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Post by week5of35years on Nov 22, 2023 7:00:21 GMT -5
Hi mirrororchidThanks for the questions, they help me continue to asses my situation and not be seduced by the hope everything will be ok... my answers in line: Thanks for the very through rundown. What would constitute "reset stuff"? What is the minimum you'd require ? (You need not specify for fear she meet only that much.) You had set Jan 1 as a deadline to move into another bedroom. Now it's Feb 28th and "done and we are ended" I found your choice of consequence/ultimatum peculiar. Some refusers would love the idea of separate bedrooms and sexlessness both before and after would suit them fine. It does not appear to be an outcome Mrs. Week5 has embraced, so...moot point, but bullet dodged. Are you prepared to actually move out of teh bedroom January 1st? Not following up on such threats is referred to as "shredding your cred[ibility]" Tis best to only say what you mean. Have you hashed out your prospects with a lawyer? That may bear on just how high a bar you set and how far away. Some ladies like the take charge approach you seem to have adopted. Does she play long out of curiosity, interest, arousal, or fear? Congrats on the reset (or more). Not everyone gets even this far. What inspired you to share the emotional rupture article and what was the reaction? You expressed great frustration from the 5 star three week excursions resulting in no romantic escape sex. Do they amuse her only so long as they are going on? What's her mood after it's over. Any improvement from before the trip? Or the same? Worse? She doesn't work. Why not? Volunteer work? How doe she fill the day? I think you said the housework is not particularly spit-polish and white glove. Any medications she's on? 1. "What would constitute "reset stuff"? - Reset stuff is my W engaging me in more intimacy and sex but not meaning it to be a permanent change in behaviour at all... i.e. satisfy my "outburst and protestations" and then gradually slide back down the slope of entropy to the original no sex, little intimacy behaviour from before... 2. "What is the minimum you'd require ?" - I said my minimum is sex 2 times a week plus other stuff that need not be penetrative @the Talk, to be fair she said that was not unreasonable, as an aside we have been engaging in lots more intimacy and I am finding that 2 days is basically what I can go without any intimacy of any kind and 3 without orgasm, this sis shorter than before The Talk, but I guess my expectations have moved after we actually started having more... if it gets to that point i find myself awake all night wondering WTF is going on and negative thoughts cycling round my head all night 3. "You had set Jan 1 as a deadline to move into another bedroom." I set end of Jan as the deadline in the @the Talk on the 13th Nov (Page 1) 4. "Now it's Feb 28th and "done and we are ended" " - yes so this for me is because she actually experience pain while we are trying to have actual sex.... we have tried 3 times and its happened each time so far and we are trying different positions etc. to stop it hurting, last tried to have penetrative sex Mar 26th 2022 and I know that hurt so we stopped, and last time before that was Mar 28th 2020, so specifically because of this I have cut some slack by 1mth because if it ends up a trip to the docs/gyno (which we have discussed already if it persists) that could lead to a need to more time... what I am pleased about is that she has tried, and initiated the move from play to sex herself and has done so 3 times in the last 12 days. 5. "I found your choice of consequence/ultimatum peculiar. Some refusers would love the idea of separate bedrooms and sexlessness both before and after would suit them fine. It does not appear to be an outcome Mrs. Week5 has embraced, so...moot point, but bullet dodged." the consequences were laid out on the 13th Nov as we become house mates.... perhaps you are right in that I need to outline what that life looks like in more detail... no intimacy, not even a peck on the cheek, separate finances, 50/50 split, house work 50/50 split, no joint holidays, no going out for nice dinner, no pretending to be a couple at any events we attend jointly for our son, shared time together would be a coincidence only........... 6. "Are you prepared to actually move out of the bedroom January 1st?" March 1st 2024.... yes I am 7. "Have you hashed out your prospects with a lawyer? That may bear on just how high a bar you set and how far away." no, my priority will be my son and his welfare, I live in the UK, divorce is pretty structured and for example, the law has an expectation that a woman will work for a living once a child is past primary age no excuses or expectation to sit around on alimony... honestly, eventual divorce may not be a choice for me, if she does not change it is a given, no choice, so the divorce consequences may have to be faced... 