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Post by baza on May 30, 2019 20:29:31 GMT -5
It's been a while, giving me time to think and for life to deliver its surprises. My wife's tests showed need for surgery and we are awaiting a date. I know some could leave but help as a friend, but that is not me. I choose to stay and help her through this. All bets are off until we are on the other side of the operation and recovery. I have chosen to stay, an informed not a forced choice. I reckon that if I was in the same position as you describe, my short term choice would be the same as yours Brother lessingham . Besides, if the surgery is pretty imminent, your preparations to leave (if that's the way you are heading) are probably are not advanced enough to put in to action anyway.
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Post by baza on May 30, 2019 20:16:23 GMT -5
Meanwhile, back at the original thread pertaining to outsourcing / cheating ....
T think that whatever you end up choosing to do, you've got to take ownership of.
You are currently experiencing the consequences (good or bad) of the choices you made some years back. You need to own that.
And, whatever you choose to do today will result in consequences (good or bad) tomorrow. And you need to own that too.
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Post by baza on May 30, 2019 3:29:54 GMT -5
I don't really believe in types so much. But I do believe in chemistry. I think chemistry can totally exist even with the "wrong" (i.e. not your type) person. Mark Manson has some views on this subject Sister workingonit . Indeed he reckons that a combination of someone you have chemistry with, but not much compatibility with, is a recipe for disaster.
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Post by baza on May 29, 2019 1:31:06 GMT -5
As you'd probably gather from the responses here - and the comments generally in the group - refusing spouses are not usually ogres with no redeeming features at all.
The thing is, your spouse brings there various attributes to the joint venture, and you bring yours. Then, they are all mixed together. And the result is - - a high level of compatibility and chemistry - an acceptable level of compatibility and chemistry - a borderline level of compatibility and chemistry - an unacceptable level of compatibility and chemistry - a low level of compatibility and chemistry.
And, if the mix fails to come up to expectations, that ain't necessarily anyone's fault. The failure of the mix does NOT necessarily make your spouse (or you) a failure.
What it does do however, is reveal that you are with an unsuitable person to realise your version of a marriage.
Your various attributes may - with the right person - produce a great mix. Similarly, your spouses various attributes may produce a great mix - with the right person.
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Post by baza on May 27, 2019 18:07:29 GMT -5
Lets assume something Brother heathcliff . Let's assume she IS cheating, and you know it to be fact. That would probably have you questioning whether to continue to be married to her or not. Just as you would be considering whether to stay married to her if there was some other dealbreaker behaviour in play - like a gambling habit or wild overspending or any one of a multitude of potential "whys". In my deal, my missus may have been cheating on me, I dunno whether she was or not, and I didn't even check that out in any depth. That wasn't the issue. The problem was NOT what she may (or may not) have been doing outside of the marriage - rather, the problem was what she was NOT doing within the marriage. She was not behaving as a life partner behaves. There was no "us", just two co-habitators with very different versions of what a marriage was. That, is what drove our deal into the ditch .... fundamental incompatibility. Whether she was cheating or not was a bit of a side-bar that didn't particularly matter (tho' I must admit that if I'd found out she was cheating as well, I would have been even more pissed off) There comes a time in ILIASM deals when the "why" no longer matters. It just "is what it is". And that leaves you with some very confronting choices in front of you. Suggestion - Like northstarmom (above) says - see a lawyer and establish how a divorce would shake out for you. Getting that advice commits you to precisely nothing, but it is critical information you need to know if you are to make a fully informed choice about your way forward.
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Post by baza on May 26, 2019 21:07:58 GMT -5
I think there is also another dynamic where the partner is so sex averse that we (the refused) also inadvertently train them to withdraw all physical touch and warmth. They worry that everything will be seen as an overture to sex. I was guilty of that years ago. I'm smarter now but...too late. There's a bit in what you say @tooyoungtobeold2 . After prolonged periods where there has not been any touch, and your spouse innocently and accidently brushes past you and the back of your hands touch momentarily, the deprived spouse can leap to the (erroneous) conclusion that it is a sign that an approach for more meaningful touch is warranted. When there's not much touch or sex happening in your life, you tend to latch onto any touch like a limpet. And give it way more gravitas or importance than it actually warrants.
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Post by baza on May 26, 2019 3:22:26 GMT -5
FWIW, the evidence in this group is that the members who take responsibility for - and ownership of - their ILIASM situation are the members who bring their situations to resolution.
Making what may seem to be an "easy"* short term choice - to let it run on uncontrolled - hasn't got much of a record of success in this group.
*easy - being a relative term. There is very little that is easy in these situations.
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Post by baza on May 25, 2019 21:22:06 GMT -5
I've been thinking on this, thought I'd better put it out there for you Sister WindSister . You 'might' have a case of PTSD over all this. Now you are a very smart and resourceful woman, but PTSD is no respecter of that, and maybe, just maybe, that might be worth your while checking out. And your schedule seems pretty packed with activity at the moment, perhaps hindering your ability to process this major event. Thinking of you Sister.
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Post by baza on May 25, 2019 21:07:38 GMT -5
Just been re-reading your posts Brother spencer . You do seem to be edging toward the (perfectly valid) cheating option, so I thought I'd offer you this. The cheating option is invariably a game changer and produces all sorts of consequences. Trouble is, things can fly off at unknown (and unknowable) tangents, up to and including the collapse of your primary relationship - which might not be a bad thing in the longer term scheme of things. But this is not something to do on a half arsed whim. It is deadly serious stuff If you are going down this path, you need to prepare just like you were planning to divorce, because that is highly likely to be the outcome that ensues from this option. See a lawyer in your jurisdiction and establish how a divorce would shake out for you. Start putting together a theoretical exit strategy about how you'd live your life as a single if you had to. Shore up your support network. And, if you aren't up for that preparatory work, then I'd counsel you not to go down this path. It is a minefield, and going into it on anything other than a fully prepared basis is just asking for trouble.
