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Post by twotimesone on Dec 25, 2017 1:52:50 GMT -5
In my early days the original to this forum gave me hope and helped me interact with people in a similiar situation. It also gave me acceptance of my deal. I had gone through stages of sexless marriage, and had engaged in an affair, seperated and moved in with affair partner, then reconciled with my refuser. Of course the increased sex was short lived after reconciling. Now i make the informed choice to accept my deal for what it is. A marriage of joint parental and financial convenience. For now i am willing to accept this situation. Some time later i might wake up and decide this situation is no longer working for me. Totally agreed with you. Many of us including myself, I came here thinking that the problem with the SM is my fault, and it is our responsibility to fix it. Coming here, perhaps I come to believe that the problem is not our fault, and probably there's no way to salvage this situation. For me, I am still in the closet stage. Going to just outsource and until when my kids get out of the house. Plan to retire early and just take my money and live as some dirty old man.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 24, 2017 22:38:58 GMT -5
I think it depends on the situation on if which one of the spouse wants the divorce more. For me, I want the normalcy of having married life and my W threatens me with divorce all the time. Maybe what's killing me, is trying to keep the family together at my expense is killing me and living happily after is just a BS fairy tale. I just wait until the day when my kids are out of the house and then get out of here.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 24, 2017 22:20:17 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that. I don't know if this makes you feel better, one of my friends' wife passed away due to illness and was able to re-marry a few months later.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 19, 2017 16:38:32 GMT -5
See - that's the thing: the refused is the "bad person" for outsourcing, but the refuser never has any stigma assigned. SM is one of those cases where doing nothing, sets in motion all kinds of bad - yet leaves the person causing it to walk away looking totally innocent while everyone blames the victim. That's why rule #1 is be sneaky about and try not to get caught. And it is best if you do it with someone who is not involved in your personal life. Looking at the Post SM forum, some find happiness, some don't find happiness, my intention is not to be in that category until later in my life. Like I said, being with my W, I don't want to be emotionally involved in a relationship.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 19, 2017 15:54:03 GMT -5
I hear you and I am in the same shoes. The only way that we can have sex is if I go to her bedroom (yes we sleep on different beds) and she will lie down like a starfish and have sex. Financially, it is cheaper for me to just outsource than go thru a divorce especially with kids involved. When the kids are out of the house and I will be on my way too. Perhaps monthly it is cheaper (assuming due to child support) , but as people grow older they become more established. Your assets may grow over time and counter balance child support. Plus, if you are married for a longer period of time you may also be liable for spousal support (alimony). This usually tends to kick in as soon as the kids fly free. If you think you will eventually leave you should see a lawyer to see how it would shake out in both scenarios. You also have to take into account that outsourcing could blow up in your face at any time. Things can get really nasty as you get cast as the bad guy on the way out. Thanks, I hear what you are saying. I personally like to go home and have kids around the house. If I were to leave, and find another woman, I just have this pessimistic view of getting married and go thru another SM again. So my intention is that I don't want to get married again. As for the outsourcer, we don't know where each other live and the only way to contact her is using my burner phone which I text her. My W knows that I am already unhappy in the marriage, and she asked me the other day if the marriage wasn't the way I wanted. Emotionally, I am not going to invest in my marriage and me and my W knows it. As for the Financial part, I will probably retire early and then live in some 3rd world country as an dirty old man. By then, my W, who is a few years older than me, will probably be on medicare and the alimony would maybe be less of an issue.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 19, 2017 13:38:19 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why the difficulty of her re-entering the dating scene is of concern to you. My ex-wife is essentially asexual. She may or may not ever date again. However, this is no longer my concern. In all seriousness I hope that she finds a man who has some sort of sexual dysfunction who wants someone to care for him and who can provide her with the lifestyle she has grown accustomed to. I don't bear her ill will but also don't consider her happiness my responsibility anymore. Well, because I love her and care for her. I know if we separated now, she'd be better off with someone else then being alone. It would be a hard shock I believe for her to get back into it. It seems to me, that for her getting married was more of a checklist of how to get through life, and the intimacy was just a precursor to getting married. Now from married, it goes to having kids. From having kids, to raising kids, etc. I hear you and I am in the same shoes. The only way that we can have sex is if I go to her bedroom (yes we sleep on different beds) and she will lie down like a starfish and have sex. Financially, it is cheaper for me to just outsource than go thru a divorce especially with kids involved. When the kids are out of the house and I will be on my way too.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 15, 2017 9:42:48 GMT -5
That's why I chose to stay in my marriage because of the kids. The people who gets to hurt the most are the kids because one parent try to mindf*ck the kids. I will probably have to wait for at least for another 8.5 years until my youngest son goes to College when the kids can think rationally and make decisions for themselves.