8. "Some ladies like the take charge approach you seem to have adopted. Does she play long out of curiosity, interest, arousal, or fear?" - she has not complained yet, she has read 50 shades in the past (and asked me to push an electronic version onto her kindle 2 weeks ago) and I know for sure she got horny at least one time she read something in that..... this, I read can be a indicator that she may appreciate a more dominant husband, so I am trying that, and also I like the way that this approach simply allows me tell her what I want and what I am going to do to her without rejection anxiety. She said in her response to sending her the "6 things women want from sex article" that dominance was ok but no rough stuff... surprised me TBH. She has been aroused for sure and also I think curious.... I was especially impressed by an article that said men in a SM should care less about what the W thinks because after all, either way, our sex life could not get worse than before... (ref: Stop Caring So Much about what your wife thinks ) as far as I can tell she is enjoying herself and we have been clear about her safe word which is easier and quicker to use than "no + explanation" 9."What inspired you to share the emotional rupture article and what was the reaction?" - she kept saying she could not remember incidents in our past that I was flagging and playing back.... honestly I did not believe her at all and thought she was just dodging the guilt and the need to apologise and she had said she felt I was attacking her, I needed to reframe because I wanted to talk some things through with her and at that point she has said "there was no point in discussing these points anymore because she could not remember them, or how she felt"... so I found that article and sent it to her because my view was and is that I NEEDED to replay and express what I felt at those points because I was hurt, I was not going to be closed down, but if I wanted her to think about those times honestly, I had to frame the reason I was doing it was not just to beat her up and explain what I expected from her as a minimum for me to get closure.. She was ok with that and has listened to me and it has helped me and allowed her tp talk to me about one "rupture" she had, although that was about me paying for a electronic gate at a property we owned with out checking with her at the time.... which I felt was odd, but ok, I asked right? 10. "You expressed great frustration from the 5 star three week excursions resulting in no romantic escape sex." I never thought about her behaviour or mood before/during/after I would say exactly the same from my recollections although she invariably had a tan after... 11. She now works part time (started 15hrs in Feb) my view has always been it is her choice and we adapt. how did she spend her day when not working.... well back in our last house it went like this... Take son to school Walk dog with a couple of girlfriends Either (come home, or go to the gym for a swim, or go for brunch with said friends, or go shopping) Home have a cup of tea Put on dish washer Have some lunch Watch some soap opera (2-3 times a week) Put on some washing/or hoover a room, or clean a bit of a room Pick up our son Watch some TV Take out some frozen food or prep to cook (nothing that takes longer than 20mins Period!) Fill dishwasher] Watch TV Bed by 10 repeat..... and where we are now, less friends so far, and the gym she is in is not also a posh spa so she spends less time there because it is not as nice as previously.... I have always been 2nd, maybe 3rd or 4th when vs, the soaps and sex I have often commented is not at the bottom of her list, it does not even make an appearance TBH.... no medication, but up until menopause her hormones may as well have been meds.... 3 weeks of walking on hot bricks and 1 week of normalcy every month for years TBH... All being said I am pleased to report we are in a reset and I hope sincerely it becomes a permanent change.... here is my log ![]() ....  ![]() Thanks |
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Post by csl on Nov 22, 2023 8:32:12 GMT -5
In 2005, Wife and I started attending a local Methodist church, and even though I had been a Christian for nearly 40 years, I learned a new idea about approaching my faith: Intentionality. All too often, Christians and husbands will say to themselves, "Let's do what comes natural," forgetting that whatever we want, we intentionally work towards. A "Let's see what shakes out" mindset isn't working towards getting better. With that in mind, let me suggest that you read a blog post of mine that discusses a tool for working towards intentionality in a sex life without being pushy. Wife and I used it back in 2011 and it helped to revitalize ..... ahem. Here is the link to my article, and it includes a link to a podcast by the couple that created the method: curmudgeonlylibrarian.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/refused-a-new-tool-to-help-part-2/Thanks CSL, just to be 100% open, I do not feel comfortable framing my journey through a religious lens...but thanks for thinking of me! Help me out... How is using a calendar to help a husband and wife schedule intimacy "religious"? I can't find this strategy in the edicts, bulls and writings of the Church Fathers. |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 22, 2023 9:18:24 GMT -5
