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Post by JMX on Nov 2, 2016 23:32:31 GMT -5
Some days I don't even know why I still post here. I guess I just need to get it out. I am in a strange position. I DO love my husband. I am not particularly fussed about how we turn out anymore. I do not believe in soul mates, so it's not so deep in that I don't think I could love another. My love for him is sometimes more of a brotherly love, not really a lover love and, that is his fault. At this point I have a visualization of my life with him and without him. My vision without him is pretty spectacular but... Bumpy and messy. My vision with him is pretty stable for the kids and my overall knowledge of history and how that will play out (basically, it IS WHAT IT IS). I am fine with either way that turns out. I can get sex on the side. But! There's still an underlying issue. My answer to my ind. therapist today was - I have been working on my personality for so long now - about two decades - I am as cool as I am going to fucking get. There are no more levels to breach here. The rest is my vanity. I need someone to tell me I am beautiful, inside and out. I need for him to love me at my worst and love me at my best. If he does? He needs to stop doing it quietly. I rose to an expectation. I never get recognition for anything. Not the good. No scolding for the bad. I get nothing. I NEED someone else to tell me that I am enough - despite my bad and because of my good. My therapist had commented that I was extremely negative since couples counseling. She noted that I was strong, capable and full of positivity even when sad before. I was taking care of myself. She said a lot of my self-care has stopped with "working on us". She is not wrong. She also said couples counseling will not work until both want to work on themselves. I don't understand - I am lovely  When he can not articulate what I need to work on for him, what can I work on? My guess is on me. But it never matters to me in my current situation. A dream of vanity: One day, I will walk into an event in a red dress with a slit up the side and I will have a charming night. All I talk to will be enthralled by me. I will be swarmed, I will laugh and joke and be very interesting. But I will go home with my man. one that will fuck me good, so even though I will enjoy the attention, I will go home with HIM. He used to be that man. I am not sure he can be that man again. I would like to be that woman again, but this is easier (my issue). A lot to figure out. (Still) that I already thought I figured out. That I did not. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Nov 3, 2016 0:52:02 GMT -5
I have those 2 future visions too JMX. It's almost easiest for me to describe them as the black and white dull grey eternity v's the glorious technicolour adventure ride of my life. Hmm. Only I can choose which! And I get about needing some kind of feedback too. Something. Please. Negative or positive doesn't really matter. Without this feedback, you are on your own. It's like living with a cardboard cut out. I feel you girl xxx |
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Post by lwoetin on Nov 3, 2016 2:10:25 GMT -5
My therapist had commented that I was extremely negative since couples counseling. She noted that I was strong, capable and full of positivity even when sad before. I was taking care of myself. You don't sound negative though. You sound realistic in your expectations and y ou're in control. He needs to step up.
Your dream reminds me of Wonderful Tonight song (not too fond of the moaning in the end though). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 2:13:04 GMT -5
Send me an invitation to that party when you wear the dress with the slit up the side.
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 3, 2016 5:20:31 GMT -5
JMX How does he react if you greet him in thigh-high sheer black stockings, high heels, a sexy smile, and tatas akimbo?
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Post by baza on Nov 3, 2016 6:12:05 GMT -5
You know the onion (many layers) saying Sister JMX.
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And in your post you said - "A lot to figure out. (Still) that I already thought I figured out. That I did not".
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This, I believe, is the process.
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You penetrate the first layer (eg "everything is great bar the sex" and examine it.
And find another layer, which you penetrate.
And another.
And you figure - "I've got this shit worked out"
Then,
another layer of the onion. Oops. There's more to learn.
Another couple of layers are penetrated.
You find out that what you thought about 5 layers back wasn't exactly right.
So you revise.
"Now I've got it" you figure.
Erroneously, for there is yet another layer for you to penetrate and examine.
And another and another.
Your thinking gets rigorously challenged.
And now, at last, you "have it all worked out"
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WRONG !!!!!!
For there is a new layer previously unseen
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On the process goes, just as life goes on.
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And I reckon that the times you figure you "have it worked out" are just about guaranteed for you to find out shortly after, that you haven't got it all worked out at all.
