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Post by twotimesone on Sept 4, 2018 14:44:38 GMT -5
This is why many guys don't want to have kids. No offense to the married women out there. Once they have kids, the primary center of attention diverts from the husband to the kids. We used to go on vacation without the kids and we used to have a great time until my W decides one day that my priority became #10 in the home. She would not go anythere, even a vacation or even a few hours and have someone babysit the kids while we have fun. All I have become is an accessory and butler to the vacation/outings. I don't even enjoy them anymore. I am not saying the kids are not important. But sometimes mothers just can't turn off the mommy switch for a few hours and be a wives to their husbands anymore. "Sometimes" being the key word here. There are plenty of women here on this forum who are mothers and also happen to be the refused in their marriages. I do agree it can be a very hard juggling act to divide priorities between husband and children (and job, and house, and and and) but sometimes the children's needs HAVE to come first. Parenting demands selflessness at times. It doesn't sound to me like you understand that. Or at least, that you resent it. Your experience with your wife is not everyone's experience once they become parents. You say that "sometimes mothers just can't turn off the mommy switch for a few hours and be wives to their husbands anymore". What is you are doing for her to help her WANT to do that with you? Many of your posts here read to me like you are a bit of a selfish jerk in your marriage. That wouldn't exactly make me want to jump your bones either and I have a very high sex drive. Maybe your actions as a husband are worth reexamining too?? I also completely disagree with the statement that "many guys don't want to have kids". That has not been my experience AT ALL. Where did I say that the kids are not a priority? I've sacrificed enough for my kids, my wife and the marriage enough. Even my in laws know that. So I can fairly say that you don't know my situation. I'm replying to time4intimacy's post about having someone babysit the kids once a while and we go out (and not in bed.) But my W insists that every time we go out, we have to bring the kids along.
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 4, 2018 5:47:37 GMT -5
Congratulations! My advice, take it or leave it: Make sure she knows before tonight how special the experience was to you and how much you appreciate it. I hope you are spending the weekend complimenting her and doing things for her that make her feel good and wanted, doing things that she hates doing. Anything she normally has to ask you to do, do it now before being asked. And if you haven't done any of those things, it might make sense to not try again tonight yet, but to invest the time and effort into making her feel special and for her to associate your making her feel special with how she made you feel special before you make your move. Because being rejected tonight will fucking hurt and you want to make sure that you did everything right to set the mood for her to want a repeat performance. Without knowing the details of your relationship, I think waiting a day or two (or even a week!) while you make her feel special might be a very smart move if you want a real turnaround. I did treat her very well this weekend and she treated me well too. We had a good weekend, we ran a 5k together and then took the boat out in the ocean while she read and I fished until we got caught in a storm an d hand to come back in 5 foot waves. Last night we went to a local farmers market of sorts and got steaks and some veggies and cooked dinner together. Then, we started watching a new show on amazon. Everything went well, but we were both exhausted and before I knew it we feel asleep and I never did try for sex, but I am happy with the direction this weekend went. This is why many guys don't want to have kids. No offense to the married women out there. Once they have kids, the primary center of attention diverts from the husband to the kids. We used to go on vacation without the kids and we used to have a great time until my W decides one day that my priority became #10 in the home. She would not go anythere, even a vacation or even a few hours and have someone babysit the kids while we have fun. All I have become is an accessory and butler to the vacation/outings. I don't even enjoy them anymore. I am not saying the kids are not important. But sometimes mothers just can't turn off the mommy switch for a few hours and be a wives to their husbands anymore.
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 3, 2018 22:12:46 GMT -5
Nice, I wish I could get my W and I to counseling. The only kind of sex I get is starfish sex.
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 2, 2018 21:55:54 GMT -5
It has definitely helped me alot to make the hard choice of staying and read about the common struggles of other fellow members are going thru. I would like to get out of my situation but the high chance of being alone is probably worse than staying married.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 31, 2018 0:48:58 GMT -5
What did you find to be the shelf life in months between "no sex expected" to "outta here"? I hit "nothing expected" at 28 years of marriage, that was about a year ago. I stopped expecting anything after 2 years of celibacy AND being screamed at that my penis didn't even work anymore. She cut me off in 2010, and I stopped expecting anything in 2012. When she would start her criticism, I would remind her of celibacy. My youngest went to college in the fall of 2015. On Jan 18, 2016, she asked why I seemed so depressed. I told her that I was down because I had not had sex in 6 years, and it looked like I never would again. She told me that it was all my fault, and I should be happy and fulfilled in a marriage that never included sex. A week later, she agreed to make an appointment with a gyno to find out what the problem was. She agreed to make an appointment in 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, she told me she had NOT made an appointment and would if/when she felt like it. I started looking for an apartment. Three weeks later, I moved out.