Thanks CSL, just to be 100% open, I do not feel comfortable framing my journey through a religious lens...but thanks for thinking of me! Help me out... How is using a calendar to help a husband and wife schedule intimacy "religious"? I can't find this strategy in the edicts, bulls and writings of the Church Fathers. Hi csl, no intent to offend, I did not say a calendar was religious, I said I did not want to frame my journey through a religious lens... I felt the article you referenced was doing exactly that for the cases it mentioned, the article says things like "remember the priorities: God, spouse, kids, church, world", and "In Proverbs, it says" and "pain that must make God weep" and "the time when they can get away and sin" - all these things frame the discussion through a lens of religion, I am not against it.... it is not for me.... thanks |
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 22, 2023 23:25:05 GMT -5
Hi mirrororchid Thanks for the questions, they help me continue to asses my situation and not be seduced by the hope everything will be ok... my answers in line: 1. "What would constitute "reset stuff"? - Reset stuff is my W engaging me in more intimacy and sex but not meaning it to be a permanent change in behaviour at all... i.e. satisfy my "outburst and protestations" and then gradually slide back down the slope of entropy to the original no sex, little intimacy behaviour from before... 2. "What is the minimum you'd require ?" - I said my minimum is sex 2 times a week plus other stuff that need not be penetrative @the Talk, to be fair she said that was not unreasonable, as an aside we have been engaging in lots more intimacy and I am finding that 2 days is basically what I can go without any intimacy of any kind and 3 without orgasm, this sis shorter than before The Talk, but I guess my expectations have moved after we actually started having more... if it gets to that point i find myself awake all night wondering WTF is going on and negative thoughts cycling round my head all night 3. "You had set Jan 1 as a deadline to move into another bedroom." I set end of Jan as the deadline in the @the Talk on the 13th Nov (Page 1) 4. "Now it's Feb 28th and "done and we are ended" " - yes so this for me is because she actually experience pain while we are trying to have actual sex.... we have tried 3 times and its happened each time so far and we are trying different positions etc. to stop it hurting, last tried to have penetrative sex Mar 26th 2022 and I know that hurt so we stopped, and last time before that was Mar 28th 2020, so specifically because of this I have cut some slack by 1mth because if it ends up a trip to the docs/gyno (which we have discussed already if it persists) that could lead to a need to more time... what I am pleased about is that she has tried, and initiated the move from play to sex herself and has done so 3 times in the last 12 days. 5. "I found your choice of consequence/ultimatum peculiar. Some refusers would love the idea of separate bedrooms and sexlessness both before and after would suit them fine. It does not appear to be an outcome Mrs. Week5 has embraced, so...moot point, but bullet dodged." the consequences were laid out on the 13th Nov as we become house mates.... perhaps you are right in that I need to outline what that life looks like in more detail... no intimacy, not even a peck on the cheek, separate finances, 50/50 split, house work 50/50 split, no joint holidays, no going out for nice dinner, no pretending to be a couple at any events we attend jointly for our son, shared time together would be a coincidence only........... 6. "Are you prepared to actually move out of the bedroom January 1st?" March 1st 2024.... yes I am 7. "Have you hashed out your prospects with a lawyer? That may bear on just how high a bar you set and how far away." no, my priority will be my son and his welfare, I live in the UK, divorce is pretty structured and for example, the law has an expectation that a woman will work for a living once a child is past primary age no excuses or expectation to sit around on alimony... honestly, eventual divorce may not be a choice for me, if she does not change it is a given, no choice, so the divorce consequences may have to be faced... 8. "Some ladies like the take charge approach you seem to have adopted. Does she play long out of curiosity, interest, arousal, or fear?" - she has not complained yet, she has read 50 shades in the past (and asked me to push an electronic version onto her kindle 2 weeks ago) and I know for sure she got horny at least one time she read something in that..... this, I read can be a indicator that she may appreciate a more dominant husband, so I am trying that, and also I like the way that this approach simply allows me tell her what I want and what I am going to do to her without rejection anxiety. She said in her response to sending her the "6 things women want from sex article" that dominance was ok but no rough stuff... surprised me TBH. She has been aroused for sure and also I think curious.... I was especially impressed by an article that said men in a SM should care less about what the W thinks because after all, either way, our sex life could not get worse than before... (ref: Stop Caring So Much about what your wife thinks ) as far as I can tell she is enjoying herself and we have been clear about her safe word which is easier and quicker to use than "no + explanation" 9."What inspired you to share the emotional rupture article and what was the