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But I don't want to paint a picture of unremitting drudgery and pitching a tent outside your counsellor.
It ain't like that.
It's on the job training.
Real life tutorials.
Real time lessons.
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It's exciting, exhilarating sometimes.
And sometimes dull.
It's life.
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Keep peeling.
What's in the next layer ?
Aren't you curious ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 6:19:06 GMT -5
So much penetration, so little time.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Nov 3, 2016 6:24:44 GMT -5
I have had a breakthrough recently on my own mindset. You all know, probably, that I kind of feel like "well I did take care of me by getting OUT - and so quick" - - but in my therapy appt recently, she really did challenge me on some of my wording (as sounding still victim-y) - - and I did not like it. I changed my phrasing so that I could go on & make my point. But the next few days, her point(s) really started seeping into my conscience (I think she would use the word internalizing). I understood what she meant, because I finally could see it from different angles, using different words. I still have a little bit of "defensive" in me about it (that my actions were in response to his treatment) - but THAT is victim, reactive, not owning my responsibility for it. I get that! (hypothetically - or - about 70%) When I truly own all layers of it - I chose to be this way, I chose to stay in the situation, I chose to hide that it hurt my feelings....I trained him to treat me like I didn't matter and why did I believe I didn't matter - - -then I will be able to release "him" out of it and integrate all my past into "yeah, that was me" and move on emotionally the rest of the way. But baza is absolutely right, I think, about that onion. I'm pretty sure the only way I won't have another layer of onion is when I'm dead. So I need to adjust my outlook so that instead of, "What fresh hell is this?" I can learn to see it as "OK universe, I'm ready - and curious - to see what's in the next layer!" |
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Post by JMX on Nov 3, 2016 20:10:57 GMT -5
JMX How does he react if you greet him in thigh-high sheer black stockings, high heels, a sexy smile, and tatas akimbo? Oh, I stopped trying that many moons ago. Truly, I am beginning to see this all as an exercise about me. Why do I need the attention? Was this situation "made" specifically for me to get over myself? Maybe. But the vanity is still there. And it hurts. But only kind of now. |
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Post by JMX on Nov 3, 2016 20:12:18 GMT -5
I have had a breakthrough recently on my own mindset. You all know, probably, that I kind of feel like "well I did take care of me by getting OUT - and so quick" - - but in my therapy appt recently, she really did challenge me on some of my wording (as sounding still victim-y) - - and I did not like it. I changed my phrasing so that I could go on & make my point. But the next few days, her point(s) really started seeping into my conscience (I think she would use the word internalizing). I understood what she meant, because I finally could see it from different angles, using different words. I still have a little bit of "defensive" in me about it (that my actions were in response to his treatment) - but THAT is victim, reactive, not owning my responsibility for it. I get that! (hypothetically - or - about 70%) When I truly own all layers of it - I chose to be this way, I chose to stay in the situation, I chose to hide that it hurt my feelings....I trained him to treat me like I didn't matter and why did I believe I didn't matter - - -then I will be able to release "him" out of it and integrate all my past into "yeah, that was me" and move on emotionally the rest of the way. But baza is absolutely right, I think, about that onion. I'm pretty sure the only way I won't have another layer of onion is when I'm dead. So I need to adjust my outlook so that instead of, "What fresh hell is this?" I can learn to see it as "OK universe, I'm ready - and curious - to see what's in the next layer!" Why do I have the image of the ones that "got out" merely being the onion cut in half? The layers are still there but maybe a little quicker to de-robe.  baza - definitely a great analogy. |
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Post by baza on Nov 3, 2016 20:25:58 GMT -5
I believe, Sister JMX, that I learned a heap more about my ILIASM deal after I got out of it than I ever learned whilst I was in it.
When I got out, I knew "enough" to know I needed to get out, but not much more.
And mostly, what I have since learned about that relationship since, is just what a good choice that was, but at greater depth and understanding and acceptance.
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The onion - to some extent - DOES need to be cut in half to start the process.
But you still need to go through the layers.
If you don't, then I think you run a real big risk of picking up another dud onion.