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Post by twotimesone on Dec 8, 2017 6:46:52 GMT -5
I told him he wasn’t my type. He asked to meet me for lunch anyway, we can just be friends. I asked him if he really wanted to get stuck in the “friend zone”. He laughed and said it was ok with him. He really wasn’t my type, but at that first meeting, we sat outside at a cafe and talked for nearly three hours. We were both raised catholic and attended catholic schools. Other than that, our pasts and experiences were completely opposite. He is an immigrant. I am a Texan who transplanted to California. I was allowed to run free with the neighborhood gang, he was controlled and restricted. My parents expressed no expectations, his entire family had high expectations. His life was planned out by his family, I flew by the seat of my pants with no guidance. Somehow we ended up in the same place. I liked his careful grooming, his nice shirts, his clean car, his clean fingernails, his smile, his humor, his intelligence, his good manners. I looked forward to seeing him again. For nearly three months we would meet every couple of weeks and talk and enjoy each other’s company. Then, he kissed me. It was completely unexpected and nice. Very nice. I wanted to kiss him more. He whispered to me, “Do you remember what you asked me? Are we still in the friend zone?” I laughed and told him “No, not any more.” We continued to meet for lunch with hugs and kisses afterward and started to talk about carrying the friendship to the next level. I was happy. Then he was gone. He broke our last lunch date, telling me he needed to think about what he was doing with me. His family was most important and he wasn’t willing to risk being discovered and losing all he had. He said all the nice complimentary things, said goodbye and wished me the best. Do I believe his reason for ending the friendship?Does it really matter? It’s over. On the positive side, I had met someone special and learned things about his home country that I would never had known. I was inspired to check books out of the library to learn more. I’ll continue to read and learn. He enriched my life and I value the memories and experience of our short friendship. I miss him. You know, reminds me of an old flame and then we had became friends. I had lunch with recently a few months back and I wanted to re-ignite. Somehow I got the vibe that she wasn't interested so I didn't bother to ask her to lunch anymore. What I don't understand is that you initially told her that he wasn't your type and after he kissed you, you didn't say that anymore. I dunno, I can't figure it out what is in women's mind's. No big loss though, I have alternative plans with other women anyways.