reaction?" - she kept saying she could not remember incidents in our past that I was flagging and playing back.... honestly I did not believe her at all and thought she was just dodging the guilt and the need to apologise and she had said she felt I was attacking her, I needed to reframe because I wanted to talk some things through with her and at that point she has said "there was no point in discussing these points anymore because she could not remember them, or how she felt"... so I found that article and sent it to her because my view was and is that I NEEDED to replay and express what I felt at those points because I was hurt, I was not going to be closed down, but if I wanted her to think about those times honestly, I had to frame the reason I was doing it was not just to beat her up and explain what I expected from her as a minimum for me to get closure.. She was ok with that and has listened to me and it has helped me and allowed her tp talk to me about one "rupture" she had, although that was about me paying for a electronic gate at a property we owned with out checking with her at the time.... which I felt was odd, but ok, I asked right? 10. "You expressed great frustration from the 5 star three week excursions resulting in no romantic escape sex." I never thought about her behaviour or mood before/during/after I would say exactly the same from my recollections although she invariably had a tan after... 11. She now works part time (started 15hrs in Feb) my view has always been it is her choice and we adapt. how did she spend her day when not working.... well back in our last house it went like this... Take son to school Walk dog with a couple of girlfriends Either (come home, or go to the gym for a swim, or go for brunch with said friends, or go shopping) Home have a cup of tea Put on dish washer Have some lunch Watch some soap opera (2-3 times a week) Put on some washing/or hoover a room, or clean a bit of a room Pick up our son Watch some TV Take out some frozen food or prep to cook (nothing that takes longer than 20mins Period!) Fill dishwasher] Watch TV Bed by 10 repeat..... and where we are now, less friends so far, and the gym she is in is not also a posh spa so she spends less time there because it is not as nice as previously.... I have always been 2nd, maybe 3rd or 4th when vs, the soaps and sex I have often commented is not at the bottom of her list, it does not even make an appearance TBH.... no medication, but up until menopause her hormones may as well have been meds.... 3 weeks of walking on hot bricks and 1 week of normalcy every month for years TBH... All being said I am pleased to report we are in a reset and I hope sincerely it becomes a permanent change.... here is my log ![]() .... View Attachment![]() Thanks In your Welcome entry, you said you'd been sexless for 22 years. The arbitrary definition seems to be ten times a year and your new floor is twice a week? And she said it was reasonable. I hope you stick around a while to see if your turnaround can have such a high bar. My own reset manages every three weeks. (~17 times per year) On the plus side, she initiates 80+% of the time. Your log is eye popping. That from a sexless marriage? If the change held you'd be the undeniable ILIASM high water mark. (at least with the men, the women's turnarounds may be zestier, I'm not sure.) Your clarification of being done is helpful. If she understood the meaning of the ultimatum, then her turnaround makes more sense. The outcome is pretty drastic. It sounds as though the UK makes it less urgent to prep for divorce. She may find the prospects of full time employment so burdensome that engaging you romantically seems a small price to pay, maybe even one she grows to be glad to pay. In America I'd warn you she may be putting ducks in a row to divorce you first. You have a better shot at a proper reset. By your description of five star getaways, in America, she'd see a massive payday ahead. It sounds like the UK would give her a far lower standard of living than she currently has. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting. The 50 Shades detail was very helpful. I don't recall who but some kind soul scorned 50 Shades of Gray and hipped me to Secretary. Perhaps it could make for a stimulating movie night. Do you remember any behavioral change that followed the gate purchase? Probably not, but asking anyway. Was looking for signs of depression. May or may not be there. DO you enjoy teh five star nature of the getaways? Does the expense bother you? Is the tip top quality of the getaway important for you? Is it important to her? Maybe this stuff matters less with the reset underway. Then again, seeing if there's any difference before during and after a getaway could be instructive. |
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Post by isthisit on Nov 23, 2023 17:39:44 GMT -5
Mate, I am afraid to say you’re being played and then some. For a very long time your Mrs has communicated to you verbally and also via her behaviours that she does not have any sexual interest in you. And you want her to passionately want sex with you. If I was being polite I would say those two positions are in tension. If I wasn’t being polite I would tell you directly that the lady just doesn’t want you inside her.
