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Post by theexplorer on Oct 5, 2021 13:14:28 GMT -5
It took me a while to get back to the computer. To clarify a few points from the previous post:
I had some counseling after seeking help. I had a great counselor who made a difference.
My marriage has been a significant contributor to my depression. Some months back, I fell in love with another woman. (This was discussed that in another post.) For whatever it is worth, falling in love drove the depression away! Of course, that was a dangerous move and could have lead huge problems. (I live in a jurisdiction with lifetime alimony!!) Regardless, falling in love banished the depression. After it was over, the depression returned.
I agree with Mirrorchid that clinical depression is not necessarily a call to make changes in one's life. Clinical depression is far more serious! Thanks for mentioning that point.
On the first point that Solitarysoul mentions: From what I've read, depression is generally caused by more than one factor. One exception to this generalization is lack of sleep. Lack of sleep, in and of it's self, can cause depression. There are times when I can't sleep. It doesn't take very many nights of sleeping of only 3 to 4 hours and my depression returns.
Living with a depressed person could certainly be an issue for someone who is depressed! (I would hate to imagine living in my parents home today.) You are a strong man, Solitarysoul, to have lived in such an environment!! Unfortunately, you could reach the point where you MUST leave. (To save yourself!) I'm not necessarily talking about divorce. Perhaps you need to take a job farther away from home. Then you could get an apartment or sleeping room near your job, so you can stay there during the work week. Maybe a job that requires some travel to escape her influence. I don't know what would have to be done to meet your wife's needs while you are gone. Someone else may need to step in to help her and give you a break.
My wife could have some underlying depression. She has some symptoms that suggest depression. If she has any depression,she typically hides it. She attempts to hide most of her emotions most of the time, so that would be typical behavior for her. (There are times when I do not feel like I even know her!)
On finding a purpose, that can be difficult!! So many possible options. My current thinking is finding a way to help others that would be meaningful to me. I guess that would fall in to the Charitable category. Still thinking about this point, in the few moments of spare time available!
Finding friends is important. I've underestimated the importance of this in the past. I always focused on work. Work is good, but it ain't everything! Finding friends has proven to be more difficult in the second half of life. I am putting more effort into connecting with old friends and making new friends though. Sometimes the phone seems so heavy when I pick it up to call a friend!
Are we allowed to post links to other websites on this board?
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Post by theexplorer on Sept 27, 2021 13:17:38 GMT -5
Mirrorchid asked about my journey back from the brink of suicide. To understand the journey back, you need to understand where I was at that time.
I was a rather sick man at that point in time. I had been to a bunch of doctors and none of them had any idea how to help me. Several of the doctors had said I wasn't actually sick, my problems were all in my head. I was NOT lying. I was sick!! I was living in constant pain with seemingly no hope of recovery. In addition to the physical pain, I couldn't think clearly much of the time. I was miserable and couldn't see ANY hope for the future!!!
To make matters worse, 5 family members had died in the previous 12 months. Then my dog, which I'd had for many years, unexpectedly died. It was a the darkest period of my life!
To keep this story somewhat concise, one of my friends recognized that I was in serious trouble. I did not know her very well at that time, but she picked up on it. She asked if I was contemplating suicide. I denied it. She didn't buy my denial for a moment. She proceeded to have a long talk with me. The main thing I recall from the conversation was that she cared about me. That meant more than most folks could understand!
Shortly after this, my wife took me to a new Doctor that was very well regarded. After telling the doctor my story, he told me, "I believe you." He went on to say that a couple of other patients had come to his office with similar symptoms. He had researched my condition and said he was positive that my illness was real. He also stated that he was the doctor that should be able to help me. He went on to say that the discovery of this illness was so recent that it had not even been given a name yet. Since it was so new, he had no idea how to treat it, but he did say that most patients recover on their own, eventually. He also gave me a medicine that helped with the pain a little bit.
