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Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 6, 2018 10:07:16 GMT -5
Summer wedding brought fine times But a season obscured One named “No” was birthed Unleash a new season? To have that kind of power Might seem like a dream But this season lingers long burying life and love Oh, elusive summer Why abandon us A trick it was, yes, Cruel, decisive just plain mean Allowing this imposter Taking your rightful place But hope it won’t steal I will look ahead and see Summer again and where I want to be
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Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 1, 2018 13:18:35 GMT -5
xander . If you’re not wanting any more children, get a vasectomy and remove that anxiety from the situation. Can your situation be recovered? If you BOTH want it to, then yes. From your initial post, it seems like she is at least engaged with you on talking about it. Schedule your vasectomy. Tell her that you want to remove that worry from the relationship for the both of you. And continue talking! 1- yes, Schedule the vasectomy. 2- she is likely reeling from the abortion and this will take more time. Even she may not be aware of how she was affected. 3- this SM may well reverse in YOUR case . I cannot believe I am saying this, I think she is for real and really just needs more time. Practice patience for another month or two. If it goes much longer you are crossing the point of no return and the answer to your heading is NO. 4-10 Schedule that vasectomy
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Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 1, 2018 13:03:06 GMT -5
"Framing themselves" "social disadvantage" - YES, I concur. You nailed it. The year prior, (2011) there was a week of DOING something that troubled her soul. I knew it then but observed and stopped it after the week because he was not someone I could let into our family. (If decent - I may have encouraged it). It was hardly to be believed as it was sooooo far from who my wife was or even is. It was hard not to believe I was in a crazy dream. But as Rose said on Titantic "the heart is a deep ocean of secrets".
But today it often feels just a matter of her going through the motions to not rock the boat and if not going to leave it, she'll make the best of it. But that "best" still leaves me quite alone and her unfulfilled I am sure - but she does not seem to know how to lower those walls. However, it is just more pleasant now and I am no longer affected by her attempts at control.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 1, 2018 11:47:31 GMT -5
Six years ago in a conversation she stated that she didn't feel she was worthy of love. Real father left though nearby and was all but fully disengaged and did not even remember her birthday. Her mother, judgmental, harsh and belittling - I have witnessed this. So my W has these walls that keep her isolated for the most part and with no close friends. These walls affect her relationships with our kids, neighbors and me of course as well. To avoid being hurt, she rarely opens up or allows vulnerability so therefore she has no relationships. And though she prides herself on being someone who thinks for herself, she shows no earthly ambitions, no future concerns, no adventurous spirit; so we are almost never on the same page. So I had to vote NO here. And if she did the same, that'd be no surprise and I would not even care.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Feb 1, 2018 10:02:25 GMT -5
doneandone
Your thread has taken on quite the life here. With several themes considered - (messy house, depression, just lazy and indifferent, and how much you have enabled). I am confident you know many of us here are stuck in a quandary as to the action we really should take. We know logically. But we are here because there are so many moving parts in these emotionally charged cases and there appears to be just no way out. So many of us endure but have learned how to cope better and to adjust within our circumstances as a result of advice offered - advice based on experience and sometimes we get treated with sheer genius. To that, you are consistent but that's because your circumstance is consistent. My wife has been OCD for many years. She knows I abhor the sound of a vacuum cleaner running while I am home. She vacuums for "therapy" she says. I installed a central vacuum - quiet now. BUT she had made home life less than enjoyable for 2 decades as though life were all about, clean hands, clothes, vacuumed floors (not necessarily clean), dishes, folding clothes, etc. But she is so inefficient at these things, they became her whole life.
To make this post useful, in 2014 I told her we all done with her meanness over not keeping a perfect house. That toys out of place were not a sign of disrespect just kids being kids and let's let the home be a more tranquil, enjoyable place. She capitulated. NOW however, she does let things go but not to your extent by any means. But I have taken over the role of co-managing this domestic stuff to a degree and I have become the enforcer but in my more mild and encouraging way where it is a team effort. In summary and where this may help you with your scene, I do not leave ANYTHING just to her anymore for her to fail at and then make me angry. Yes she is listless too often but admits she does not even know where to start often times with organizing, etc. She just has limited functionality that way. Even when she does, it takes her WAY too long and she lets everything else go as she cannot multi-task. I know she crosses through depression, indifference, confusion, etc. but I stopped being the pleaser for peace and I just do what needs done as though it is my house and even if she is that leach roomie sometimes. So do consider shocking her with taking charge of all of it, making things as YOU want them to be with your mind shift being "she is a relative" leaching off of you but you have to grin and bear it for a time. Pay for a cleaner to assist and put things together. Do some painting, etc. but make your house YOUR home. With that done, you have removed one of the themes in your S***hole. My advice - make it a mission - 2 weeks, Garage included. You may see her engage actually and take an interest in home-life again. You may not but you'll like the improvement.
