I don't hug, I don't open up emotionally, I just do what needs to be done around the house and with the kids, and no more. I go to bed before her. I become distant.
What happens? A blowup. We have an emotion-filled explosion. She feels pressure, I feel rejection, she has no desire, I masturbate 3 times a day, she wants me to be more compassionate, I feel I was being compassionate by giving her space.... Ugh.
Well, that cycle is the past 3 years. I read a LOT, calm myself down from thinking the worst, give myself renewed hope, and move forward. I realize that I cannot bring anger into the situation. Anger will lead to separation if I allow it to take over.
This past year, I made a HUGE effort to stop that cycle. When I felt resentment building, I remembered her saying that if only she didn't have the pressure of sex, and felt safe and loved, her desire might return. I was determined to fulfil that change she needed in me
I did my best to give her that loving space. And it was genuine. I was more understanding and compassionate. I let hope stay ever-present. 7 months passed and there was no change to the situation.
That was this past spring/summer. When I confronted her after all that time of making no sexual advancements at night, after holding back and not 'burdening her' with my desires, and she still didn't want sex, there was a blowup.
She said, 'I knew the other shoe would drop. I was waiting for it to happen!'
I replied, 'Well ya, I will not accept this as normal. I am not happy. I'm miserable. My self-esteem is suffering. I feel rejected and trapped. You are happy with things this way, and I am in hell.'
We shout and get out our raw feelings and talk it through. We are hugging at the end of it all. I have hope, because she truly does express sympathy. She says she doesn't want this SM either, but doesn't know why she has no libido or desire. The cycle continues, albeit changed in some way.
Our boys are now 4.5 and 3. One is full-time school, the other part-time daycare. Our freedoms are beginning to return. Sleep can be had. My wife and I see things getting easier. But the SM remains.
We talk through a lot of it, but there remains a disconnect to our mutual understanding of each others state of minds.
Remember her feelings of shame? I didn't understand them and she couldn't elaborate at the time.
About a year ago, she opened up to say that she believes there was some kind of childhood trauma that is causing feelings of shame. She went to a strict girls-only catholic school with nuns in her early years and thinks her shame stems from there somehow.
She started to see a councillor at that time, but she has said there hasn't been much progress since.
I have seen a councillor, we have gone together, she has seen a trauma councillor, and she expresses willingness to work through her feelings of shame.
So. I have hope. We have hope. But I am still in a SM. Bring up my desires? Not going to happen in this kind of environment, so I wait. Things should improve if we work on it, I tell myself.
We have a greater understanding of our corresponding emotions. I tell her how I'm feeling. We talk a lot. I try to mitigate resentment and think and act positively. I don't always succeed.
Our counsellor says we are working on a big puzzle. Right now, we are finding the edges and piecing them together. It's the easy stuff. But then we will have to get to the inner part of the puzzle, the hard work, and not give up.
I have had some real moments of despair. We have had some huge blowups. But we have advanced our mutual emotional understanding. We have moved to a higher emotional level. But a SM this remains.
Things could improve, or not. I feel she is worth fighting for, but I know I cannot stay forever in this type of relationship.
So, if anyone has read this far (thank you for listening), what are your thoughts? Do I hope?
I've been asking myself the all-important question: is everything else in our marriage great, if only for the lack of sex? Well nothing is ever perfect, and couples can experience rough times, but yes, other aspects of our marriage are not deal-breakers.
But little cracks in a marriage become gaping holes when there is no intimacy and bonding. That's where I am at.
Things WERE great. It makes me wonder, is this just a rough patch or is this how it is going to be?
Our 5-year anniversary is Dec 2016. I feel it important to share a little back story. This may be a long post. You may need snacks to make it through
----
When I met my wife, I was in a good, confident place. I had a previous 6-year relationship that had ended a year prior. In that previous relationship, I had experienced a great partner in sex. There was openness, raw passion, desire, and all my sexual needs (and hers) were met fully. But there were other compatibility issues that arose, forcing us to part.
I left that relationship feeling hopeful of finding that same sexual compatibility, but with all the rest too.
I met my wife through online dating 6 years ago. At this point I had a firmer grasp on who it was I wanted to be with. In my previous relationship, the sex was great, but the rest was woefully lacking. (Strange how the tables have turned.)
By using online dating, a list of wants, desires, must-haves and don't-wants is formed. My wife had her list, and I had mine. We could examine this list and decide if we wanted to give it a try. We both pounced.
After great phone conversations, then a hot and steamy meeting, our dating began in earnest. She was (and is) beautiful, smart, a geek like me, was full of life, we loved the same things, etc. It was great. Sex happened soon after without awkwardness, and it was amazing and open. I felt I had found my perfect someone.
