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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 9, 2017 9:47:08 GMT -5
“Romantic men (to me) are full of shit. I” ?? What’s your idea of a romantic man? I’m with a romantic man. My refuser was not a romantic man. My post sm guy tells me he loves me, compliments my body, takes pleasure in touching me. He can quote beautiful literature. He’s sexually assertive while also enjoying my high libido. What’s not to enjoy? Yep. Everyone has a different idea of romance, but the compliments, telling me how happy he is with me... romance. Offering to pick me up from the station when I had a dodgy ankle (he called this 'basic boyfriend', but it was a world away from what I had before), shining the light from his phone onto dark steps I had to navigate, telling he'll support me in dealing with my ex - all romantic. Even the way he interacts with my son and doesn't try to take over my parenting, but steps in when I need help. And sexually assertive, too. I'm not a hallmark card kinda girl, I don't like splashy cash stuff, I like a frugal man, but all the little things he does for me and the love he shows me - all romance. Romance is about kindling and re-kindling love, blowing on the sparks, keeping the fire alive. It can be a lot of different things, but I love my romantic boyfriend.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 9, 2017 7:25:58 GMT -5
The only significant loss I've had while living wth my refuser was my grandfather who I was very close to and lived with as a child. My ex did a pretty good job of supporting me. Even had sex with me! More importantly he listened to me practice the eulogy and made constructive criticism and constructive praise. Only complaint is that when my brother and I were walking out of the funeral together, he cut in and pushed my brother out of the way. Wanted to claim credit maybe?
Illness - another story, major job stress, another story. Cold and blaming. An asshole.
We all react to death differently. To be honest, I'm not sure I would have been as supportive of him as he was of me, but I hope I would be now to my current partner and including supporting him and my son when my ex's parents die. I certainly was more supportive of him in illness and job stress than he was to me - by a long way.
I'm really sorry for your loss and hope you can find a way to support and comfort from others. And I would say if your W is good on practical matters, than accept that as much as possible. Don't refuse help because it's not offered the way you want it to be offered, if it's genuine help - take it.
I'm having to really work with my current partner to accept help. He is very helpful, he does a LOT for me, he loves helping me, but he is not so good at accepting help. There was genuinely nothing he could do to help with dinner last night because it was already pretty much done when he got home what there was left to do I wanted to do and knew how to do . He flapped a little about not being able to help. He realised what he was doing and just sat down and talked to me while I worked. He said he needed to be better at accepting my labour and support. After dinner he cleaned up the kitchen and the way the kitchen is constructed I would be in the way for a while - I sat down and talked to him for part of the process. What I'm saying is - learning how to accept help is a process, too - and if she can help you deserve to have that help during this time.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 9, 2017 7:04:23 GMT -5
Others have listed the harm - and I concur. It harmed me greatly. But just as much as the 'no sex' harmed me, there was also the fact that I was living with a person who didn't care how much it harmed me because he wouldn't look at his own actions or simply couldn't understand or he was an asshole or there was something wrong with him or he had a hard time demonstrating empathy- or some combo of that. But whatever the reason he didn't care or couldn't act like he cared. I felt unloved and I was definitely without love as I needed it to be expressed.