You describe a luxe lifestyle for your wife I imagine she would like to hold on to. Along with the companionship, stability and social benefits of being Mrs Week5. I am afraid to say that my instinct is that she is throwing you some crumbs to try to appease you on a something is better than nothing basis.
Unfortunately, you cannot negotiate with your wife to want you, you cannot incentivise her to want you either, coerce, threaten or rationalise with her towards a frenzied rush towards your trouser department. There are folks here who have achieved some degree of action through these approaches and if that is enough for them, it’s all good. But, is that the same as authentic passion for you? When I want a man I certainly do not defer or need a few months hiatus to build up to it, to get used to the idea. I am pulling on the suzzies and feeling him up.
I am sorry if that stings, it isn’t meant to, but it is intended to help you seek clarity and manage your expectations. I hope you achieve a turnaround of some level of activity if that makes you happy. But, what it will not be is an authentic and genuine passion for intimacy with you. If that was the case she would have instigated activity of her own accord and without the talk.
I know this because I have trodden the same path and much of what you say resonates with my journey. I told myself all kinds of rubbish about my marriage because it was a more palatable version of my reality. What you are doing is exhausting every avenue to reclaim your marriage and I did this too, ad nauseam. This was time well spent for me as when I dropped the bomb I was sure, I knew I had left no stone unturned and this was very helpful. I never regretted my choice and had no regrets. I hope it works out for you whichever direction you choose to take.
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 27, 2023 9:24:45 GMT -5
Hi mirrororchid & isthisit, thanks for your comments... I was away back end of last week for work and did not get a chance to reply. I got back Friday night and we had sex, we were both passionate and she was very wet but she said it hurt after about 10-15mins but we had made love in a couple of positions which was nice and she did enjoy it. I did not orgasm she did, massively, and we stopped after she had said it hurt, I felt rejected as I did not want to wank off or be wanked off, so I rolled over and went to sleep ... Sat morning I kind of blew my stack a bit about feeling frustrated about that and I highlighted my fear that this is just a "reset" and that the pain during sex could be an excuse... "the thing" that becomes the reason we can't go on before default back to old normal, I also highlighted that she didn't seem to be allocating any brain cycles and time to thinking about our sex life and probably spent more time watching soaps, and actually this was probably the most important thing going on in our lives right now and she needed to get with it...... I was a bit of a jerk TBH and quite accusatory .... I went off and did some Airsoft with our son and when I came back we sat down and talked and again I think made progress about mainly communication... she said she had been spending time thinking about the painful sex and that her plan was x, y, z, which I did not know about, she said she had been looking at sexy lingerie on line and basically she just felt that there had not been enough time to make as much progress as I wanted to. I felt it would have been good for her to say these things to me before, rather than after me blowing up because I am feeling frustrated and paranoid, as I was still wating for her to update me on what the plan was going to be if end of Jan did not work for her from 2 weeks before.... I highlighted that it has been 10 weeks since we first sat down and plenty of time had passed, she apologised and said yes that was true, but highlighted that other than sex twice a week she was a bit unsure WHAT I wanted to do and how she should approach me, she felt a bit overwhelmed and things were so different now with the amount of intimacy we were having, her head was a bit all over the place and she knew she had to allocate the time to think and do, but she needed me to communicate a lot better... I took that one on the chin and we she said that we should have ground rules like we already had for cuddling every night.. I agreed, as we have already decided that we would cuddle up each night regardless of what happened intimacy wise (and no hot passion Tue/Wed night because of early work commits the next day) because it is a good connect and avoids the fear of the "pushed away hand" (my fear of rejection). We agreed we would simply outline what we wanted and what was ok each night, from "just a back rub and sleep" all the way to "give me your hand I am wet right now" - and give us both a chance to say yes or no but to realise that if it was no, it was not "no never" but just "not tonight" I also explained about my 3 sets of needs... mental, physical, release (orgasm) and explained my own libido cycle to her, so she would understand