In your your case, this social media crap and going out, I know I could not tolerate AND be sexless. That is disrespect at one of it's highest levels. Her affairs are with all these distractions. But consider that these distractions also keep her from facing reality of home. She does not even know how to start as the task seems too big. But again, do not try to fix her all at one time. Fix the house first as that is the one thing in your total control. Be drastic. Again, she may begin showing an interest by something as subtle as telling you a paint color she likes when she sees you heading out to buy paint.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 31, 2018 13:05:43 GMT -5
doneanddone - I have a difficult time believing someone who lives on their phone through social media, gossips with friends and about friends, watches reality TV on Bravo and Lifetime (I call that how to be a ho TV), drinks socially but more frequent, smokes cigs at a rate of almost a pack and half a day......I have a hard time thinking this person has clinical depression or is even depressed with their life vs. just being straight up lazy....
I could see how she could be upset with her life choices and how she is living her life today....that could be a contributing factor to her what I perceive as laziness but depression.....nope not buying it.
I take back my comments - she's lazy.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 31, 2018 12:54:13 GMT -5
“Yes, she is lazy but I do agree that she IS DEPRESSED. And you cannot help her because when no sex, we are jaded and not the best support” Being sexless doesn’t mean one has an excuse to not help a spouse with a serious medical condition. Would bring the refused be an excuse for you to not assist a spouse with breast cancer, a heart attack or a stroke?’ I’d been years without sex yet still got my husband to the hospital and assisted when he had s life threatening blood clot. If you really view being in a sexless marriage as a reason to not help an ill spouse, divorce her. You don’t have love nor basic compassion for her as a person. Your marriage is over. I do not know if his wife is depressed but it is something for him to do whatever is necessary to get her assessed. Regardless of whether she’s lazy or depressed, her behavior also affects their kids. He has to step it up and do more than his share in order to assure their welfare including if they divorce. Not to be misunderstood. I can see how that wording looks. Oh I am very caring. But I think his wife checked out of the marriage a long while back. He can offer help with depression, but many wives have a real tough time admitting it is real and don't want (us) the spouse they resent to be their "fixer". But any of us here would certainly - that's why we are here - would go to any length to help. But an outsider can also be a huge help here whether a sister or friend.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 31, 2018 11:32:28 GMT -5
7 YEARS!!!!! whether she is lazy or not, Every infraction is amplified 10,000 times when there is no sex. Cat litter is my bane also! Cat died last Christmas - very sad BUT I told her if another it is outside cat or nothing. That litter box and cat got more attention than I ever did - I think I was jealous of the affection the cat received. LOL Yes, she is lazy but I do agree that she IS DEPRESSED. And you cannot help her because when no sex, we are jaded and not the best support. The more she feels the resentment, the worse she gets. Take pictures, develop them and lay them out on the table. Then just say "you need help" and I do no deserve to live like this.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 25, 2018 10:59:30 GMT -5
...an intact family for the kids ...financial security now and for retirement ...a partner to help raise the children (someone to share the role of taxi-driver, mentor, disciplinarian, chef, and baby-sitter) ...the appearance of stability in the community (social standing) ...someone to take out the garbage, unclog the drains, and change the oil in the car ...a familiar set of problems for which I’ve developed a decent range of coping skills (divorce would eliminate the familiar problems and bring new ones and research in psychology shows that we’d all rather keep our familiar problems than take on new ones) When I type it out it looks like a lot. I’m in the mood to be grateful today. So today, it’s enough. Life could be so much worse. I have a warm home, beautiful healthy children, and a husband who loves our kids and helps me take care of them. (But yes, I long for so much more.) Yes, but what does marriage bring to the table? As a separated man, for example, I have the same financial security that I had before (in a tenuous marriage), a co-parent who is a good mother who loves our beautiful healthy children and helps me take care of them. I have social standing in my community, as does she. I have someone who helps with household chores that she is better at or shows more enthusiasm for when it's her time with the kids, and we each have dispensed with the problems that arise from relentless and ongoing disappointment in each other. So, all or most of the things you've mentioned can exist apart from a marriage. What's marriage bringing to the table? Apocypha - well stated. I foresee a similar scenario where there could be significant improvements. Most importantly - I think she would show "more enthusiasm for when it's her time with the kids" and stop hibernating in the bathroom or bedroom watching TV. That would be huge to see her be forced to engage in life to a larger degree.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 25, 2018 10:02:40 GMT -5
Apocrypha To participate in sex or I'd be outsourcing. I keep discreet. When it all comes to light, I guess I'm going to say, "You were told," so I don't feel guilty. surfergirl, You have so much going for you! But I fully empathize with you here feeling like you'll explode if....but we all tire of reset sex eventually. Please consider that the "you were told" won't work well in reality in this event. Our avoiders cannot seem to understand or choose not to understand our reality therefore do not see the pressure they put on us and the harm that it is doing; so they will not or cannot comprehend the extreme measures we might take to fix something they don't see as needing fully fixed. Now that said, my wife has alluded to a "her granting permission to me upon her approval". She sees the safety of the marriage worth protecting even if I am being satisfied elsewhere. I I fueled the conversation along this path but did not pursue it. Your H just is not there today though. For me, an AP would not be known to her - as no matter what, it would come back to haunt. So in this case, honesty is not the best policy - in my opinion. We also have 5 kids....
