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Post by theexplorer on May 18, 2018 10:49:06 GMT -5
Thanks for all the replies. I suspected this old guy might be right. He has given me some very wise advice in the past, so I respect and trust him. What he said seemed logical, but it is quite different than what I have always thought. It is so different, that I was having trouble accepting it!
Jim44444, at 67 you are not old. This guy is in his early 90's!! He is planning on living to 120 years of age!
Northstarmom, I have a somewhat similar problem with making friends in this area. I've never had a problem making friends in other places. This small town is just not friendly! (I would move away, but this is my wife's hometown and she is NOT leaving!!) I will put more effort into building some friendships. Maybe I can find another "outsider" that needs a friend.
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Post by theexplorer on May 10, 2018 11:52:38 GMT -5
On the subject of pets, I know a woman who has always disliked animals. Her live in boyfriend adopted a dog. Her boyfriend died, "his" dog is now her best friend!! She loves that dog!
Dogs demand a considerable amount of care. I've had a few dogs in the past, but can not have one with my current lifestyle. I currently have a cat. It doesn't mind being left alone all day.
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Post by theexplorer on May 8, 2018 16:31:03 GMT -5
I had a talk with an old man recently. I've known this guy for many years and have a great deal of respect for him. He is often a very wise man who has given me some excellent advice in the past. He was married for over 50 years, until his wife passed away a few years ago. As an outside observer, I think he had an unusually happy marriage. During our recent conversation, I asked him why the rate of divorce had climbed so much over the course of his lifetime. His reply really surprised me! In fact, he almost shocked me! I'm not sure what to think of his opinion. Hopefully someone here can offer additional perspectives.
In this old man's opinion, the reason the divorce rate has climbed so much is because people expect to much from their partner. He said that men frequently expect their wives to be their lover, a mother to their children, a best friend, companion and confidant. They also expect their wives to take care of their home, pay the bills, to run errands and go shopping and on top of all that to also have a full time career. He said that is just to much to reasonably expect from one woman! On the other hand, he said that women expect to much from their husbands. He said that husbands are expected to have a job with a large paycheck, to be a great father to their kids, to meet their wives emotional needs and to keep them happy. Their husbands are also expected to be the family handyman, to take care of the yard, to keep their marriage fresh and interesting, to be well liked and respected in their social circle and to be there for their wife anything something comes up. He was certain there are not enough hours in each day for a man to achieve all these goals.
After explaining his view of the core problem, this old man offered several solutions:
1. Couples need to have close friends outside the marriage. He said a man needs to have a close male friend in whom he can confide. For example, he can talk to his friend about problems at work. His male friend can go places and share interests in things his wife would never find enjoyment. This old man also said a wife needs to have a close female friend in who will understand her better than her husband could ever could understand her. She needs at least one close friend outside the marriage who she can talk to about her children and other things in which her husband had little interest.
2. This old man said many families need to reduce monthly financial expenses. He mentioned that most people today, in the USA at least, live in homes that are considerably larger than necessary. He said people often spend to much money to fill these large homes with stuff they do not need or use. In addition to excessive spending on homes, he said that many family's have to many vehicles or have vehicles that cost to much to own. Excessive credit card debt is another financial pitfall other couples fall into. He said reducing financial pressure would create happier homes. If couples work less and spend more time on recreational activities they enjoy they would be happier.
3. Use some of the money that is saved in step two, to pay someone else to do some of "chores" found in step one.
I'm not sure what to think of this old man's ideas. The financial part of his advice makes sense to me. The part about having a close friend outside the marriage to make the marriage better was a completely new idea. I had always thought one's husband or wife should be their best friend. Does anyone here have any thoughts on this?
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Post by theexplorer on May 3, 2018 14:24:59 GMT -5
First off, I would definitely suggest speaking with a lawyer immediately. You need to learn about your options in order to make an informed decision. After mentioning divorce to your husband, who knows what might be doing behind your back. A visit to the lawyer is important! I attempt to look at major decisions from every possible viewpoint. I like to consider options that may not seem workable or practical at first glance. So lets do a thought exercise: Depending on your situation, staying with him and outsourcing is an option you MAY want to consider. In some situations, this can work out reasonably well. You have his approval to outsource. Since he is gone 5 days out of 7 you do NOT have to spend to much time with him. Perhaps you can find things to do so you will not be around him when he is home. (Let him keep the kids and you take care of the outsourcing! Find a job that requires you to work while he is home.) Staying with him may be better financially, socially, etc. It also means he can help with the children and it may disrupt their lives less. Living with one guy and having another as a lover has been done before. I would not tell the kids or your husband about the other guy. Spend time with the other guy while they are not around. There was a recent discussion that was somewhat similar to this subject: iliasm.org/thread/4387/bballgirl-option Good luck with whatever you decide!
