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Post by baza on Apr 14, 2018 7:14:52 GMT -5
Our esteemed Sister bballgirl is well known to many of the membership and has been down the ILIASM shithole road and come out the other end of it into a workable and functional situation. Whereas the standard options of stay cheat leave remain available to us, bballgirl ‘s resolution is another variant on the theme...and worth looking at. What happened is this – Bballgirls situation was that of a typical ILIASM deal – and without telling tales (and yes, I have run this story past bballgirl before I posted it) her spouse had been terribly financially irresponsible and plunged the situation into financial crisis. Long story short, after much heartache and angst, she divorced him. Part of the wash up to this was settling the creditors and splitting the finances so they both ended up in control of their own finances. Then Sister bballgirl did what single people do in regard to who she chose to see and who she chose to do whatever she liked with. And utilised her time in getting over Mr bballgirl and the whole big fuck up their deal had been, having a bit of fun and sorting out her stuff. This worked out well, as did the co-parenting etc. Now it turned out that without Mr bballgirls financial irresponsibility to deal with (or subsidise), or his inattention to his health to deal with, and without his sexual refusal to deal with, and with the passage of a bit of time, he wasn’t such a bad bloke as a friend and co-parent. In fact, on that basis he was actually quite a good bloke. To the extent that Sister bballgirl had a sneaky suspicion that they might be able to co-habitate successfully primarily as co-parents and friends BUT with complete autonomy in the financial and sexual departments. She thought on this for quite a while. The single life had not resulted in bballgirl turning up “Mr Right” nor had it resulted in Mr bballgirl having picked up either. So, with the old ILIASM deal dead and buried and divorced for some time, there was a clean sheet, and potentially an opportunity to write a new chapter. After a lot of soul searching, they decided they would give it a whirl (co-habitate as co-parents and friends but with complete financial and sexual autonomy) and with the boundaries clearly defined that's what they mutually agreed to do. And, it has worked out. And now – at last (!!) – to the point of this post. As it turned out, this scenario is a very very close cousin to a “trial separation” set up (although that was NOT the original intent) as the divorce HAD to happen to sort out, end, kill, finish, conclude, rule off and bury the old unsatisfactory and dysfunctional deal. None of what subsequently happened could have happened without that decisive action. Sister bballgirl has made this point, strongly, herself from time to time - that the divorce was the necessary and vital part of moving forward. And that, is the essential point. Now I’d be very wary of suggesting this scenario as a genuine “4th option”, but it certainly bears thinking about. In this instance and thus far, it has worked. Here’s esteemed Sister bballgirl at the other end, with the friend and co-parent component of her life organised, and as I understand it, a very satisfactory sex life independent of the domestic situation.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 14, 2018 7:44:21 GMT -5
baza Thank you for writing this post, I hope it will help the members of this forum find comfort in knowing that there is no cookie cutter solution. As well as: 1) divorce is needed 2) there's life after divorce 3) you just never know how life will turn out, I'm still in shock I wanted back with my ex. (I was actually crying to get him back,the same way I was to leave him) Again the biggest factor here is I could have never figured this out if I didn't get the divorce, as my son said, - who is so emotionally intelligent and I'm so proud of him, he said, "the divorce was needed". It gave me time to focus on myself and figure out what I wanted for myself. I will follow up with an example of this but I have to run my daughter to soccer. Again, thanks baza for writing this so well and helping all of us on this forum.
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Post by rejected101 on Apr 14, 2018 9:17:33 GMT -5
Well done bballgirl. I don’t think this route can ever be a planned route but this shows that it can happen and work out well.