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Post by baza on May 25, 2019 20:41:05 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother spencer - "I'm not naturally good at finding friends with benefits in real life, but perhaps i need to develop that skill" Developing your skill at finding friends (full stop) and building a support network is not such a bad strategy. In a "Friend With Benefits" scenario, first comes the "friends" bit. Then, maybe, perhaps, possibly, comes the "Benefits" part of the deal. It doesn't work the other way around - ie you don't get the benefits straight off. (Well, usually that's true but an opportunistic one night stand with a stranger situation could possibly go that way I guess).
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Post by baza on May 25, 2019 20:26:08 GMT -5
Yes, I think that types exist.
I ain't so sure that this knowledge (that types exist) is particularly useful however.
See, there are people out there who enjoy exploring their sexuality, and there are others box it up and try to bury it. But that is the "general" macro view.
In an ILIASM situation, you need to get down to the micro view. That is to say does YOUR spouse specifically enjoy exploring their sexuality, or box it up and try to bury it, or just doesn't have it at all ?
You need to deal with the situation you are actually in.
If you are in an ILIASM deal, that's the fact that has to be dealt with.
What might apply generally to the population at large is really only of academic interest if you are in an ILIASM deal.
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Post by baza on May 25, 2019 2:42:00 GMT -5
I'm going back in to history here, but my ex missus was a really good financial partner. She had a really cutting sense of humour too. She was a good mother and Aunty, Sister. She had some good attributes, no question about that.
But unfortunately what she brought to the table (good and bad) - and what I brought to the table (good and bad) - resulted in a pretty dysfunctional mix. And in the long run, the mix produced an ILIASM deal that was not capable of sustaining itself, and it ended.
But, as a single issue, yes, my missus did have some good attributes.
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Post by baza on May 24, 2019 2:22:23 GMT -5
If you join this group it is a given that you are only too well aware what living in an ILIASM deal is like. You are probably something of an expert in this field.
What you probably don't usually know a real lot about, is what the alternative - not being in an ILIASM deal - might look like., or how you might get there. So if you are to make a fully informed choice about your way forward, it is the "not being in an ILIASM deal" area where you are probably not particularly well informed.
Consequently, many comments on your post might attract ask some very pointed questions about the advisability of the "staying" option. And put forward the "leaving" option for consideration. That might come across as endorsing the "leave" option as the path that ought be followed by everyone. Or perhaps it might come across as "stuffing the leave option down your throat". That's not really the message.
I think that the underlying message here is, that you need to make a fully informed choice. And just about any member here is - or was once - an expert in being fully informed about what living in an ILIASM deal is like. And there are a number who are fully informed about what not being in an ILIASM deal is like too. So consequently, a lot of comment/suggestion/advice is slanted toward the leave option .... the option that a newbie may not know a real lot about.
See, if you fully check out the leave option, and add it to your first hand knowledge of what the stay option involves, then, you can make a fully informed choice. Without that information, you are not fully informed. "What" you choose is entirely down to you .... but as long as you make a fully informed choice, you really can't go too far wrong.
And it seems that those who have made a fully informed choice are the happier people on here - whether they made a fully informed choice to leave or to stay.
On the other hand, if you make a choice based on only half the information .... only half the options .... the chances of that working out in your longer term best interests are not real good.
Again, this is NOT pushing the line that the "leave" option is the way to go for all. Nor is it pushing the line that the "stay" option is the answer for all either. But it IS certainly pushing the line that you need to make a fully informed choice, own it, and live it.
What that choice ultimately is, is entirely your business, and no-one else's.
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Post by baza on May 23, 2019 20:45:59 GMT -5
A plug in to your 'in real life' support network might be timely Sister WindSister . Meantime, know that as far as we can in this environment, we've got your back.
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Post by baza on May 23, 2019 20:19:55 GMT -5
I don't feel completely unappealing and don't have any particular impetus to change much. I'm healthy, reasonably active, gainfully employed and have only an average amount of crazy but I know i'm not a George Clooney lookalike with a trust fund either. Where I am is that I'm not willing to let go of what I have which is mostly good (including for the stability of our kids-we're not hideously dysfunctional, just sexless) for the theoretical notion of a more intimate life. I know venting-stayers are frustrating for those of you who solved their situation by leaving it. However, the discussions are helpful for us. If you join this group it is a given that you are only too well aware what living in an ILIASM deal is like. You are probably something of an expert in this field. What you probably don't know a real lot about, is what the alternative - not being in an ILIASM deal - might look like. So if you are to make a fully informed choice about your way forward, it is the "not being in an ILIASM deal" area where you are probably not particularly well informed. Consequently, many comments on your post might attract ask some very pointed questions about the advisability of the "staying" option. And put forward the "leaving" option for consideration. That might come across as endorsing the "leave" option as the path that ought be followed by everyone. That's not really the message. I think that the underlying message here is, that you need to make a fully informed choice. And just about any member here is - or was once - an expert in being fully informed about what living in an ILIASM deal is like. But not too many are fully informed about what not being in an ILIASM deal is like. So consequently, a lot of comment/suggestion/advice is slanted toward the leave option .... the option that a newbie may not know a real lot about. See, if you fully check out the leave option, and add it to your first hand knowledge of what the stay option involves, then, you can make a fully informed choice. "What" you choose is entirely down to you .... but as long as you make a fully informed choice, you really can't go too far wrong. On the other hand, if you make a choice based on only half the information .... the chances of that working out in your longer term best interests are not real good.
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