better that sometimes I do not want to orgasm even if we play together, and sometimes I do, and literally you could plot it on a calendar as X number of days after I last came meaning I would be up and ready for massage/playing/sex/swinging off the chandeliers...... and I tried to explain how what I felt or got anxious about escalates with each day between having an orgasm like climbing a ladder, higher and high and only orgasm and cumming resets that... We agreed we do not have a list of what each other would want to try or what turns each other on and we needed to have that so that there were no surprises if I said one night, I want to shag you xyz style and I had never mentioned it before and so was asking permission for the type of sex as well as checking it was ok to actually have sex..... I have to send her a list and she will do the same of positions/situations/kinks etc... on the "ok to do" list. Anyhow we agreed that we would not try anything Sat night to give a bit of space from our row and we had great sex on Sunday morning, what I would call full enjoyable romping round the bed for the first time since early Oct when this all started, it did not hurt her and we had good fun... as far as things she likes, I never knew she liked having her boobs and nipples "nipped" and "bitten" she guided me and it practically blew her off the bed.... I told her this morning I am feeling super horny already, and it would be great if we can fuck tonight (learning my lessons, no more "baby" talk when it comes to our sex life). She thanked me for letting her know and she said that after Friday and Sunday she felt very satisfied and it would probably be a few days before she felt like she would be really horny and wet and she was not sure what I fancied... I said we could try me from behind doing anal, and she said ok, but she wasn't sure how deep I could go, and we would see about that tonight .... she was not not sure what she fancied if anything for herself but we would focus on me and if she was horny afterwards I could finish her off or watch her do it herself if I liked.. Up until a few weeks ago we had never heard the word "anal" even voiced out loud in our house but I am certain that in the past when I have shagged her bum, it must have been the case that we have inadvertently had anal.. but I want it to be on purpose so we will see .... On the comments you have kindly left for me which I really appreciate.... mirrororchid wrote: I am surprised also by the current activity levels, but bear in mind there is a lot of cuddling and mutual masturbation in there and only a few attempts at penetrative sex....when I planned my speech, I was only thinking about what I want.... I wanted to convert some infrequent intimacy and me wanking 3/4 times a week into an actual varied and regular sex life. I am sure my expectations will settle down as I have already found it very challenging to orgasm 3 or 4 times a week after we have had 30 or 40mins of foreplay and various activities... it arouses me deeply but if we spend too long I find an orgasm for me takes so long, its frankly like beating a drum and not very satisfying regardless of who is doing the wanking... She may not want divorce and that could be driving her behaviour currently, but it seems so intense I hope there is not a sudden cut-off waiting around the corner for me TBH I think in the UK, divorce can be more amicable, but you never know until you try, the law is certainly quite even handed from what I can find out so far.... 50 shades, she has said "no rough stuff" in our notes back and forth, I asked her what she meant by rough as I did think the way I was pulling on her hair and biting her breasts and nipples was really rough, but she said she loved it and we needed to just explain to each other.... which we both have homework to do.. With the gate and stuff no - no change...that I remember TBH or with holidays before/after that I recall as I have historically done all the planning and organising, it is basically a relaxing time for her.. On holidays She just likes the sun and beach... I don't, but I do not mind the expense, there is no downside to staying at 5* hotels, but when I relax, chill and my libido starts to build up and I am surrounded by women in bikini's and stuff and nothing ever, ever happens, it just feels like torture and why would I want to repeat that every 6mths?? I think the getaway is important to her, to relax and forget about home stresses, but not to get relaxed and get our groove on.... we have different outcomes I think. The way this is going at the moment I may see if I can test the theory and plan a properly dirty weekend away in the early new year, I've not done that since probably 2006/7, and really let her know what I will be doing for her, to her, and what she will be doing for me and to me on the trip.... no baby talk anymore... isthisit, thanks for being the voice of one possible reality for me. you seem to have certainly been there and done that and escaped out the other side! Maybe you are 100% correct, I hope