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 6, 2017 16:05:21 GMT -5
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 14, 2017 10:04:57 GMT -5
When the kids are older they are in desperate need of "the independant stage". So in some ways they are going through the same thing we are. This way they can relate a whole lot better. It can be a very winning give and take situation. You nurture each other. Especially if one parent doesn't want them to have "independance" and want's control. While the other thinks it's a very important part of their up bringing and development. Even later years when they are off to college. In todays world the new 18=adult is more like 22 yrs old. That's a good point. For me, my motive is mostly financial. For people who are in their 50's, when they are being laid off, their chances of getting a job will be much harder. Me working in IT, that is especially true. My intention is probably go my own way own sabbatical away from my wife for a few years. If I get divorced on the process, so be it.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 8, 2017 8:36:49 GMT -5
Lost mine, didn't even bother to replace it.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 3, 2017 21:44:24 GMT -5
I really appreciate your opinion. I agree with you that my W don't care about marriage and we live more like housemates at this point. Perhaps I have pointed out the negative perspectives in the marriage. At least in the house there's not much fighting going on at this point and zipcode therapy will probably cause more drama in the house. Also, me doing zipcode therapy is implying that I do want to actually want the marriage to work. I was like that a few years back when I have arguments with my W about this and I realize that doing this is like hitting a wall. So instead of trying to make the marriage to work, I plan my exit strategy. While in this situation I just go and outsource and find intimacy outside the marriage. Another reason why I am holding off getting out now is for financial reasons. Me and my wife brought a multifamily house that brings good rental income and I am doing okay financially. Getting out now would jeopardize the plans for Early Retirement. At that point, I probably won't imagine my w would be there anyways. Many people thinks that getting a divorce would makes it look like grass is greener on the other side when the reality that it is not. I'll be middle aged and most divorced women in my age would carry baggage (IE children) and I don't want more drama in my life. So you see, in some twisted kind of way I am getting what I want. Not the ideal way, but at least I have a plan. But this article fully resonates why I am staying in the marriage. Thanks. I see. Well if you ask me this is an extremely pragmatic approach - well thought out. You point out it aint so black and white. Hope you keep us posted how living in an SM, raising kids as good partnering parents, and outsourcing and finding intimacy in the near future works out. My experience and situation is quite similar to yours - and yes I did advance and had long term outsourcing which was going along fine until I got shot right in the heart with cupids arrow and mad crazy love entered the equation. That was not a conscience decision on my part - falling madly in love never is - at least per my experience. Thanks. The person who I was outsourcing, I have to pay, she is younger and sex is good. In terms of falling in love, I probably won't imagine myself going walks along the beach and stuff because we are not alike. On the other hand I wrote another thread about me "recruiting with another woman" here. About that woman, if it had worked out, I would've probably imagine that I would fall in love because we are more alike. Then again, who knows, once I go outside the pasture, I will probably find love in all the wrong places and things will start to unravel for me.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 2, 2017 4:32:16 GMT -5
I am kind of jealous. At least both you and your W acknowledged that there is a problem with your relationship. My W thinks that everything is fine as it is. The other day I went to my wife's bed and try to cuddle with her and she was looking the other way at her phone. My Son shows up and said "Why are you on Mommy's bed?" as if it is okay for parents to sleep on different beds. Right now my kids are the pre-adolescent phase so it is probably the worst time to get out. My W loves the kids, no doubt about that, maybe a little too much. Maybe when the kids grow up to be teens and get more independent, my W have to wake up to get out of their lives. By then, maybe she will come back and be serious about our relationship. Who knows if I want to do this by then. My friend - how can you go on like this? Your W is the one who has "cheated" on you. Robbed you of basic human needs that are part of the Marriage Contract "to love and cherish" "to have and to hold" are not these basic conditions and your W has broken the contract. You actually are in the Moral High Ground here. Have you thought of "Zip Code" therapy? What about the following: 1) Give her a warning - change ASAP or I am leaving. 