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 25, 2018 9:49:03 GMT -5
lonelywifey, The answer should be so obvious that it should never have to be asked. But those of us here do understand differently.
I appreciate it as this is one of those "face reality questions", the type that many will not ask; for fear of the answer and potential disillusionment. And once disillusioned - then what? My answer would have changed across the years due to just maturing but as of today:
1- a base for the kids - even the ones out of the house (yea I started early). The youngest at home are 9 & 12. 2- an example to other family and friends because I am confident that if I divorce, there would be others within the family and our circle that would say if Chris & _____ divorced, then I think I can too. This is not to sound vain but that others look to us as examples in various ways. Side note: Our daughter, she suggested we split. The kids do see through the charade - eventually. 3- supporting two households, and another guy eventually in the scene affecting my boys 4- As long as she is not being nasty, I almost feel sorry for her - almost to the point if she found another guy, I'd support HER leaving if that'd make her content. 5- Maintaining status quo is often times an easier decision but not necessarily logical.
BUT WOW, WOULD I LOVE TO HAVE A WOMEN WHO LOOKED FORWARD TO SEX, INTELLIGENT AND SILLY/FUN CONVERSATION AND LIKES TO TRAVEL; IF EVEN JUST SHORT GETAWAYS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR! This I crave but she loves the safety of home so I go it alone....
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 23, 2018 17:18:47 GMT -5
Thanks nytrader , I am interested to read what you say because I feel that my wife and I *could* continue our relationship on that basis (ie caring for kids, no sex). I wouldn't mind doing that, and I wouldn't mind if we agreed that neither would outsource (if that's what she wanted), because I place a very high value on our family unit, which is on the whole very functional. It would be interesting to hear from others who had got this approach to work. Why do you have to give up your sexuality (staying but not outsourcing "if that's what she wanted") Why does she get to decide that for you? Not having sex is doable but not healthy. I was in a SM for 23 years. I got a divorce and lived separate for 2 years. I missed him and the family unit despite getting a lot of sex. I am now back with my ex but I outsource. He doesn't know, it's none of his business. We are affectionate and best friends but not sexual with each other. There is no cookie cutter solution. Do what is best for you and what you want for yourself. Well stated bballgirl, there is no cookie cutter solution. James, just weave your way through the emotional labyrinth as nobly as you can. For everyone else here it is a good lesson in be prepared before you get too honest. If I were asked to leave the BR, I already am prepared to politely say "no, you can take the spare bedroom or I will have a second bed delivered in 2 days, But *&^% if I am going to pay additional penalties after all this heartbreak." James at least got the ball rolling and the myriad of emotions have yet to envelop this circumstance. But as reality of divorce gets closer, she may well try harder but ultimately, it takes some strong mental muscle and maturity on both parents to make it work very long. That is why I am a big proponent of duplex or attached town-homes. But you have to plan this and let the judge know this is the best option.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 23, 2018 15:16:18 GMT -5
I want to amend my previous answer. I think the word I’m looking for is WANTED. uhhh yea, you should have unlimited likes for that one. It seems so simple yet so elusive to our spouses. It is all quite perplexing ....
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Advise
Jan 23, 2018 15:01:27 GMT -5
h likes this
Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 23, 2018 15:01:27 GMT -5
In New York State, if a couple has been married for ten or more years a marriage is considered long term. In cases of the dissolution of long term marriages, several combined factors may result in an entitlement of spousal support, or alimony. source:https://nydivorcefirm.com/nyc-child-support/alimony-lawyer/
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Advise
Jan 23, 2018 14:57:52 GMT -5
Post by cagedadventurer on Jan 23, 2018 14:57:52 GMT -5
lostintime Dude. I was waiting for you to get voted off the island here for complaining about 2-3 times a week. I'm surprised nobody shot you. LOL Just goes to show what a really great bunch of people are here on this forum. (That, or they skimmed over that part....) We don’t shoot anybody here, and everyone’s definition if “not enough” is different. And that’s okay. The emotional roller coaster is the same though. And I agree with you, this is a really great bunch of people. And I don’t think we missed the part about 2-3x weekly. Quantity is not the same as quality, and a marriage really needs both (unless both parties agree to something less). The problem occurs when one or the other does not care enough to find a place where both can be happy, instead choosing the selfish path of only their own happiness. Unfortunately, that statement applies to both sides of the argument. Yea, I may have stated a while back, my wife acquiescences but it's more than just having more. Quality is limited, it's just "meh" as ironhamster describes it. So I am becoming less and less interested - it is a bizarre change but my care factor is waning. So 2-3 x per week would be like 100 x if she initiated and made it an objective.
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