No you cannot heal while in the sexless marriage, but you CAN take steps to healing. You can make new friends, build support structures, start rebuilding your life. Make other parts of your life as good as possible. For me, outsourcing was part of that, but not the only part. Playing rugby probably helped me more than anything.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 2, 2017 6:06:53 GMT -5
oh - I don't think he realised how stuffed up I was, when he did he did apologise, he knows I have a hang-up about refusal/being refused and why I have it, and we talked about me saying 'no' to that last night and how he thought it was great that I did and that I shouldn't put pressure on myself to say yes.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 1, 2017 4:43:18 GMT -5
Does anyone have a view on whether watching porn and jerking off as a preference to partnered sex being a form of infidelity? It may not be the conventional way to cheat on your partner but sure as hell feels like you are being cheated on! Yes, I absolutely feel that this is infidelity! This was my ex's preference. He much preferred wanking to having sex, usually. I have no problem with masturbation, at all, but I do feel that it is a form of cheating when you do it as a preference. I would sometimes wake up in the night to his vigorous self-love and reach out to touch him only for him to push me away with a noise of disgust. I would sometimes BEG him to do a masturbation moratorium, just for a couple of weeks, to see if it would improve our sex life. He point blank refused. My current partner spends about one night a week away from me and I know that he often masturbates on those nights and so do I. But he definitely prefers partnered sex and occasionally if we have to be away from each other we sometimes sext and masturbate, so it's still 'partnered' sex in a way. Nothing wrong with that.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 1, 2017 4:13:28 GMT -5
yes hopingforachange - I think it is a trigger for worry! And I think you're right that I have sometimes had sex when I was a bit 'meh' about it. Fortunately the sex is such good quality that I know even if I feel meh, after a bit I'll feel YEAH. He and I have a slight sexual 'mismatch' in that he prefers morning and I prefer evening. And yes, we did have sex last night and again this morning. And I still don't feel well, I woke up with a headache and not being able to breathe from a cold. And I actually refused him requested oral sex - and felt really shit about it, but I really hate performing oral sex when I can't breathe through my nose. I'm clearly not completely healed because I felt bad for refusing (still do), even though we did have PIV and frankly not wanting to do oral with a cold and screeching headache is completely reasonable. But I'm starting to get there - I'm starting to worry less. I don't think the amount of sex we have now is really sustainable over years, I want to get to a place where I'm not stressed if we slip down to a 'normal' amount of sex - e.g. 2-4 times a week. One thing that we are both struggling with is that we have both been givers and accommodaters in previous relationships and we are both working on accepting all the little nice things we do for each other.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 31, 2017 5:17:11 GMT -5
This is awesome!
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 31, 2017 5:14:17 GMT -5
Was my refuser aware? I'm not sure that he was. He had a whole range of issues where he was unable to see someone else's point of view or accept responsibility for his part in any problems.
He blamed ME for his lack of sexual satisfaction, saying my vagina was too loose, etc. This partly became a self-fulfilling prophesy. I knew the 'looseness' was bullshit, but I wondered if I put him off by coming on too strong, by wanting too much and not giving him enough 'space' to become fully sexual. He had never slept with anyone else before me. Instead of seeing that as a red flag that he was sexually dysfunctional I blamed myself for not introducing him to sex in a more comforting way. I allowed his twisted thoughts to twist mine. The more he criticised my sexual approach, the more I doubted myself and became less passionate, I allowed my natural sexual self to be suppressed. He complained about everything I did sexually, and instead of seeing that this was part of his refusal, I accepted what he said as truth.
So do they know? Maybe some do, but the capacity for self deception is enormous and many people would rather blame anyone but themselves, while others will blame themselves before they recognise the fault in someone else. When these two types get together AND there is a libido mismatch...well, it's a recipe for disaster.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 31, 2017 3:17:12 GMT -5
Sorry - I should have said that by like I mean - like like - the guy I'm currently seeing, I knew I'd like him as a person and I before we met in person I remember thinking "Please let there be a spark, but if there isn't a spark, then I want to have a friendship with this guy." I generally platonically like or at least not dislike most people and can enjoy myself in most people's company, even fairly objectionable people.
But I quickly made up my mind on most dates that I wanted to be with someone or not. There were a couple of guys that I wasn't sure about and had a couple of dates with. Because I had a FWB, I never slept with anyone out of horniness and the only guy I had sex with from dating post SM is that man that I am with. And I knew by the end of the first date that I really, really wanted to have sex with him and it took a lot to NOT have sex with him on the first date. (In fact, I deliberately left my house super messy so I would be too ashamed to invite him back.) But we agreed to have a second date the next night and, perhaps rashly, the next morning I invited him to dinner at my house, imagining we'd have sex after eating. But supper was served late and lukewarm. I just knew I would have sex with him.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 31, 2017 3:02:28 GMT -5
I've been dating my current beau for 6 months now and it's very, very serious. We have an active and fabulous sex life. So far, we have not had a single overnight together when we didn't have sex at night or in the morning and quite often both. We've both been wondering when it might happen that we didn't have sex.
Obviously I lived in SM for years and he's also had relationships that qualified as sexless, but he didn't hang around forever and has ended relationships (eventually) that became sexless.