After that doctor's visit, my wife accepted that I had a genuine problem. She stopped berating me, accusing me of lying about symptoms, etc. Before that doctor's visit, she had made my life utterly miserable!! Once she stopped her relentless attacks and criticism, my daily life began to improve.
My physical health gradually improved over time. Turning my mental health around was a whole different challenge! It was a very long road to reach the point where I was even slightly interested in living again. It probably took close to 2 years. It's difficult to explain the recovery. In fact, I don't think I am capable of explaining it. There was a definite relationship between my mental and physical health. As I felt better physically, my desire to live began to grow.
An over-the-counter antidepressant has been a huge help. It is not a cure, but it helps manage the depression. I've also done some research on suicide in an attempt to understand it better.
Today, I am not completely over that suicidal period. Most of the time I want to live. If I get depressed, it's easy to slip back into thinking about suicide though. I think one of the things that would help me is to develop a reason or a purpose for living. Achieving this objective has been more difficult than expected!
Another realization is that I really need to improve my life! I read that depression can be a "wake up" call from the subconscious mind telling us we need to make changes in our life. In a number of areas, my life sucks!! My social life sucks, especially since Covid-19 arrived. Before Covid-19, I tended to work to many hours per week. My elderly parents need a LOT of help. I've cut back how much time I spend around them though. One of my parents is suffering from untreated depression. (They refuse to treat it!) Being around someone who is depressed, that I care about, drags me down. I've discovered that eating healthy food helps me feel a little bit better. I also stopped watching the news. The 24 hour news stations on TV seem to affect me more than I would have imagined. Perhaps this helped to answer the question about my recovery. The thoughts are not the most organized, but hopefully they are understandable. I've made many changes in my life. Some helped a little, some helped a lot.
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Post by theexplorer on Sept 22, 2021 12:04:37 GMT -5
Catlover, sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. I have lost two friends to suicide. It sucks!
There are MANY reasons a person takes their life. Solitarysoul mentions several, but there are other reasons as well.
Unfortunately, those of us who are left will NEVER really know why a particular individual made such a choice. We are left with questions. Questions that we can never answer. Haunting questions that leave us confused. It just doesn't make sense to us. We can never know what another person is experiencing or what they are thinking. Therefore, we can never understand exactly what drove them to make such a drastic choice.
A few years back, I nearly took my own life. At that point, ending my life actually seemed like the best choice. It made complete, perfect sense. I believed that was the best option. It became an obsessive thought that I couldn't get out of my mind. I was certain my family would be better off without me. I couldn't imagine that my life was going to improve. The intense, emotional pain I was experiencing seemed unbearable. I was convinced that dying was the best option for myself and that my death would improve the lives of the people around me.
Fortunately, one of my friends realized that I was in a bad place. They saved my life. Over time, I realized how my thoughts, beliefs and perceptions had become twisted and messed up. I realized that we can't always trust our own minds. Was my brain chemistry off? I have no idea. Without a doubt, my thinking was certainly way off!
Catlover, I don't know your wife, but I can share one observation about my wife. My wife HATES to see a man cry. She also hates to be an emotional support for a man. She wants the man to be there for her if she needs to cry. She want a man to be her emotional support. Now, I'm NOT suggesting that her thinking is reasonable. I do not agree with her thinking. (Men are human and have emotions.) I'm just explaining how she is.
In a time of loss like this, do you have other family you can turn to for support?
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Post by theexplorer on Aug 30, 2021 11:54:40 GMT -5
3) It is painful to read some of the comments, sometimes I had to stop reading because I felt I was relieving some of my grief, sadness and pain. This has been and sometimes still is a problem for me. As I've come to at least partially accept my situation, it has become somewhat easier to read other people's experience. Sometimes their stories still affect me though!
I also have a great deal of stuff to deal with in real life. A less than healthy wife; elderly parents that need a great deal of help, taking care of ALL of the shopping and errands since my wife struggles with walking, (for my home and my parents!) not to mention trying to maintain my own home and vehicles, plus all the things people normally deal with like working, etc.
