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Post by elkclan2 on Dec 3, 2019 3:44:32 GMT -5
Thank you DryCreek - that's the thing that was bugging me - that someone who wants sex 3-4 times a week obviously has something WRONG with them. Not - as others have rightly pointed out - if X wants 3 times and Y wants 1 or none - both have a problem because neither are getting what they want from a relationship. My partner and I have sex more than 4 times a week. But everyone's happy. It doesn't mean that we're compensating for something else, it's that this is one of the ways we express affection and care for each other, plus it feels good and is fun.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 28, 2019 9:41:47 GMT -5
I don't disagree with your analysis. I do disagree with the original author being all "3 times a week? - your partner must have a problem".
I also think it's possible that sometimes people have genuine libido mismatch and maybe someone wants sex twice a week and the other person wants sex 4 times a week.
I think we also over-emphasize the 'problem' of having sex you don't want. I had sex I didn't intially 'want' last night. But I knew my partner really did want it. Turns out it was really hot. That being said having sex you really do not want to have is awful.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 28, 2019 7:16:49 GMT -5
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 22, 2019 5:08:22 GMT -5
I am a bookworm and have read many books on sexless marriage cures. Most boil down to it being the guy's fault and he should do more around the house, be more romantic and be more supportive. Maybe I am only reading the cures for guys but very few buttkick the women for doing little more than turning up and expecting the guy to be grateful. Sorry, being cynical today. I had a great friend who was a world class seducer of women. They adored him. When we were a few beers shy of sober he would ruefully lament how many women were rubbish at sex. He also said 99% of men were ROROs (roll on roll off) which was why guys like him were so popular. A book not about to cure your sexless partner but a book for that partner would be great. To be fair, the book for 'Sex starved wives' is basically all about doing more around the house, reducing any kind of pressure on your refusing husband, etc. etc. I tried it and all it did was increase my workload and his expectations, I certainly didn't get any more sex or gratitude or appreciation. And we were already working from a really low base. Bleh. I now have a guy who does loads around the house AND fucks me on the regular. Yay!
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 20, 2019 3:43:32 GMT -5
My spontaneous desire levels fluctuate wildly. Knowing this about myself DOES help. I also know that my responsive desire levels remain pretty steady. That is, I could really, genuinely not be 'in the mood' for sex, but I know that I'll have a good time, so I give an enthusiastic yes. I only ever say no when I feel like sex will make me feel worse (like I'm sick and nauseous), but my partner is a sensitive guy so he doesn't initiate if I'm obviously feeling nauseous or something like that so I don't actually say no very much. Oddly enough we were talking about this last night and he could not remember a single time when I'd said no to a sexual advance.
It also helps to talk to my partner about my spontaneous desire levels. So yeah, there are many times during the month when I probably won't initiate. But that's ok. There are other times when I will!
ETA:
There have been times when I've cut off a likely advance by him by telling him how I feel (sick) and that Im not likely to want sex. But that's just communication. He does the same to me. At bed time we often check in with how we are feeling if it's not obvious. Sometimes it's 'I really don't feel like sex tonight, but I'd like some in the morning', sometimes it's 'I feel shite, please take care of me by giving me tissues and cuddles.' and sometimes it's 'I could go either way, let me know if you want sex.' Of course, this is inside a relationship where neither of us feels deprived and we make sure we feel that way and we also have quite a lot of sex, 2.5 years into our relationship - averaging over once a day. We were both quite sick recently with a cold that we both said affected our libidos (that doesn't usually happen for either of us, but this one did). We still had sex on average once a day. So this approach works for us because we're working from a high baseline.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 8, 2019 3:38:20 GMT -5
I became Cinderella. I waited on her hand foot and finger. Since all the books said this would stop her feeling overworked and unappreciated it felt the right move. Turned out I became overworked and under appreciated. I did this one. It's a recommended approach in the sex starved wife along with no pressure. So then you become sex starved and overworked and under appreciated. He only seemed to notice my extra effort when I stopped doing it. I'm now in a relationship where my partner does more than his fair share (I think) and also thanks me for every meal I make (I do most of the cooking). He did make me do most of the work in bed this morning though. ;-)
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 7, 2019 15:04:42 GMT -5
I think it's a tough call. I think it's important that kids feel validated even if it means counteracting the other parent.