She got pregnant 6 months after we met. We had already decided we both wanted kids and had talked marriage, but Boy #1 was a happy accident.
With limited finances at the time and growing worries for our immediate financial future, we got married without a huge ceremony. It wasn't perfect, but we were both happy. We are a greatly pragmatic couple, something we both love about each other.
Though finances were tight, I had a stable job that would lead to a much larger salary within 5 years. I still have that job now and plan to until retirement. There is stability and finances are good now. Those stresses are subsiding. My job takes me away from home almost half the month, every month. That is hard.
Things changed nearing Boy #1's birth. She had a panic attack over feeling exposed and prodded at when we did a hospital visit. She started to cover up her body more, and she started to have feelings of shame. I was worried and we worked through it, or so I thought. More on that later.
Boy #1 was born, and times were tough. My wife didn't have a lot of support and had a rough time becoming an instant SAHM. She had been a massage therapist, but quit when Boy #1 was on the way. It was something she wanted to do anyway because it was taking a toll on her physically. But she had wanted to do something else... then baby.
She expressed feelings of being forced into motherhood too quickly. I fully understood, was as supportive as I could be, but I had to work and the baby was all-consuming in our lives. We both didn't know how to help ourselves and we trudged onward.
Her sexual desire at that point disappeared. Her libido was gone. Understandably so, she was exhausted and stressed. I was upset, but the 'why?' was answered with 'because baby.' Sounded fair enough. I didn't like it, but was hopeful for a brighter future.
Sex changed after Boy #1. She finally shared her feelings of shame with me. It included her not allowing me to see her naked. She felt watched and unsafe, even with me. Showers together have not happened since. When sex happens she wears a top. We have only had missionary sex under covers since.
At the time, we both thought it would pass. Young baby, her on her own a lot, tight finances; the stresses were high. She thought her shame would subside as well. I didn't understand the depth of it at the time and brushed my worries aside.
My libido did not hiccup through all this. My desire was high. I found her beautiful and told her so often. I was as understanding as I could be at the time. Frustrated, but understanding and supportive.
I would let her sleep when I was home, would do the night feedings with bottle, clean the house, do all the finances; I really stepped up and took a large load and I'm very proud of that. My wife says I was amazing. We felt we were battling things together. Hope remained.
Though she still had these unresolved shame issues (why, she couldn't say), Boy #2 was made during one of the rare times we had sex. At 17 months apart, our two Boys created a huge strain on us. But we battled it together. I put my desires aside thinking, 'once the boys get a bit older, I have hope things will get better.'
The birth of Boy #2 over three years ago is the last time I saw my wife naked. I joke that the last time I saw her vagina, a baby was coming out of it.
She showers alone with a locked door (I give her all the privacy she feels she needs). She sleeps in shirt and underwear; very normal, but she feels uncomfortable for me to be in the room when she changes so I give her privacy by turning away.
There are rules that have developed regarding any intimate encounters we may have:
- no makeout kissing; pecks only
- no seeing her naked
- hugging good
- massage good (for her only)
- cuddling very limited
- missionary sex only
- no touching her chest
- no oral anything
- no foreplay allowed
We have sex once every couple months. We will be in bed and she will say, "Maybe we should have sex tonight. Let's do this. Okay, let's go."
She will remove her underwear under covers. I will put on a condom with lube. I will go under covers, missionary. There is no passion, no foreplay, but she will be playful. She will be lighthearted and will try to make a joke or something to cut the tension. I cannot let my hands wander and touch her body.
(At times I have rejected her at this moment, feeling a desire for passion, not giggly teenage awkwardness. That ends with her being upset and me being resentful and feeling hopeless. It doesn't help.)
It is not a moment where my desires and feelings can be expressed. I have to play along on the stage she has set up for us. But the sex is enjoyable. She reaches orgasm easily in this way. There is a glimmer of passion, even in this sterile but intimate environment. She says, 'we should do this more often!'
She tells me that when we start having sex it feels good and she enjoys it. We share a moment of contentment and togetherness.
Things become nice between us after that. We feel good. We treat each other in a loving manner. Weeks pass, sex doesn't happen. Resentment builds. Negative thoughts return... 'the cycle' starts.
I have acted like a pouty teenager in the past and my wife has called me on that behavior. It took some introspection to realize that I had some work to do on myself. I have improved greatly and I don't make snide, disrespectful remarks anymore. I don't allow dark thoughts to manifest into rude behaviour. 'I feel all growed up now!'