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Post by theexplorer on Aug 30, 2021 11:20:38 GMT -5
Jerri, thanks for posting those excellent thoughts.
Catlover, It sounds like our wives could be sisters! Seriously, my wife is excellent when dealing with medical emergencies and problems. She has an interest in medical science, so she has learned a great deal about the subject.
Like you, there have been times when I've felt awful even considering leaving her or outsourcing. She cares about me and loves me in her own way. Unfortunately, her own way does not prioritize physical affection, intimacy and sex.
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Post by theexplorer on Aug 17, 2021 17:39:19 GMT -5
I was interrupted during the previous post. To continue:
It is real important to take care of yourself as well as your wife. This was something that I failed to realize early on. Burnout is a real threat to a care giver. I finally recognized that getting my own needs met was just as important as taking care of my wife.
Meeting the need for affection can be difficult. Some of the creative people on this site have made excellent suggestions in the past. Here are a few ideas that I recall:
1. Adopting a loving pet. 2. Spending time with family such as your children or grandchildren. 3. Confiding in a close friend. 4. Scheduling an appointment with a massage therapist. 5. Finding a cuddle partner or going to a cuddle party if one is available in your area.
Unfortunately, none of the previous options will be the same as having a loving, intimate relationship with your wife. These options will not be as good, but some affection may be better than no affection.
Perhaps it would help for you to consider what your wife is thinking about. She is probably focused on her own problems. Facing serious health issues may lead her to not consider how the people around her are affected by her problems. This does not mean she doesn't care, it just means she may not have space in her mind for what others are experiencing currently. She may be overwhelmed contemplating her own future!
There are other options for finding affection. These would likely be much more damaging to your marriage if your wife discovers them on her own. On the other hand, if you discuss these options in advance, your wife may allow you to change the terms your marriage. For example:
1. Scheduling an appointment with a sex worker. Your wife may view this as a consumer transaction. In other words, you are paying to have your needs met. You are not falling in love with someone else, so your wife may not view this as a threat to your marriage. In some jurisdictions this is illegal, so look into that to avoid problems. Where I live, prostitution is illegal, but escorts are legal.
Paying for sex can become expensive. It may be that your wife would allow you to have sex with someone she does NOT view as a threat to your marriage. If you do some research, you may discover some possibilities. Just a few ideas: Someone considerably younger or older than yourself. Someone she trusts implicitly. Someone who is married and will never divorce. Someone who is disabled with physical or perhaps mental problems. Someone who is an SSBBW. 2. Online affairs. 3. Emotional affairs. 4. Physical affairs.
I don't have enough knowledge to comment on these three options. I've been told that emotional affairs are the most likely to be discovered though.
5. Some of the new sex dolls are quite realistic. These probably would not work for most guys, but they are an option.
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Post by theexplorer on Aug 12, 2021 11:49:21 GMT -5
I can understand your situation, at least to a degree, Catlover. My wife has had some health issues that affected her mobility and ability to function for an extended period of time. Fortunately, she has improved, but she still has many limitations. With her health issues, she could take a turn for the worse at any time.
Adjusting to the role of a caregiver can be DIFFICULT!! It was a tremendous struggle for me!! It took far to long and was vastly more difficult than anticipated! I finally accepted that the wife I used to know is gone! She ain't going to return. There was some grieving the loss, anger, etc. along the path to acceptance. I don't know how you will handle this experience, but it will not be easy!!
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Post by theexplorer on Jul 21, 2021 13:16:58 GMT -5
I finally realized that denying my innate sexual feelings and desires was messing up my life. Anytime we repress our feelings, we are headed for potential trouble. I would NEVER recommend attempting to reach a point where you do NOT want sex!!!
I should add one thing to this thought. It MAY be possible for some people to reach a point where they do NOT want sex in a healthy manner. I read about a guy whose wife left him. Apparently, she treated him badly while they were together.