My partner is not an angry guy but one time he absolutely flipped over a restaurant order that was wrong and sent back, still wrong and sent back and then still wrong. He's a fussy eater, so he's always super clear about these things - there are a few things he cannot eat. And not one of us can eat mayo at all and this was a mayo related incident. He was so angry he had to walk outside to calm down.
My stepkids were like - ok, parents flip. Dad doesn't flip, but they're used to mom flipping all the time. She has rage issues. She's BPD. But they were a little surprised. My son was SHOCKED. He's never seen my partner act like that. I basically didn't excuse, I stayed calm and said "Ok he's had a flip out, but he'll be back soon and it will be ok. Obviously it's not cool to act like this. But he knows that." He came back a few minutes later and apologised.
It's harder as a SM when I hear things about their mom that are far worse than what my partner did. I say nothing. But I feel really complicit in her abuse. I want to say "Y'all know that's not ok." I mean I seemingly tolerate behaviour from her that I wouldn't be ok with in my ex or current partner. I mean, when my ex was being rude to (mainly ignoring) my stepson who'd greeted him very politely I did say something to them about how it's definitely not about them or even the situation and it's also not ok. He's just a rude bugger - he treats a lot of people the same way (I think he's on the autism spectrum and is gruff in social interactions). Since my stepson has become interested in my partner's special interest, my ex has been quite generous to my ss. But he's really only able to relate to people well through his special interests.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 7, 2019 14:45:41 GMT -5
My partner definitely focuses on things other than me/ our relationship. But I usually don't feel 2nd. HIs work is really important to him. He gives me space and support for my work. He watches my kid and I watch his kids when work conflict arises. We have minor children. We both prioritise kid time. Him more than me because he sees his kids less. I know if I don't feel happy about something, I can tell him.
My ex - I was below almost everything - especially his hobbies and after he took his dark dive on politics - his idea of how Mars Men and Venus Women should interact - despite the fact that neither one of us are exactly archetypal gender stereotypes.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 7, 2019 14:28:27 GMT -5
Hmmm - so I just now took the quiz again and got "Acts of Service" as my top love language. It has never been at the top for me before. My partner and I have tons of sex (touch is a close 3rd), we both value spending time together (quality time is my 2nd). Before words of affirmation came up quite high, but this time quite low. Gifts only got one point. I mean - hey, I like gifts!
Here's the thing. I have a great relationship. We tell each other all the time how much we appreciate each other. We try to spend a lot of time together. I really enjoy his company. We have a lot of sex and a lot of touch. Our touch isn't non-sexual - but we often hug and hold hands, but I don't think of it as non-sexual touch. My SM partner was shit on all accounts. But he was very verbally critical - verbally abusive. I not only hungered for touch but for words of affirmation. Of course, he pretty much did fuck all around the house and what he did do was all 'point scorey'. my partner now has always done little acts of service for me. And I have really, really come to appreciate it. And I tell him. But he also tells me all the time how much he really appreciates what I do for him, who I am, that he's in a relationship with me.
My old score really reflected what I was missing - and who I am. And my new score really reflects what I've come to appreciate and who I am.
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Post by elkclan2 on Nov 4, 2019 12:15:20 GMT -5
There's a big thing about new relationship energy. Most people can be sexual in the beginnings of a relationship - to some extent.
My ex is now dating someone and he's being just as an inappropriate as he's always been. He dumped my kid off on me (happy to have him) so he could go on an 'exciting first date' and then four days later asked me to change around weekend visitations to match hers. That was a no - because we have six people who've made plans around that for a long time.