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Post by baza on Apr 18, 2018 23:40:40 GMT -5
Yeah. The plan was NEVER - "to divorce Mr bballgirl with the aim of hooking up with him again a year or so later". The plan was - "to end the ILIASM shithole. Then to sort stuff out. To avail oneself of the benefits of single life. To figure out where to go next". Mr bballgirl did not have any role in the process at that point. That highly unlikely possibility only emerged as a realistic option way way later, much to the surprise of Sister bballgirl , Mr bballgirl , and most of the membership here I'd suggest.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 19, 2018 8:36:24 GMT -5
Yeah. The plan was NEVER - "to divorce Mr bballgirl with the aim of hooking up with him again a year or so later". The plan was - "to end the ILIASM shithole. Then to sort stuff out. To avail oneself of the benefits of single life. To figure out where to go next". Mr bballgirl did not have any role in the process at that point. That highly unlikely possibility only emerged as a realistic option way way later, much to the surprise of Sister bballgirl , Mr bballgirl , and most of the membership here I'd suggest. Exactly that was never the plan and I was so shocked in July of 2017 when I started missing him. I had so many different emotions about things, even this forum and was I being a sellout?, is this Stockholm syndrome?, reflections on the marriage and how things could have gone different, how things can be different now, so many different thoughts. As well that month in July and the feelings that came back for Mr Bballgirl had nothing to do with me being lonely because I was not lonely. There were three different men giving me attention and they helped me to realize that I have a lot in common with Mr Bballgirl- especially our kids but in a lot of other ways and just the comfort of knowing and caring about each other despite the divorce. The divorce was quick and amicable, he even helped me pack despite the fact that he did not want the divorce but that was not his choice I was focused on what I wanted and it was to be not married and not have him in my life other than concerns for the kids. Dating made me realize what was right for me. It turned out while I did enjoy dating for awhile, it got old, here we are asking someone about their favorite food, their favorite travel location, their favorite sexual position, etc. and I got to a point where I didn't care to know that about anyone. I didn't want another man around my children. I also know that relationships are hard work and nobody is perfect and no relationship is perfect. I did not want to put the effort in to have a new relationship. What was interesting while I dated was I allowed myself to become emotionally closer with men that were unavailable 1) married man 2) a man online on the other side of the world - sometimes I was on a date and ready for it to end so I can chat with him online, he is now free from his SM and in a great place and I hope I helped him to get there. Sex was just sex for me and I was having it with my married friend (whose wife knows about me) and the sex is so great I really didn't want it with anyone else. Being in a SM is a huge mindfuck and when you are starving for sex it's all you can think about. I took myself out of the SM so that I could heal, and to my surprise i wanted back with my ex but the rules and dynamics are different. Not being married is huge for me to be with him, I feel mentally and emotionally in a good place right now. I also realize that we are always changing. Just as I was not the same person at 40 as I was at 20 (40 year old me would have left him in year one of marriage), well 56 year old me may not want the same things that 46 year old me wants today. We have to live in the present and do what makes us happy in life. Oh the example I was going to give from the other day: When I was in my SM, I made a list of things I wanted in a spouse and one was for them to come to bed at the same time as me. Turns out I prefer sleeping alone. My ex stays up until 2 or 3 am then comes to bed. I really like my time alone, in fact sometimes I miss my weekends where he had the kids and I was alone most of the weekend, maybe a date or something. On the weekend he may snuggle with me in the morning and that's fine but I'm not starving for affection or attention because I get it elsewhere. I also reconnected with old friends and made new friends during my divorce and I reinvented myself, I'm not the same woman and I have a life and hobbies independent of him. Last month I went with a friend to see the show Waitress and then to dinner. ExH isn't interested in musicals, I had a great time without him. Over the Summer I have beach trips planned, one with the kids and one with girlfriends. The old me was never able to be so independent because of financial reasons and the kids being so young but time moves on and it's important to make sure you enjoy life in whatever way makes you happy and I'm doing that!
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Post by choosinghappy on Apr 19, 2018 9:26:05 GMT -5
bballgirl I think you are awesome for living the life that works for you and for having the “balls” (heh) to make the big changes you had to make in order to be true to yourself. I’m very glad you are happy.
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 25, 2018 14:24:50 GMT -5
Bballgirl's solution could be a great option. I like the idea! There is the question of how often this could be worked out though. Ex spouses are often hostile.
Bballgirl, Why do you think your Ex-husband agreed to this arrangement? Do you think your husband wants your help with the children? Does he have other personal motivations?