After they parted ways, he did not have any interest in dating. (He was deeply hurt.) Instead of looking for a new relationship, he immersed himself in other activities, hobbies, etc. that he loved which kept him busy. He claims he is very happy now. He has been divorced for several years, so this method may work.
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Post by theexplorer on Jul 20, 2021 12:46:45 GMT -5
I'm back again. Sorry about the delay. Issues with the extended family have kept me much to busy lately!
Baza, you make a very good point. It's ironic that I spent years focusing on the sexless part of the marriage. Now, I realize that the problems are far deeper than imagined! After finding this board, someone mentioned that lack of sex is rarely an isolated problem. Today, it's obvious that my marriage is in this category also. I honestly did NOT believe that initially.
We have a lack of closeness, but there is also the issue of her stunted ability to love, due to her background. Expecting these challenges to be resolved in a satisfactory manner is unlikely. So that means it is a value call as to stay or go. Thanks again for this advice.
On the subject of humor, we share some of that. Mrs. Explorer has a great sense of humor. There are times when we really enjoy each others company. On the other hand, there are days, particularly when she is in pain, that being together is more difficult. When she is hurting, she can be grouchy!!!
On the subject of seeing a counselor, for whatever reason, I'd rather read several dozen self help books than go see a counselor. Not sure why I'm like this. padgemi, like yourself, I've had a deeper than normal desire for attachment. My parents were very inconsistent in showing love and affection to me. (Most of the time they ignored me.) My older sister died when I was young. I suspect part of the reason for my parents behavior was driven by their need to deal with losing her. A few years after she died, my younger brother was born. He is far more outgoing, aggressive and demanding than me. The little bits of love and attention they shared were normally given to him. (I'm a quiet, introvert.)
Mrs. Explorer deeply dislikes my desire for attachment. She is the opposite. She does NOT like to be close or deeply attached. She wants a fun, superficial relationship that doesn't have any problems. It took years for me to figure this out. Pulling away from her helped our relationship. (Of course, pulling away from her made me more vulnerable to falling in love with someone else.) I may be wrong, but I suspect that pulling away from her is part of the reason she has been willing to have sex now. Of course, on the flip side of this coin, now I miss the attachment.
I can not be certain if her heart is into having sex. She tries to hide her emotions, so "reading" her emotions can difficult. At times, she seems to really enjoy sex. Other times, it seems like she is just trying to make me happy. She is inconsistent.
The more I've thought about this, it may be the best answer is to search for a close friend outside the marriage. I could be close to them instead of her. I've always thought that Mrs. Explorer should be closest to me... Perhaps rethinking that basic assumption is in order. This idea has been considered before now... but for some reason, I've never been comfortable with it. Not sure why it doesn't seem like the right idea.
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Post by theexplorer on Jul 2, 2021 11:18:27 GMT -5
The Title "How can you not want sex" is a question I can address.
I tried for years to reach the point where I did not want sex. The people who have hurt me the most in my life have been sexual partners. After a few decades of such experiences with multiple sex partners and finding myself in a sexless marriage, I figured losing my sex drive was the most logical choice. It was logical, but a horrible choice!
I started out by denying (to myself) that I wanted sex. Then I tried to avoid any thing remotely sexual. (Movies, etc.) I began associating bad things with sexual thoughts. (Every time a sexual thought entered my mind I would think of something revolting.) Over time, my desire and interest in sex declined to a degree.
Unfortunately, losing interest in sex in this manner had some severe unintended consequences. I ended up in a nearly constant state of mild to moderate depression. Over this time period, I lost interest in my hobbies, lost most of my friends, developed a bad attitude, my health went down hill, etc. I entered a downward spiral that led to the darkest period of my life. It was an awful experience!
I finally realized that denying my innate sexual feelings and desires was messing up my life. Anytime we repress our feelings, we are headed for potential trouble. I would NEVER recommend attempting to reach a point where you do NOT want sex!!!