Part of me is like 'whatever' but part of me is like - whoah dude, back up the truck. It seems to be speeding along. I just hope him latching on so quickly doesn't burn my son. And also, I think he would make one of the worst step parents ever.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 23, 2019 13:18:55 GMT -5
I think there's also another gender myth/truth (I don't know if it's a myth or truth!!) that may be affecting behaviour. Basically women are raised to believe that men 'always want it' and men are raised to believe that women 'say no a lot'. This wouldn't matter to the general population, but in terms of this group it might. So after realising it isn't them, women realise a bit quicker that there's something off about their male partner. They also believe that if they find another partner he's likely to want to have sex. Men, perhaps, less so. I needed to leave because there was much more obviously wrong with my marriage.
I actually do plan on getting married again. I adore my man and I want to be all in with him. We've been engaged for a while now. No super rush on getting married. We hedged the living together thing for a while, both of us having properties but have been officially living together since April/May. It's awesome.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 11, 2019 6:24:51 GMT -5
I've been on various anti-Ds over the years. If any dulled my libido, it didn't dull it to the point where I noticed (beyond the initial few days where you feel like crap so wouldn't feel like sex anyway). At that point in my life I would have seen that as a blessing. I did have some of the anorgasmia on sertraline (I think that one) but that didn't last too long - a couple of months, maybe? But those were pretty frustrating weeks.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 10, 2019 3:05:17 GMT -5
Nah, my ex has tried dating. Has complained about his lack of success. He said he didn't think he was cut out for relationships. I said I was sure that there was someone out there for him (but secretly agreed with him). He hasn't been in a romantic relationship since we split. I have no way of knowing if he's 'hooked up' with anyone, but it doesn't sound like it. I did come across him on a dating app. He did not have sex with anyone before me. I don't know if he has since. It's not ego salving for me to know that he's sexually dysfunctional, frankly I'm an idiot for denying it for so long and putting up with it. I've had bad sex with people who I'm sure were perfectly good in bed with other people and I'm sure vice versa. Not everyone is attracted to me. From what you've said over time about your preferences Apocrypha I doubt very much that you would be attracted to me. That's ok. From what you've said over time, I don't know if I would be attracted to you or not. Nothing you've said about yourself has made me think I wouldn't be. I might well be. If I were, we'd have an imbalance of attraction. That doesn't mean that either of us is broken in some way or that I'm not attractive (to others) or damn good in bed. But my ex is sexually broken and at different times in our relationship also was not attracted to me - those are different things. That they are different things, probably doesn't matter. It still resulted in a sexless marriage. Aside from the sex, he's also shit in relationships. I think that's where his lack of dating success really matters. There are no doubt women out there who would like to not have that much (or any) sex in their romantic relationships. But he's also incredibly selfish, thoughtless and self-absorbed. And he's willing to use verbal and emotional abuse to get his needs met regardless of his partner's (or child's) needs. It so happens that I think he's not really romantically attracted to stupid women or to women who are very much younger than him, so his dating pool of smart, mature women isn't too likely to see him as a good candidate for a romantic relationship. I do very much fear that he finds a broken woman, as that would not be good for my son.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 10, 2019 2:51:41 GMT -5
I understand that paranoia. I didn't transition into couple-hood with my AP. That was never on the cards. I did continue with my affair after I left. He actually broke it off when I started to get serious about my current partner. But he is, afaik, still with his wife. (Ive been thinking I should check in with him soon!). But other than the emotional entanglement and family fall out of transitioning from an affair to a public committed relationship, I think all relationships go through these kind of dating to settled phases.
I'm only 2.5 years into my post SM relationship, so things may change. I remember at one point, before we were officially living together, but maybe shortly after we were de facto living together, my partner spent the evening doing hobby stuff instead of being 100% attentive to me. I spent the evening doing my own thing. He said he felt guilty about not focusing all his attention on me. But I said y'know we're not really dating anymore and I love being in the same room with you, but I need time doing parallel activities myself. We now have the room set up so we're both have comfortable spaces to do our own thing. And yes, sometimes we have stressful weeks where we don't spend 'enough' time together. Sometimes, I just say "I need some time with you this week". He makes that call on me sometimes. I suppose right now we're pretty lucky in that we have kid days and non-kid days. Kid weekends and non-kid weekends. So we have particular times that we know we have together and those external boundaries on our time as a couple mean that we make those days special (usually - I'm super busy with work right now...) that may be harder in some ways when the kids are fully out of the house! But we have a ways to go before that happens.