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Post by theexplorer on May 3, 2018 13:47:35 GMT -5
On the messy house, I have a few ideas. These suggestions will not work for everyone, but perhaps these ideas can help someone:
1. Separate homes can make a marriage more tolerable. For example, if you have a long commute to work, rent a small 1 bedroom apartment where you can stay a few nights per week. A friend, who had a lousy marriage, did this for years. His wife was into horses and stayed at their country home. He had a sleeping room in the city near his office. (They did this after their kids were grown.) A divorced guy I know who has 3 kids married a woman with 3 children. They got along great. Their kids could not stand living together in the same house. They rented apartments next door to each other to separate the kids.
2. Have a job that requires travel, either part time or all the time.
3. Have a week-end cabin or a vacation home.
4. Travel or go camping frequently.
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 30, 2018 14:07:30 GMT -5
You are right, northstarmom, I did not consider the points you mention. My situation is somewhat unusual on this forum. (Sexless due to health issues.)
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 30, 2018 13:06:10 GMT -5
I have also been looking for one of these "clearly compensating for something" vehicles Drycreek mentioned! Life seems boring currently!! The only practical way for me to have such a ride is to have it as an additional vehicle. (Hauling disabled family members with mobility problems means I need a large, practical, easily accessed vehicle for normal use.) I have been trying to decide between a sports car and a Jeep. Do I want to have fun on road or off-road? Decisions, Decisions, and more Decisions!!
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 30, 2018 12:50:56 GMT -5
Emotional abuse is under rated by some men. Years ago, I did NOT even believe emotional abuse was real. I imagined it was just some nonsense that a "psychological professional" created so they could have more patients. If it did happen to be real, it would only be effective on a weak person, not a big, strong guy!
Later, a petite, little woman used emotional abuse on me. She messed me up badly!! I never even saw her "attack" coming. She nearly drove me to suicide! Emotional abuse is very real and quite powerful. Do NOT underestimate it!! It can destroy you!!!
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 30, 2018 12:04:50 GMT -5
I don't think the jealousy is uncommon....just the part where nobody is allowed to have me...lol Unfortunately, you are not the only one in that group!! Many refusers could have a happier and more secure marriage if they allowed their partner to have a "friend with benefits." This idea is incomprehensible to nearly all refusers!! A sexless life makes their partner unhappy which motivates them to either divorce or outsource. A sexually starved person is NOT going to be happy! A happy, satisfied partner is key to a lasting, secure marriage. Having a satisfying sex life is an important contributor to happiness. If a refuser allowed their partner to have a "friend with benefits," that they will not fall in love with, their marriage would improve. The typical refuser can NOT understand this though!
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 25, 2018 14:24:50 GMT -5
Bballgirl's solution could be a great option. I like the idea! There is the question of how often this could be worked out though. Ex spouses are often hostile.
Bballgirl, Why do you think your Ex-husband agreed to this arrangement? Do you think your husband wants your help with the children? Does he have other personal motivations?
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 25, 2018 14:11:31 GMT -5
Divorce would be difficult for me to initiate due to me being a stay at home mom that part time homeschools. Also, the kids may want to stay with him due to how his side of the family spoils them and they have a fairly good standard of living through him. I’m so not ready for this financially or emotionally, but I am starting to face the facts. Your children: A divorce will probably change the relationship with your children, at least to a degree. You may have less time with them. You may not be able to continue to home school them. They could blame you or your future Ex for the marriage ending. I do not know of anyway to determine ahead of time exactly how all of this will turn out. As to not being financially ready for divorce: If you receive child support, the child support will end at some point. Since you have more than one child the child support will (presumably) be phased out as the children become adults. In other words, you will be receiving diminishing payments over time. Your lawyer can give you specific information on how this is done in your jurisdiction. There are few things to consider regarding child support. 1. If the children decide to live with your EX in the future, you will stop receiving the child support payments and may have to start paying your EX child support. Ask your lawyer how this works in your area. 2. If the cost of living continues to rise and the child support payment drops as the children become adults, you could face financial troubles in the future. Once the child support begins to decline and eventually ends, you may need to replace that income. Bottom line: It would be wise to be prepared to support yourself and your children if necessary. This is a good idea even if you stay in the marriage. Your husbands ability to support you and your children could end at anytime. (He could be physically disabled, die, experience a prolonged illness, etc.)
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 4, 2018 17:13:32 GMT -5
"The Body Keeps Score" is THE book on the subject of C-PTSD, in which the "C" stands for complex. There is a movement for C-PTSD to be included in the DSM, but it is not there yet. Basically, instead of a one time traumatic event, it is a series of traumas that add up to the PTSD symptoms. For example, instead of a house fire, a series of "small" traumatic events, like childhood beatings where there is a loss of control and constant feeling of hopelessness.....
Yes, you are correct about C-PTSD. In my previous post, I was going strictly by the current definition of PTSD. As you stated, it may be that C-PTSD will be included in the future. Perhaps C-PTSD will be given some other name? Only time will tell.