I decided that since there were no kids at home and we no longer owned a house, there was no reason for me to allow myself to be treated this way. I stayed for so long because she had told me that if I divorced her, she would move my daughters away and do everything she could to make sure I never saw them again. However, I am proud of myself that once my daughters were out of the equation, I only put up with her abuse and neglect for 6 months before I had enough.
And I am very glad that I did not have to deal with custody/child support issues. It is interesting to point out that my ExW absolutely refuses to help my daughter at all with her college expenses. Oh, and she has about $85,000 in the bank. She can have it. I got out with my health and most of my sanity.
I have a similar thinking like you. If me and my W are in the house with the kids flew the coup, I would've imagined that my W would drive me nuts. Though I probably would've stayed until when the kids are finished with college because the money that you could've saved would allowed you to retire earlier. The other week I had a chat with my in laws where one of their kids got married already and left the coup and another one graduated and got a job in another state and starting to move out. I asked them of their plans for retirement and they said that they still owed money and will pay off the house in one or 2 years. Their plans is to work until 70 and hope to get social security. Meanwhile, the husband and wife sleep in different beds and don't like each other. They have no plans to downsize and they even brought an overpriced luxury car with a big monthly payment. I tell myself I definitely don't want to be like them. For me, my plan is that the day when I get out is the day when I go for early retirement to live in another country by myself. I mean that I hope that I will be relatively healthy to do the things that I wanted to do. At least I hope that I can enjoy the prime of my years doing the things I want living the life that I want.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 30, 2018 20:41:04 GMT -5
When I logged in today someone here pmed me with the title "You just chose poorly" because I chose to stay. Personally, I wasn't offended but I wonder what makes people say things like this.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 30, 2018 16:08:54 GMT -5
My mom and dad always fight about everything. We all know that they stayed in the marriage because of the kids and I was surprised that they divorced when I was in my 30's. My W came from a relatively well tight knit family and they do things together. I admired their family for that and thought that our marriage would be the same thing. Between the mind fking, SM, and she threatened divorce and blamed me for the 'bad influence' from my family. Even later my in laws told me that my W have some issues. In any case, I don't plan to stay when the kids are out of the coop.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 30, 2018 12:08:43 GMT -5
My W is willing to do it on a somewhat regular schedule, once a week or once every other week. But there is no real intimacy, no hugging, kissing, snuggling, etc. I stay, but I still outsource.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 18, 2018 3:21:29 GMT -5
“First!”Damn. Dan beat me to it. ;-) Cool to see this new section! It’s said that the secret to a long marriage is to not get divorced. Well, duh. So many dynamics feed into staying in a difficult relationship. For some, it might simply be “the devil you know”, fear of change, or just letting life default to the status quo for one more day. These might be the more dubious reasons to stay, but to each their own. For others, it’s a more conscious, calculated decision. The marriage isn’t what you hoped and dreamed it would be, and if you’re reading this it probably lacks passion and intimacy - maybe even basic affection. But in the bigger picture staying seems like the better choice. I think folks that gravitate to this section will tend to fall into this camp. Maybe (hopefully) it’s a low-conflict environment and you’re committed to keeping the nuclear family together. (Warning: Your kids learn “normal” from you, so carefully consider the example you’re setting for their future.) Maybe you have strong religious or moral beliefs that compel you to “stay together at all costs”. Or, maybe it’s the simple reality of finances, whether that’s the cost of child support and alimony, or trying to make ends meet on a single income (or half as much retirement). I think there are plenty of scenarios where staying is very hard and requires some personal sacrifices to achieve. And it really, really sucks to sacrifice feeling loved. But for some people that’s the hard option they’ll choose. It’s a very personal decision. While I’m on my soapbox, I’ll share this thought... any choice is a valid choice. “But”... you owe it to yourself to be sure it’s an informed decision. Take a hard look at the situation and evaluate the big picture - more than the missing intimacy. Don’t just consider whether you can cope a little longer - look ahead 20, 30, 40 years and think about whether you’ll regret the decision you make today. (Take it from someone who’s done “Choosing to Stay” for 3 decades, it’s a really hard path, with many points of wanting to escape at any cost.) The one thing we can’t get back are wasted years - be sure you’re spending them wisely. DC To me, I've been thinking of if things are greener on the other side of the road. Financially, it is better for me to stay. For me, I think marriage is overrated after being in this one. Getting a fwb is fine, but I really need some convincing of why relationships work anymore after getting mind-fked by my current W.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 18, 2018 0:44:20 GMT -5
You know, I complain to my W why can't let someone babysit the kids for a few hours and we go out. My W doesn't care so I forget about anniversaries too.