But the cycle starts after so many sexless nights... I feel resentment. I feel rejection. My self-esteem starts to suffer. It becomes harder and harder to lay next to someone you love and desire at night, and just turn over and go to sleep. I feel no control over my sexuality.
Some nights I can't sleep next to her. I sometimes leave the room to sleep in the boys' room. I can calm my thoughts and get some rest not being next to her.
I learned how to express to her how the constant rejection made me feel. She sympathizes, feels bad for not being there for me and assures me things will improve; she needs some time to recoup from the constant needs of our boys.
I sympathized with that. She expresses feeling pressured. We bond emotionally. Things are nice, and then we have sex.
Then nothing for a week. Two weeks. A month.
I try to hold on to that sympathy I feel for her and give her space. I think, 'maybe we are turning a corner and she just needs me to be more compassionate.'
That compassion doesn't last when rejection begins again. Laying in bed, having had no conversations about sex so as to not pressure her the previous weeks, resentment starts again.
My thoughts swirl down and down... 'If I don't express my desires, will this become the new norm? She is happier, and that happiness is supposed to lead to more intimacy, but it isn't. I can't live like this. She is rejecting me constantly and I feel so alone beside her. I don't want this to continue. I'm angry. I'm stuck. Who did I marry? Is this what our sex life is going to be like now?'
So, I withdraw from her. I get emotionally defensive. I don't hug, I don't open up emotionally, I just do what needs to be done around the house and with the kids, and no more. I go to bed before her. I become distant.
What happens? A blowup. We have an emotion-filled explosion. She feels pressure, I feel rejection, she has no desire, I masturbate 3 times a day, she wants me to be more compassionate, I feel I was being compassionate by giving her space.... Ugh.
Well, that cycle is the past 3 years. I read a LOT, calm myself down from thinking the worst, give myself renewed hope, and move forward. I realize that I cannot bring anger into the situation. Anger will lead to separation if I allow it to take over.
This past year, I made a HUGE effort to stop that cycle. When I felt resentment building, I remembered her saying that if only she didn't have the pressure of sex, and felt safe and loved, her desire might return. I was determined to fulfil that change she needed in me
I did my best to give her that loving space. And it was genuine. I was more understanding and compassionate. I let hope stay ever-present. 7 months passed and there was no change to the situation.
That was this past spring/summer. When I confronted her after all that time of making no sexual advancements at night, after holding back and not 'burdening her' with my desires, and she still didn't want sex, there was a blowup.
She said, 'I knew the other shoe would drop. I was waiting for it to happen!'
I replied, 'Well ya, I will not accept this as normal. I am not happy. I'm miserable. My self-esteem is suffering. I feel rejected and trapped. You are happy with things this way, and I am in hell.'
We shout and get out our raw feelings and talk it through. We are hugging at the end of it all. I have hope, because she truly does express sympathy. She says she doesn't want this SM either, but doesn't know why she has no libido or desire. The cycle continues, albeit changed in some way.
Our boys are now 4.5 and 3. One is full-time school, the other part-time daycare. Our freedoms are beginning to return. Sleep can be had. My wife and I see things getting easier. But the SM remains.
We talk through a lot of it, but there remains a disconnect to our mutual understanding of each others state of minds.
Remember her feelings of shame? I didn't understand them and she couldn't elaborate at the time.
About a year ago, she opened up to say that she believes there was some kind of childhood trauma that is causing feelings of shame. She went to a strict girls-only catholic school with nuns in her early years and thinks her shame stems from there somehow.
She started to see a councillor at that time, but she has said there hasn't been much progress since.
I have seen a councillor, we have gone together, she has seen a trauma councillor, and she expresses willingness to work through her feelings of shame.
So. I have hope. We have hope. But I am still in a SM. Bring up my desires? Not going to happen in this kind of environment, so I wait. Things should improve if we work on it, I tell myself.
We have a greater understanding of our corresponding emotions. I tell her how I'm feeling. We talk a lot. I try to mitigate resentment and think and act positively. I don't always succeed.
Our counsellor says we are working on a big puzzle. Right now, we are finding the edges and piecing them together. It's the easy stuff. But then we will have to get to the inner part of the puzzle, the hard work, and not give up.
I have had some real moments of despair. We have had some huge blowups. But we have advanced our mutual emotional understanding. We have moved to a higher emotional level. But a SM this remains.
Things could improve, or not. I feel she is worth fighting for, but I know I cannot stay forever in this type of relationship.
So, if anyone has read this far (thank you for listening), what are your thoughts? Do I hope?