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Post by theexplorer on Jun 22, 2021 15:27:06 GMT -5
I'm back again for a few minutes. This week is much to busy!!!
In regard to what Baza wrote, I'm still planning on staying. Leaving would be difficult and VERY expensive!! I'm trying to figure out how to find a better, happier life. Leaving is an option, but I would rather stay if possible. On the other hand, I'm not ready to leave. Some legal matters would need to be put in order before leaving or outsourcing.
Back to the subject of my wife's resistance to being close to anyone. My wife wants me to be there when she needs me. On the other hand, she seldom will be there for me if I'm going through a difficult period. For example, when any of my wife's friends or family die, she ALWAYS wants me to go to the funeral services, etc. When her family gets together, she wants me to be there. In contrast, during the twenty years that I've known her, she has gone to one funeral for may family or friends. The rest of the times I have gone alone. She will occasionally go to visit my family. Most of the time, I go alone. My family accepts her and several of them like her more than they like me!!
Mirrororchid brings up some excellent points about defining exactly what I desire. If I can communicate that to her effectively, she may respond positively. That has already happened once. One point mentioned during our discussions about this other woman, was my desire to have my wife touch me more often. I'm a guy who LOVES to be touched!! (I'm close to being on the extreme end of the touch spectrum!) Many years ago, my wife was willing to touch me. As the sex dried up in our marriage, she developed an aversion to touching me. It reached the point where the only time I could touch her was when she was asleep. Since our discussion, she has made an attempt to touch me more frequently. I appreciate her efforts. Would I like to be touched more often? Oh yes!!!
I've been working on improving myself. Weightlifting has improved my appearance, along with losing some of that middle aged fat I've accumulated! I was struggling with depression for years. Oddly enough, after the deal with this other woman, the depression has left. I can't explain that!
A couple more questions:
1. How can I tell if my wife has really changed. As Jerri mentioned, I've been concerned that my wife is just offering longer term reset sex.
2. How close should a couple be after 20 year together?
Times up!
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Post by theexplorer on Jun 21, 2021 11:44:46 GMT -5
I'm back for a bit. First off, to address this other woman, she and I are not a great match. I knew that a year ago.. but the "animal attraction" was extremely high! We both knew we were not a good match. This is one of the biggest reasons, we did not get physically involved. We were very deeply attracted to each other, but my better judgement kept screaming, "Don't go there!!!" I suspect she was having a similar reaction!
It doesn't seem like my wife held my the deal with this other woman against me. She was mad. Make no mistake about it. Once she calmed down and I explained to my wife how I saw our marriage, it seemed like my wife realized that she was the primary cause of my behavior. I owned up to what I'd done. I did not try to hide or conceal it. So I don't think it did to much damage to the relationship between my wife and myself.
When I recently saw this other woman again, I was immediately struck with a feeling of happiness. It was great to see her!! I couldn't wait to talk with her. After our conversation, I reflected on the time with her. Then I contrasted that conversation to my reaction to my wife. With my wife, I don't have any emotional reaction upon meeting her or talking with her. There are not any positive or negative emotions. I wouldn't characterize it as total indifference. Unfortunately, it is not far removed from indifference though.
My wife is not receptive to the idea of seeing any kind of therapist. I suspect a good therapist could be a huge help to her. Her memories of her childhood are so painful that she hates to recall the memories. She has repressed and tried to forget them. This is not the best coping strategy, but it is how she does it.
To address one of mirrororchid's points, my wife doesn't like to be close to anyone. She is probably closer to me than anyone else. (Her best friend is her cat!) Mirrororchid is 100% correct that my wife has build a protective shell around her. She HATES to be vulnerable! Once I learned the truth about how her parents treated her, I understand why she is this way. I do NOT blame her! If there is anyone to blame, it would be her alcoholic parents!