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Post by twotimesone on Jul 30, 2018 9:58:42 GMT -5
I play simple games on my tablet every day, but not usually more than a half hour a day and only when I'm either alone, or W is doing the same. I used to be into video games more in college but mostly as a social activity. I don't think that video games are really as big a problem as people think they are. It's more about priorities. If a guy is playing games when he could be spending time with his lady that's a problem but the same goes for any obsessive activity. Same can be said of the ladies who devote hours to Pinterest instead of their men. Any activity can be bad but most aren't inherently so. You know when there is a problem with people who are too obsessed with their phones/tablets when someone tries to talk to them, repeatedly and ignores people around them. This weekend we have had a social gathering and one parents son, didn't socialize with anybody, used a big noise cancelling earphones while looking at his phone. To me, this is a worse problem with an adult who plays video games for 3-4 hours a day. At least when I have to put the game down and I was able to socialize with other people. For people who complain that grown men and video games are bad should look at other things which attention grabbing things which adversely affects their social life.
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Post by twotimesone on Jul 28, 2018 22:15:25 GMT -5
Judging by the response of how much time that i used to spend in video games, I think that many people negatively judge towards adults who play video games. You don't hear men complain to their wives about obcessing about tv shows/soap operas. Why the negative stigma? And some people don't do any of the above. That's probably why I judge (and ultimately, I realize it just comes down to the fact that H and I are very, very different - and that's OK, it's just over between us). I don't watch TV (unless I am watching over the kids' shoulders for maybe 15 minutes a week, tops, and a movie maybe once a month. I definitely don't watch soaps (does anyone anymore??) I don't play video games. I do use my phone for text, internet, email, but I don't check FB every day and when I do, I'm only on for a few minutes at a time. I systematically unfollowed everyone because it was too much information for me to process and now I only use it minimally for school and to see occasional pics of my baby niece (she's worth it).
I will cop to being a bit of a freak/outlier when it comes to screens. They just don't hold my interest much, although I do like to post and/or read here sometimes. I think shamwow hit the nail on the head when he said that no one is really happy in these SM deals. It's a hard realization to come to that your spouse probably isn't happy either, but I think it's the truth. I'd so much rather be the innocent victim in this, but the truth is, my H doesn't want to be married to me any more than I want to be married to him. I just happen to be the one to call time of death. Sigh. Well, let me ask you a question. If you were married and your H asks you to stop being to be so chained up with your phone because your H believes that you pay more attention to your phone than your H, can you do that? Trust me, my W does that so much that pisses me off. At least when I play my games I know when I can put it down. My W probably spends more time in a typical day on her phone watching tv shows/social media than me when i used to pay video games. Also, many people, men and women play games is because it is a way of socializing each other, kind of similar to why you text and use facebook. If you W asks you to do that, will you do that? I hate using my phone, because of my job, I have to check on my emails regularly and I hate it. My manager complains about me not checking on my emails off hours. Did I miss something? What prostitutes? Out sourcing is going after prostitutes... I see some of your points, and feel I need to nudge you to reconsider others. What I agree with: - It's not particularly fair for one spouse to call the other's interests "childish"; it's just inflammatory. What if your interests were kite-flying and model rockets.... or sports and cars... or painting and basket weaving... or gardening or pet-care... are any of those "childish"? Who cares?
- If she's constantly whining to her friends, she's airing her marital laundry outside the marriage; I can't see any good coming of that. She should work it out with you.
It doesn't matter what the activity IS: it matters if it is causing friction. Furthermore the friction should be address inside the marriage. (Her friends' opinions about "how much gaming should a husband be allowed" are ENTIRELY immaterial. That is like you hanging out with some lascivious guy friends and getting them to weigh in on what your wife should be doing in the bedroom.) But where I'm not on-board with you is: - 3-4 hours a day sounds like A LOT to me if you are a) a husband, b) a father, c) a homeowner. But, that might just be my life and the way I need to use my time.
- Frankly, you seem to be whining to folks on the Internet (us) about your wife watching too many TV shows. Have you discussed this with her?
Yeah, sometimes when you talk to women who thinks she right and you're wrong, you might as well talk to a wall.