2) If no change then leave move out to a new place call it "Trial Separation" Be sure of course to check with divorce lawyer on ramifications (abandonment, losing strong position in divorce proceedings etc.). Baza mentioned "opportunity" meets "preparation" so there is much to prepare for (legal defense in divorce, finances, managing impact on children and your self, etc.). But "nothing changes if nothing changes". Then again you might think you are comfortable enough in your current SM situation (some call it "SM Shit hole"), but I wonder if you can honestly look in your heart and say? I do not pretend to know your answer only you do. Courage and Blessings !!! I really appreciate your opinion. I agree with you that my W don't care about marriage and we live more like housemates at this point. Perhaps I have pointed out the negative perspectives in the marriage. At least in the house there's not much fighting going on at this point and zipcode therapy will probably cause more drama in the house. Also, me doing zipcode therapy is implying that I do want to actually want the marriage to work. I was like that a few years back when I have arguments with my W about this and I realize that doing this is like hitting a wall. So instead of trying to make the marriage to work, I plan my exit strategy. While in this situation I just go and outsource and find intimacy outside the marriage. Another reason why I am holding off getting out now is for financial reasons. Me and my wife brought a multifamily house that brings good rental income and I am doing okay financially. Getting out now would jeopardize the plans for Early Retirement. At that point, I probably won't imagine my w would be there anyways. Many people thinks that getting a divorce would makes it look like grass is greener on the other side when the reality that it is not. I'll be middle aged and most divorced women in my age would carry baggage (IE children) and I don't want more drama in my life. So you see, in some twisted kind of way I am getting what I want. Not the ideal way, but at least I have a plan. But this article fully resonates why I am staying in the marriage. Thanks.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 1, 2017 9:53:27 GMT -5
Actually it was 8-9 years, I overexaggerated, since the birth of my son when my W decided to sleep with my son for the first couple of years and slept by herself later on. I told my wife not to do that but she didn't care. Afterwards, when my son got older and she slept by herself. I'm not saying that we didn't cuddled for the last 10 years, but she would cuddle with me for about 5 minutes before starfish/duty sex. The lack of intimacy is an issue. The thing that really pisses me off is the lack of alone time. I always wanted a few days or even a few hours to have someone babysit my kids so me and we can go out and have some fun time. You know, I gotten so sick and tired of begging and asking and I don't even do that anymore. I can sort of relate. My son kept sleeping in our room until he was 12 and then our daughter was born and she still sleeps in our room every night. Well not my room any more - I moved out in April and we are separated. We had major long term SM going 6 months to 18 months in between sex. Intimacy died. I started outsourcing for many many years and did not even bother with her. Now I just broke up with my girlfriend (former mistress) and I am a bit depressed because I am totally madly in love with her, but I want I think to maybe try again with my W for the sake of the children and that we both acknowledge (my W and I) that we fucked up and need serious couple repair. We were definitely madly in love in the beginning but she got pregnant really fast and then children and busy at work - you know the story. d I am kind of jealous. At least both you and your W acknowledged that there is a problem with your relationship. My W thinks that everything is fine as it is. The other day I went to my wife's bed and try to cuddle with her and she was looking the other way at her phone. My Son shows up and said "Why are you on Mommy's bed?" as if it is okay for parents to sleep on different beds. Right now my kids are the pre-adolescent phase so it is probably the worst time to get out. My W loves the kids, no doubt about that, maybe a little too much. Maybe when the kids grow up to be teens and get more independent, my W have to wake up to get out of their lives. By then, maybe she will come back and be serious about our relationship. Who knows if I want to do this by then.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 1, 2017 9:15:40 GMT -5
That was a long article, I read and appreciated every word of it. This is the last paragraph: "Men in established relationships and marriage need to remember that women are women first and foremost… and wives and mothers second. If a man stops bringing passion and effort to his relationship and stops treating her as a desired woman, he shouldn't be surprised when she feels forced to fill her needs elsewhere." Essentially I feel like I can agree with a lot of what he found. I would say that a bit of it does not fit me, personally, but that overall I can see why that would be an easy conclusion to come to. I do wish my H would put a little effort into some passion, I know I do... I regularly surprise him and find special events for us to go to that I think he will enjoy (even if it isn't my cup of tea), I give him the compliments that are backed up by me hugging and kissing him randomly, I try and find new ways to make our bedroom more appealing and satisfying... Or even try and seek him out when I cannot stop thinking about tasting him... And yet some days I just kind of feel he is complacent. Things like this make me wish my daughter was older so we could travel wherever and she could adjust better to school and environment changes. Not that our sex life was better when we were traveling, but it was more spontenious... Anyway, I have drawled on... My bad. Tldr; good share, he made some great speculations and even found he was lacking in his own relationship just as we are. Maybe in some cases but ex wanted to be mommy first and wife second. It reminds me of a wooden sign on in-law's fridge which says "Happy wife, Happy life" and my W would humorously point this out to me. I often wonder this philosophy, and how a woman can attain this "happiness" at the expense of their Husbands? I mean in my SM, I have really no say of some of the major decisions and I have to follow whatever she wants.
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