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 25, 2018 14:38:21 GMT -5
Bballgirl's solution could be a great option. I like the idea! There is the question of how often this could be worked out though. Ex spouses are often hostile. Bballgirl, Why do you think your Ex-husband agreed to this arrangement? Do you think your husband wants your help with the children? Does he have other personal motivations? [ He did not agree. He does not know. It's don't ask don't tell because we don't- he doesn't want to know, typical refuser avoidant behavior. When we agreed to get back together and try again he never asked if during the year and a half if I dated, if I had sex and if he asked I would tell him but I know him well and he does not want to know. He is content to not be pressured for sex but be in a relationship again and have the family together. My help with children? - things are easier for him now with kids and household Other personal motivation? - I know he's happy having me there when he comes home and he loves me This works for me because 1) I'm not married 2) I'm not sexless 3) I have my family together
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Post by surfergirl on Apr 25, 2018 14:43:28 GMT -5
I've stated elsewhere that bballgirl is my favorite option, given the crap hand I'm dealing with. Problem is, my husband wants my celibacy (not my body, haha). He'd LOSE HIS MIND to know I was fucking someone else. I'm HIS POSSESSION to neglect. He won't fuck me, but dang it, he'd kill the guy who took his place. I don't think the jealousy is uncommon....just the part where nobody is allowed to have me...lol
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 25, 2018 14:50:49 GMT -5
I've stated elsewhere that bballgirl is my favorite option, given the crap hand I'm dealing with. Problem is, my husband wants my celibacy (not my body, haha). He'd LOSE HIS MIND to know I was fucking someone else. I'm HIS POSSESSION to neglect. He won't fuck me, but dang it, he'd kill the guy who took his place. I don't think the jealousy is uncommon....just the part where nobody is allowed to have me...lol Why does he get to have the marriage he wants but you don't? If he is not concerned about your sexuality then it should be none of his business. There are plenty of people that have someone on the side for years because they are very careful, smart, and discreet.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 25, 2018 14:58:38 GMT -5
My own experience, which also involved some complexity, also shares the same tentpoles at the bballgirl option.
1. We agreed to separate, and some time passed for the meaning of that to sink in a bit and dissipate a bit of the fog and deadlock we were in. We ended that relationship and killed it. It failed.
2. The open a crack relationship that we negotiated afterwards was consciously a new relationship. I'm not sure the magnitude of that can be conveyed in words next to the prurient spectacle of it. What I mean is, we agreed to reboot the new relationship as much as possible as if the other was a single parent with two kids, moving into the other side of our semi.
3. I held to that thought as we embarked on the new relationship, holding my patience, tolerance, and the quality of my investment to the same standard as other new relationships in my life. I was able to see it much more objectively than I was before. When it failed to meet my minimum threshold for marriage or even a second date on a consistent basis after a reasonable amount of time and course corrections, I ended the relationship 2.0 and we agreed to separate.
4. After we separated, the intensity of chronic misery subsided, and a couple years later, I was able to see her much more as a protagonist in her own story, rather than the antagonist in mine. I don't know how she feels about me, but it's not really my issue. Letting go much of that anger was helpful for me - in both understanding what I think was her point of view in a way that allows me to live without hatred consuming me.
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 30, 2018 12:04:50 GMT -5
I don't think the jealousy is uncommon....just the part where nobody is allowed to have me...lol Unfortunately, you are not the only one in that group!! Many refusers could have a happier and more secure marriage if they allowed their partner to have a "friend with benefits." This idea is incomprehensible to nearly all refusers!! A sexless life makes their partner unhappy which motivates them to either divorce or outsource. A sexually starved person is NOT going to be happy! A happy, satisfied partner is key to a lasting, secure marriage. Having a satisfying sex life is an important contributor to happiness. If a refuser allowed their partner to have a "friend with benefits," that they will not fall in love with, their marriage would improve. The typical refuser can NOT understand this though!
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 30, 2018 12:41:23 GMT -5
The problem is many if not most of the refused are starved of more than sexual intimacy. They are starved of other kinds of intimacy, too including being listened and responed to when they express their innermost needs. Indeed, some of the refused are responded to regularly with criticism, contempt or stonewalling.
Establishing a fulfilling sex life by outsourcing may bring into sharp relief that sex isn’t all that’s lacking in their marriage. They also may fall for their affair partner.
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Post by theexplorer on Apr 30, 2018 14:07:30 GMT -5
You are right, northstarmom, I did not consider the points you mention. My situation is somewhat unusual on this forum. (Sexless due to health issues.)
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