Do I hope?

GeekGoddess Awesome suggestions.

She speaks highly of and and wants to do acupuncture again. It helped her with anxiety before me. She is taking better care of her body (doing hair, makeup, facial scrubs, etc) and just started getting massages. Self-care that she neglected since being pregnant.

Also, she is starting yoga again and it has changed her mood dramatically. I'm hoping for those results to trickle down, so to speak.

You are very welcome! I can't offer much advice because I haven't yet solved my problem and come out victoriously on the other side. So for now the best I can do is share parts of my story as I think it will relate to you and others, and share things I've tried in my marriage. Hopefully saving you another 15+ years of agony.

The only way things could possibly change is if your wife owns it as her problem and is willing to make changes to improve the physical intimacy. Explain to her what you want/need in the marriage. Try doing so without blaming her by explaining how the lack of physical intimacy makes you feel emotionally and physically. Avoid mentioning what she is or isn't doing. Keep the conversation brief and about your emotions. If she trys to make it about her, politely explain that the current discussion is about how you feel and if she gives you the courtesy to express yourself today, then you will do the same for her tomorrow. Many refusers will try to manipulate conversations like this and make it all about them. Don't let this happen if at all possible. Consider recording the conversation on your phone so you can listen to it at a later time with a clear, open and objective mind.

Try to help her understand that physical intimacy is ONE important way for you to express your love for her. She has to know it is about more than just "getting your rocks off" and yet another obligation on her to do list. Explain how it makes you feels closer to her on an emotional level, which is what you truly crave. Explain it in terms of physical intimacy, including cuddling, touch, etc, and how you it make you feel to pleasure her, not just PIV sex.

The book titled 'The Sex-Starved Marriage' may help too. See if she is willing to read it after you read it first. Make an appointment with her OB/GYN and go with her to the appointment. Don't let her talk you out of going because you need to hear, document, and understand what the doctor has to say, so tell her you want to be a part of the solution. Explain to the doctor that she has a low libido which is affecting your relationship, and ask for her testosterone and estrogen levels to be checked. If the endrometriosis is causing her pain and discomfort during sex ask about treatment and self-management options. Regular exercise may help as well. If she is letting body image impact physical intimacy ask her what she is willing to do about it for the marriage. Is she willing to commit to regular exercise? Offer to exercise with her. Go with her to buy lingerie that helps conceal what causes her to be uncomfortable with her body. Try your best to make it a fun experience for her. Experiment with candles and subtle lighting in the bedroom. Try starting with a full body massage, which may allow her time to get into the mood. If fatigue and demands of raising children are listed as part of the issue, then schedule sex. Listen to the following podcast: OneExtraordinaryMarriage - Scheduling Sex and other is their series. Ask if she is open to listening to them with you after you've listened to a few first. They highly recommend a plan of designating a three day window for each partner to initiate each and every week, which shares control with the initiator, maintains some semblance of spontaneity, and also takes out the guess work of when/if you'll be intimate again.

Set a six month and one year timeline with a reasonable set of expectations on how the marriage should improve, and what actions your are prepared to take if it doesn't (Plan B). Keep this to yourself, but document it so you don't forget any details including the start and end dates. Do not make an ultimatum at this point. Write a daily journal of how you feel, observations on your mood, what steps she has taken to improve the marriage, what steps you have taken to improve the marriage, how this impacts the children, etc. You can keep this securely password protected on your phone. She won't respond well to being graded so don't share it with her. However, Do your best to support and encourage her during this transition and growth period. Ask her what you can do as well.

Above all else, explain to her that doing nothing is NOT an option. Hope is not a strategy!

That is sheer and utter nonsense! Most doctors recommend waiting six weeks before attempting intercourse. Her body has been through a lot during the pregnancy and delivery, but will recover nicely. Be patient and supportive. Remind her to do her Kegels too.

These really are very encouraging developments.  If she can learn to love herself enough, then she may let you love her again too.

But - you need to keep up on your individual personal development as well.  This way, even if the union cannot be saved, both individuals will still be at their "best off" status for surviving the split.  (Sorry - I almost can't post anything unless I add a "dash of doom" to it for realism's sake)  :-)

Good luck,

This is something you'll read fairly frequently. The refusing spouse asks not to be pressured, the refused spouse complies, and nothing changes. In other words, they hoodwinked you into a few more sex free months. I don't see how you have hope for anything but more hope.

If you are setting a timeline and intend to inform her of this timeline, that is in effect an ultimatum. We recently had a somewhat spirited discussion on ultimatums, which I would suggest reading. There are differences of opinion on the value and purpose of ultimatums, but we would all agree that if you do lay down an ultimatum, you better mean it. You better be truly prepared to end the marriage. If you say unless X happens Y will happen, and then neither happens, she will never take another word you say seriously.

If you are just making a timeline for yourself, you're not going follow it. Read around too for stories where people set timelines and said to themselves, that's it, I give it X months then that's it. And they are still there. I think to be honest that timelines are just a way of putting off the inevitable. You know she's not going to change. Or if she does, we're talking years in the making. Hard time. I guess it's important to know you tried, but it sounds like you have more than tried. Not to mention there's always one more book you can read, one more _____play you can try, one more round of counseling to give it one last shot, until the next one. Not that there is no place for setting a timeline for yourself. If you really want to leave but can't bring yourself to do it yet, this is a way to keep your spirits up while you get emotionally ready. It makes you feel like you are taking action.

Very well, just don't be still "taking action" a year from now. If you need a little time buffer, fine, but then take real action. Either leave or make a decision to stay and own that decision as your true decision, not a nondecision you didn't make because you could bring yourself to leave. Choosing to stay is a valid decision. Staying because you can't leave is a sad way to live out your life.

The two biggest mistakes in my marriage...

1. Not leaving 3 months into my immediately sexless marriage, as I really wanted to. Before the child was conceived a couple months later in a near immaculate conception

2. Failing that, not making it perfectly clear that celibacy is not an option

Yea I know all about how pressure is counterproductive but so is everything else. I should have made my position clear and then stuck to my guns.

This idea about professionals passing this all off to pregnancy induced childhood traumas coming to the surface...
Excuses are wonderful but what are their solutions that are proven to work? After another 20 miserable celibate years, that knowledge will not be much solace. And beware... When it comes to psychology printer's ink is cheap. In the Internet age digital bits are free

If celibacy is not an option she should be the first one to know it, in no uncertain terms. Coach it anyway you want as long as that message is clear.

@phinheasgage, to add to your excellent post, just above...

Refusers always say "I'm working on it". Please check the physics definition of "work". The executive summary: work involves moving a mass by applying a force. The key here is mass and motion. If you put something on a table and it sits there, never moving, then by definition no work was performed.

If your spouse tells you that the grass has not been mown in a couple of weeks and it's going to seed, and you tell her "I'm working on it", but the mower sits unused in the garage, then no work was performed. And she gets pissed.

But for some reason we let our refusers tell us, for years, that "I'm working on it" yet nothing actually happens, just like that object lying motionless on a table or that grass growing 6" taller next week.

And somehow that's ok. When it comes to SMs it's ok if nothing happens while our spouse is furiously working on the problem.

Celibacy is not an option. Work without progress is not progress, it's bullshit