Our sex life has probably never been particularly experimental. Bizarrely. We are both sexually adventurous. I mean, sometimes it is. But the basics of our sex life is so good, that we're not super adventurous. We've both laughed about this. Our sex life is soooo much more experimental than the shitty sexual relationship I had with my ex. There's almost always some form of oral. There's a little other stuff, too. We play rough sometimes, we're both a bit switch. It's not bland. But at this point we know what works.
Y'know how when you were in your SM and people said - set aside time together, do date nights, schedule sex, blah, blah, blah. And it was useless advice? Well, in your case it isn't useless advice. Set aside some time. Make a date. Schedule some hot sex. Make some kinky rules. Occasionally, I make a rule that he can only cum inside me once a day. (We still have a LOT of sex.)
Honestly though, once we've been together 8 years, I'll see it as success if we're having sex 2-3 times a week. I'd be happy if there were more, but I don't think I'd see it as a failure at all if we were having sex twice a week. Like you, I'd check in to see that we were both happy, but it's not a bad hit rate! Give yourself some credit and enjoy what sounds like a successful relationship.
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Post by elkclan2 on Sept 24, 2019 7:26:32 GMT -5
Kind of a sidebar to the thread, but FWIW... Im pretty certain 95% of men in LTRs, myself included, completely misunderstand the "venting" aspect that women want/need. While each relationship is unique, Im pretty sure that if most men paid more attention to this aspect rather than trying to get laid, they'd get laid more often. Thats not to critique you ironhamster or say you did anything wrong. But I thought you raised an interesting yet vital point that doesnt get enough attention. Women tend to be emotionally driven. Nothing wrong with that except that it leaves most men bewildered in my opinion. Ive seen that the minority of men who can navigate the emotions without being a dick or condescending, seem to have healthy relationship dynamics. A friend who falls in this category recommended that I pay more attention to what W does rather than what she says. I myself tended to be a dick or condescending at times to the detriment of the relationship. While its taken me awhile, Im trying to be better than that these days. You know, sorting my shit out. And btw being the "nice guy" doesnt work either. I think most women either see through that or are repulsed by it. The nice guy seems to be wrought full of covert contracts. I remember early on in my marriage, my wife was experiencing some frustration and explained her situation. I thought through it and gave her some helpful advice. She responded that she didn't need solutions, she just needed to vent. I guess another way to think about it... is rather than saying women are emotionally driven, perhaps women are no more well disposed to an assumption that we've got it wrong by someone who wasn't there than men are?? I think sometimes men think "She's fucked it up, so I'll offer her my helpful advice, even though I've not been party to the situation and know less about it than she does..." then they're surprised when it doesn't go down well. "It must be because she's emotionally driven..." Imagine yourself driving down the street, some guy cuts you up in his car. You're on the phone to your wife and say "What a jerk...learn how to drive moron!" Your wife says "Honey, if you just kept proper following distance and indicated in a timely fashion, you could avoid these kind of mishaps." And there might even be a grain of truth to it, maybe she's seen enough of your driving to know that you're perhaps not always the most considerate/attentive/ (whatever) driver on the road. And certainly everyone should keep a safe distance and indicate properly so it's not bad advice, is it? Look, my partner vents, he's a guy. You vent. You're venting just now. So let me offer you some advice... Not every grumble is a plea for help. Dealing with humans - whether colleagues or asshole drivers - is at least somewhat emotionally driven. But constantly offering advice when it's not asked for is patronising. You wouldn't like it either and it's a form of entitlement. It's not just a guy thing, most parents have to deliberately un-learn it as their kids get older, and women can be patronising assholes, too. It's just that I've seen you guys make that mistake time and time again, and it's avoidable if you just apply a little thought and logic.* Just trying to help. _____ * pretty annoying, eh?
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