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Post by unmatched on Nov 3, 2016 20:31:01 GMT -5
But! There's still an underlying issue. My answer to my ind. therapist today was - I have been working on my personality for so long now - about two decades - I am as cool as I am going to fucking get. There are no more levels to breach here. The rest is my vanity. I need someone to tell me I am beautiful, inside and out. I need for him to love me at my worst and love me at my best. If he does? He needs to stop doing it quietly. I rose to an expectation. I never get recognition for anything. Not the good. No scolding for the bad. I get nothing. I NEED someone else to tell me that I am enough - despite my bad and because of my good. You know what - this is NOT vanity. You are pretty fucking cool, you know that. But nobody lives in a vacuum. I think there is a strong temptation when we are in counselling (and for counsellors) to see everything as a weakness in our psyche. That when we have finally finished working on ourselves we won't need validation from anybody else, we won't need other people to prop up our neuroses, we won't need to constantly reaffirm how smart/sexy/desirable/worthy we are because we will know it on some deep level within ourselves. And I think there is some truth in that. BUT... the older I get the more convinced I am that there is so much more to our makeup than what we think. Before we ever started thinking we were emotional creatures, so the idea that all our 'negative' emotions come from our thoughts and beliefs just doesn't make sense. The emotions were there FIRST - look at almost every other mammal on the planet. (Disclaimer: that is not to say that having a warped view of the world doesn't also create a whole bunch of unnecessary suffering, both mental and emotional.) We are designed to feel things, we are designed as social animals and we are designed to bond with other people, and to keep reinforcing those bonds through doing stuff together, through affirmation, through touch and through sex. If you try and convince yourself that all those things shouldn't be important to you, you are living way too much in your head and you are resigning yourself to a life of never quite feeling like you are good enough. You have too much going for you to want to do that. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Nov 3, 2016 20:35:29 GMT -5
JMX How does he react if you greet him in thigh-high sheer black stockings, high heels, a sexy smile, and tatas akimbo? Oh, I stopped trying that many moons ago. Truly, I am beginning to see this all as an exercise about me. Why do I need the attention? Was this situation "made" specifically for me to get over myself? Maybe. But the vanity is still there. And it hurts. But only kind of now. You should never feel like you have to apologize or "feel bad" for who you are. In a lot of ways I see us being a lot alike- we're both the type to work a room and influence all those around us, whether we intend to or not. There's nothing wrong with that- it just means we need a strong partner to keep up with us, either to temper our extremes, or to complement us as hosts and hostesses. I read your first post with a little bit of a tear in my eye- I felt like I was watching a brightly, brilliant rose beginning to wilt and droop just a bit under a heavy and constant rainfall. Please, don't stop being you. And don't apologize for being you. Ever. |
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Post by JMX on Nov 3, 2016 21:08:48 GMT -5
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 4, 2016 9:05:38 GMT -5
JMX I don't think it's an issue of vanity. It's human nature to want to feel wanted and desired. I think to some degree because we are so starved for attention, affection and intimacy from our spouses it definitely triggers something psychologically and emotionally in us to make us feel unattractive and not lovable. The bottom line is we just coupled with the wrong people for too long. We allowed them to neglect us and so there's our responsibility with that part of the equation too but it's because we are too kind or we are avoidant of conflict like they are of intimacy. The onion analogy is a good one and I love analogies! I think we are onions that are still planted, continually growing and adding layers. I don't think we are cut in half because we don't have to receive our happiness from any one person. Sometimes a storm comes and maybe damages the crop a little but the onion can still repair and thrive. I don't believe in soulmates either. I believe in "what you put into something is what you get out of it" and "quality vs quantity". I am not in a committed relationship and I don't know if I ever will be. I have a FWB and I'm meeting men on a dating app (which by the way is a great way to boost self esteem and confidence - it's nice to get a message from a man, just a simple "what a great smile" or "you're a doll"). I try not to look too far ahead and I try to live in the day and enjoy that moment. I could remember being married and I fantasized about my own apartment or small house with the kids of course Having weekends to myself or to go out with friends or on a date. Having freedom to do what I want and not have to deal with my husband's controlling nature. There are days that I'm a little down but overall I am so much happier. My mental and emotional health is much better now that I'm on my own. Find your happiness honey. Hugs xoxo
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