After we married, I began to realize that she deeply struggled with the concept that I had her best interests at heart. After being with me for over 20 years, she still struggles with this subject!! She just can't accept it.
On the other hand, her background affects her life and by extension, my life. So, I'm trying to sort out what my options are at this point. I think it would be good for me to have someone I can be close to. I'm questioning if that will ever be my wife though. Perhaps I need a close friend outside the marriage?
I am out of time to finish this reply. Will write more later. In the mean time if anyone has any more thoughts please add them!
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Post by theexplorer on Jun 18, 2021 11:19:26 GMT -5
I have not been on this website much in recent months. Lets start with the good news. About a year ago, I met a woman and fell in love with her. We did not have a physical affair, but there was an emotional connection. Naturally, it did not take long for my wife to get suspicious that something had changed. The wife and I had a long talk about our marriage. I had complained about the lack of sex in our marriage for years, but she did not take me seriously. When she realized that the lack of sex was a "deal breaker" for me, she agreed to have sex. It is not easy for her to have sex. At times, she can't have sex due to her medical issues. (Often a hand job is the best she can do.) But over the last year, she has made an honest effort to meet my sexual needs. To be blunt about it, the sex is not all that great. She has made some efforts to be more attractive though. (Losing some weight, etc.)
Now, I've discovered a new problem and could use some advice on it. After many years of a sexless marriage, I do NOT feel close to her. I like her and we get along reasonably well. Now that we have been having sex, we haven't had any significant arguments. So our marriage is better, but I just don't feel close to her. I have trouble trusting her, because she is not very trustworthy.
My wife grew up in a really bad home. She was physically and emotionally abused by her parents. At times, the abuse was quite severe. She told me the truth about her childhood home after we had been married for 8 years. It is a subject she doesn't like to discuss. The memories are painful. Anyway, I suspect her childhood home plays a role in her life today.
My wife does NOT like to be close to anyone. While we were dating she was close to me. (Or pretended to be close to me.) After we married, she immediately became emotionally distant. At the time I was mystified. Now I realize that in her childhood, she learned that she could not trust ANYONE, EVER. Therefore she refuses to be close to me, or anyone else. At times, she almost feel like a stranger.
This lack of closeness bothers me. I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about it. Now to complicate matters, I recently saw this other woman that I fell in love with a year ago. We had a long talk. She still has feelings for me, and I still think of her often. So, I'm not sure what to do. I don't like the idea of leaving my wife. On the other hand, living with an emotionally distant woman is not easy. Anyone have any advice?
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 3, 2020 19:08:07 GMT -5
I've been wondering if sex is a basic human need. In other words, do we need sex like we need air, water, food, shelter, etc. I've read various, conflicting opinions on the matter. Is our basic human need for sex; for love; for touch or for something else?
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Post by theexplorer on Jan 20, 2020 18:10:12 GMT -5
First, a Thanks to Dan for posting this great information. Learning to navigate the mental health arena can be a challenge!
A couple of folks have mentioned going to a trusted Pastor or other religious leader. I would like to add one caution regarding taking this step. In my jurisdiction Pastors are required by law to notify the Police of certain accusations.
In one case, a boy accused his father of child abuse. The father (who was accused) went to his Pastor for advice. The Pastor did NOT believe the young man's story. The Pastor knew the young man and realized he is an untrustworthy, compulsive liar! Unfortunately, In this area a Pastor is required to notify the Police of ANY accusation of child abuse. (Even an absurd accusation!) The Pastor followed the law and reported the story to the Police.
This false story turned into MASSIVE mess!! The story was printed in the local news paper, smearing the father's reputation. The accused father was arrested and removed from the home. He couldn't see ANY of his children for months! Due to the nature of the accusation, the accused man lost his job. This father had some large legal expenses to clear his name. After a lengthy investigation, the police determined the story was a complete lie. (The Pastor had been 100% convinced of this from the beginning!!)
It might be wise to find out what may result from talking with a Pastor, before confiding in them!
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