Last night we didn't have sex and we didn't have sex this morning either. I wasn't feeling well so didn't initiate last night (which is more 'my' time - he is more of a morning sex person) and he has to get up and out very early on Tuesdays for work so we almost never have sex on Tuesday mornings
And it was fine! I know we'll probably have sex tonight and I'm really looking forward to tomorrow night when my mother (who's been visiting) is gone and it's a no kid night for both of us so we can be as noisy as we like. And we also had plenty of sexual touch last night and this morning.
Obviously I'm not completely comfortable with it because he and I talked about it and I'm posting about it here, but I feel it's a big step forward to not have sex and learn to be ok with it and not wonder and stress that we've not had sex.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 29, 2017 8:41:24 GMT -5
Every single minute I stayed past the decision to leave was a fucking torture. You aren't doing your kids favours if you definitely decide you are going.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 27, 2017 4:16:03 GMT -5
Since leaving, I had to acknowledge that I wasn't filling my ex's emotional bank account, I definitely was not a 'good wife' toward the end. I don't agree that we don't have responsibility for our spouse's emotional 'bank accounts' - we throw in our lots together, money, life, emotions and physical needs. We each have the ultimate responsibility for those needs, but we are supposed to be looking after each other.
I felt the 'marriage' part was over because my ex wasn't doing his part of the deal supporting me emotionally, physically, sexually. He was a shit husband. I withdrew. He became even more reluctant to be a good husband. If you think that there is anything that can be done to save your marriage, you have to take the risk to support your spouse in the way that they need to be supported and they have to do the same. If you think that there isn't any point, so be it - you may be right -there certainly wasn't any point in my marriage. But I can't pretend I was a 'good wife' or even a wife who met his emotional needs at the end.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 26, 2017 12:55:53 GMT -5
shamwow - well, I wasn't immediately ready to date when I came out of my sexless marriage but pretty soon thereafter - why wait?. As it happens my son wasn't happy when I told him I was seeing someone, he is only 10 and found it a bit unsettling. But my boyfriend is really, really great and they get on really well. Would he prefer it if his dad and I never split up - well, probably in his head he would. But i am happy now, loved and certainly loved in a way that I can see and feel. Because I live very far away, I didn't tell her I was dating when I did. I certainly didn't tell her I'd been having an affair for a few years and that I was continuing to see my affair partner while I was dating!
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 26, 2017 8:09:02 GMT -5
I live across an ocean from her - but when she visits, she does what she can to undermine and she can't stand for me to do 'better' than her. My boyfriend is nice looking (if you like his type) and works for a prestigious organisation and is smart and funny and part Jewish - all things my mother admires!!! He also has an easy relationship with my son and is so much nicer than my ex and a year younger than me. She's comparing him to her second husband and thinks I've done better - she can't stand that. I find it quite hard to set effective boundaries with her because she sneaks in these little things with a bit of plausible deniability. "I didn't mean it that way... you're too sensitive..." typical gaslighting stuff. She's been telling "amusing stories" that show me in a bad light, but if I were to complain... greatcoastal - he's my boyfriend, I'm still technically married to my former refuser. We've been dating for around 6 months, but when you know - you know. I know I'm overweight, signficantly, but he's always known me at this weight and desires me, so he's obviously fine with it. I want to lose weight to be a bit more mobile (I have some old injuries that weight aggravates) but I'll never be skinny and that's fine.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 26, 2017 5:49:56 GMT -5
So my mother is visiting for the first time since I started dating my new guy. She really likes him - maybe a little too much. She thinks he's quite good looking and admitted that she was a bit jealous when she first saw him.
So yesterday she said to me "It's almost like he's too good to be true. But maybe it will work out for you, you might get lucky. But just be aware these things don't always work out."
Yeah - No Shit - things don't always work out. But I can read the subtext - she thinks I'm not good looking enough for him (I'm quite overweight) and that I'm too messed up in the head for him.
I told him about this and he was very supportive. I am the happiest I've ever been with a man. He's amazing. He's hardly perfect, but he's great for me. We have an amazing sex life. We work well together. We are just relaxed and happy together. He is great with my son and when his kids are here, it's like the family life I've always dreamed of - boisterous, but good natured.
But somehow she's sowed a seed of doubt in my head. Which is what she wanted to do. No wonder I accepted less than I deserved.
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