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Post by twotimesone on Jul 27, 2018 19:28:39 GMT -5
Are you joking? Assuming you have a full time job which keeps you out of the house all day until dinner time, and assuming you have kids to care for and play with before they go to bed, I would guess 3-4 hours of video games per day (and up to SIX hours on weekend days) means you are basically ignoring your wife until 11 or 12 every single night and then you complain that the way she treats YOU is the problem? Based on that, why exactly do you think she should be eager to rip your clothes off? I wouldn’t fuck you either. Until you change that, enjoy your prostitutes. I would be curious to know whether this frequency was the same at the beginning of the marriage. If so, I see your point. However, I played just as many games when married. But I only started several years after she did the bait and switch at the altar. After a few years of that, I had many such "hobbies" that would keep me out of that bed until 11 or 12 (or 2 or 3) because I didn't want to lie in the dark in depression and anger as she slept soundly next to me. My guess is he is at the point where neither of them really want to be in each other's presence. Both have their "hobbies" to deal with that unpleasant truth. The real losers in the situation are the kids who see this night after night and learn the lesson of "this is how marriage is". Hopefully they will learn the lesson of "this is not how marriage should be" and if they ever find themselves in a similar situation get the fuck out. At least that's what I hope my kids do in that situation. Just an FYI, me and my W used to do other activities and I don't play games. I used to watch alot of movies and my W still hates me for it so I played games because of that. At the time my kids were still small when I played alot. Eventually I went to maybe less than 2 hours a day until one day I thought it is a drag to play. Judging by the response of how much time that i used to spend in video games, I think that many people negatively judge towards adults who play video games. You don't hear men complain to their wives about obcessing about tv shows/soap operas. Why the negative stigma?
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Post by twotimesone on Jul 27, 2018 12:34:34 GMT -5
I think there are many factors in choosing to end or mend the marriage and there is a different case for everybody. Years ago, my W was pissed off at me and openly threaten me with divorce. I think my W is childish in making a selfish decision like this because we have young kids and I think it would be bad for them. I think my W and maybe many W in general that it is okay that once they have kids, it is okay to neglect their H. For me I chose to stay and worked out with the situation with my W. At least with the SM situation is a little better as we do it at about once every 2-3 weeks, though she is almost like a starfish when we do it. But I chose to stay to bring some stability into the household, and hopefully teach my values to my kids. I will probably leave my W and do my own thing once when the kids are out of the nest. I thought about the whole gender equality thing are hurting marriages in general as a side effect. Not because there shouldn't be gender equality, but women are taught to be independent of men really puts women in this kind of marriage is for me vs for us. I'm not saying that a woman should be dependent to their husbands, but I wish that they put some effort in working it out before ending it too soon. I'm confused as to the lesson you're trying to teach your kids. That it is better to model an example of marriage where mom and dad are roommates. That dad is forced to stay in misery because of them (no guilt there). Whether that is your intention or not, this is what you will be modeling to them. When children grow and form their own relationships the best example they have to work from is their parents. If you have a son would you want him to be brow beaten into sexual submission? Would you want your daughter to believe that withholding affection and flying off the handle threatening divorce is acceptable? Your choice to stay is absolutely valid. But "staying for the kids" is a double edged sword. It is a way to give the kids stability at best. It is a way to propogate your misery to your children at worst. Just my 2 cents If I we were to divorce, then what is the lesson are we trying to teach to our kids? A divorce is an easy way out and everybody will be happy and the grass is greener on the other side? Kids grow up with either one of parents gone because they are unable to compromise? When one of the parents take, take and take from the other and put nothing in the relationship is healthy? I would want to teach my kids that if you want to be in a married relationship to be good you have to give and receive. At least it is easier to teach my kids when both parents are in the same roof. "Sex lacking as you feel your marriage is, at starfish sex every other week, your marriage doesn't fit the technical definition of SM, which is 10 times a year or less. Most here who divorce have gone at minimum months without sex but some have gone years even decades without sex. I'd had 8 straight sexless years, 5 other sexless years and other years that met the technical definition of SM. I was married 34 years. I also am independent and thoroughly enjoy sex at least 3 times a week with my post SM partner of 5 years. As for your thoughts on independence: men and women should be able to live independently of partners because all relationships end in death or divorce." There's a difference in having sex and making love. Believe it or not, some men want more than empty sex. And every time when we do it she is holding something back. That goes to my definition to independence. I'm not talking about being able to live independently of each other. But it goes back to holding back something that you can provide to each other in the relationship.
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Post by twotimesone on Jul 27, 2018 3:53:09 GMT -5
I think there are many factors in choosing to end or mend the marriage and there is a different case for everybody. Years ago, my W was pissed off at me and openly threaten me with divorce. I think my W is childish in making a selfish decision like this because we have young kids and I think it would be bad for them. I think my W and maybe many W in general that it is okay that once they have kids, it is okay to neglect their H.
For me I chose to stay and worked out with the situation with my W. At least with the SM situation is a little better as we do it at about once every 2-3 weeks, though she is almost like a starfish when we do it. But I chose to stay to bring some stability into the household, and hopefully teach my values to my kids. I will probably leave my W and do my own thing once when the kids are out of the nest.
I thought about the whole gender equality thing are hurting marriages in general as a side effect. Not because there shouldn't be gender equality, but women are taught to be independent of men really puts women in this kind of marriage is for me vs for us. I'm not saying that a woman should be dependent to their husbands, but I wish that they put some effort in working it out before ending it too soon.
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