My Uncle had PTSD from military combat. I learned most of what I know about the subject from him. (He has since passed away from cancer.) His PTSD affected his life profoundly!!! He was only in combat for a fairly short period of time, but it affected him for the rest of his life.
Long term trauma can profoundly mess a person up!!! I'm not knowledgeable enough, at the current time, to have an opinion on C-PTSD. The book you recommended sounds like a highly interesting book. I will definitely read it!
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 27, 2018 18:36:17 GMT -5
Emotionally abusive relationships can unquestionably mess a person up. The damage may be internal, but it is VERY, VERY real!
One of my family members has PTSD, so I have researched the subject. I'm NOT an expert, but know more about the subject than many people. I am skeptical about this author's claim that emotional abuse caused PTSD. PTSD is a very serious disorder. There is a whole family of disorders which are very similar to PTSD. Some of these disorders can be caused by an abusive relationship. The symptoms, and the treatment, would be very similar.
PTSD is typically caused by a life threating experience. Life threating is the KEY. Death must be imminent! If you, or someone close to you, is staring death in the face, PTSD can be the result. Extreme violence, such as military combat; Natural disasters where people are dying next to you; severe accidents and other life threating experiences are the typical triggers of PTSD. Rape and severe childhood abuse can also cause PTSD.
The author of this article could very well have PTSD. I'm NOT questioning her diagnosis. Based on what is written in this article, I would question if her PTSD came from her abusive relationship. An abusive relationship could cause PTSD, if she believed her husband was going to kill her. For instance, if he was brandishing a weapon and threatening to kill her, she could easily get PTSD. It would only take one severe fight, where she thought her death was imminent, during the relationship to trigger PTSD. In such a case, the fight triggered the PTSD, not the relationship. Likewise, if she experienced a severe car accident or natural disaster during her relationship, she could have PTSD from that incident. On the other hand, the author of this article could have PTSD from childhood abuse. In fact, she may not even be able to remember the abuse, but she could still have PTSD as a result. PTSD can go into a "remission" like state, sometimes for many years. If she was severely abused as a child, she may have contracted PTSD. Later, it may have gone into "remission", only to return due to her abusive relationship.
It is also possible that the author was misdiagnosed. She may not have PTSD, but have one of the other disorders that closely resembles PTSD. Some of these other disorders can mimic PTSD quite closely.
Please understand, I am NOT trying to minimize the damage that is done by abusive relationships. Prolonged abuse, even relatively mild abuse, over a period of time can have devastating consequences. It can destroy a person. Emotional abuse can be an incredibly powerful weapon. It can seriously mess up a person! The author of this article could have been profoundly damaged by her relationship. And, as previously stated, she could very possibly have PTSD. I only question if PTSD is a direct result of an abusive relationship. It absolutely could be an indirect result though!
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 16, 2018 10:55:43 GMT -5
On the question of whether or not a person can outsource over a long term, the answer is yes. I read a book a couple of years ago on this very point. The book was specifically about married women who also had long term lovers. I believe the book was written back in the late 1980's. The author was a mental health professional. Unfortunately, I do not recall the book's title or the author's name currently.
Anyway, the author of this book interviewed dozens of married women who had long term lovers. The book was essentially a collection of their stories. (With the names changed!) It was obviously written for female readers.
Several of the women in this book claimed to have engaged in outsourcing for decades. I believe one woman had done so for over 30 years with the same man. I believe all of them had maintained at least a 5 year relationship with the same man. Some of the women had sex with both their husband and their lover. Other women were in sexless marriages. Some of them were in love with both their husband and their lover. Some of the women were only in love their AP, others considered them a friend with benefits. All of these women claimed that they were only involved with one guy outside their marriage. Some of the women said they had several lovers when they began outsourcing, but then they settled on one partner. Some of the women had married lovers, others had single lovers. At least one woman's lover married anther woman, and continued to see her behind his new wife's back. Some met their lover weekly, others were only occasionally together. There was a HUGE variety in the way the different women conducted their outsourcing.
At the end of the book, the author pointed out that she did NOT research the male perspective on long term outsourcing. She acknowledged that the men who were involved with the women in the book could have a considerably different viewpoint. She did not even attempt to contact the men involved. By only telling the women's side, it seemed like the author was only telling half of each story.
The author of this book believed this practice is much more common than most people suspect. I have no idea if she is correct. Since this book was written quite a few years back, things could have changed.
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 7, 2018 18:43:56 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm just a bit to suspicious, but I wonder if he is involved with another woman. He may be doing nothing wrong, but I would be looking for other signs of him outsourcing. If you see some other warning signs, an investigation may be warranted.
Hope I'm wrong about your husband. My friends wife developed an obsession with her phone. He finally understood her obsession, after he saw the divorce papers.
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