not, and I hope I can get the turnaround I am looking for and that there is authenticity about it, and we are not booking calendars to shag at 8.15pm every other Friday night... At the moment she seems keen to play and when she is wet we have intercourse so far missionary and cowgirl... I hope the pain is from under utilisation and will just get better... we will see... I am doing exactly what you say (and I think it is the human condition) that I am "exhausting every avenue to reclaim your marriage" and if it comes to it, I, like you, want to be, and will be sure our intimate life is dead, if and when I pull the plug, but not before I have explored if it is save-able.... One thing I would say, she said she will wear a teddy tonight and have a look at our sex toys (overall unused and bought by me) and choose some that she would like me to use if she gets horny after I have come, I am sceptical about the last part as she has not shown an interest in toys at all over time..we will see......... One day at a time....... Onwards |
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Post by h on Nov 28, 2023 6:01:37 GMT -5
I would take the pain during intercourse seriously and insist that she go to a doctor about it. If she's not willing to go to the doctor and find a solution to the issue, she doesn't want a solution, she wants a reason to avoid sex.
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 28, 2023 6:19:41 GMT -5
Update,
last night went ok....
she did wear the lingerie, she said she did check out our sex toys but did not fancy any, she did play with herself after I had cum, and I watched, ....
we had great foreplay but did not have anal and frankly she lay on her front and starfished in a position where it was never going to be happening....
I shagged her bum but it felt regressive and I was deeply unsatisfied so went downstairs, she came down after a while and we sat up, discussed a few things and I feel we have been set back...
Its funny, sometimes what is said in unguarded moments or as offhand comments without long thinking time seem authentic and honest and, that when you pull that thread it makes things feel like they unravelling....
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 28, 2023 6:57:22 GMT -5
...she said it hurt after about 10-15mins but we had made love in a couple of positions which was nice and she did enjoy it. I did not orgasm she did, massively, and we stopped after she had said it hurt, I felt rejected as I did not want to wank off or be wanked off, so I rolled over and went to sleep ... Sat morning I kind of blew my stack a bit about feeling frustrated about that and I highlighted my fear that this is just a "reset" and that the pain during sex could be an excuse... "the thing" that becomes the reason we can't go on before default back to old normal, I also highlighted that she didn't seem to be allocating any brain cycles and time to thinking about our sex life and probably spent more time watching soaps, and actually this was probably the most important thing going on in our lives right now and she needed to get with it...... I was a bit of a jerk TBH and quite accusatory .... I went off and did some Airsoft with our son and when I came back we sat down and talked and again I think made progress about mainly communication... she said she had been spending time thinking about the painful sex and that her plan was x, y, z, which I did not know about, she said she had been looking at sexy lingerie on line and basically she just felt that there had not been enough time to make as much progress as I wanted to. I felt it would have been good for her to say these things to me before, rather than after me blowing up because I am feeling frustrated and paranoid, as I was still waiting for her to update me on what the plan was going to be if end of Jan did not work for her from 2 weeks before.... I highlighted that it has been 10 weeks since we first sat down and plenty of time had passed, she apologised and said yes that was true, but highlighted that other than sex twice a week she was a bit unsure WHAT I wanted to do and how she should approach me, she felt a bit overwhelmed and things were so different now with the amount of intimacy we were having, her head was a bit all over the place and she knew she had to allocate the time to think and do, but she needed me to communicate a lot better... I took that one on the chin and we she said that we should have ground rules like we already had for cuddling every night.. ... I also explained about my 3 sets of needs... mental, physical, release (orgasm) and explained my own libido cycle to her, so she would understand better that sometimes I do not want to orgasm even if we play together, and sometimes I do, and literally you could plot it on a calendar as X number of days after I last came meaning I would be up and ready for massage/playing/sex/swinging off the chandeliers...... and I tried to explain how what I felt or got anxious about escalates with each day between having an orgasm like climbing a ladder, higher and high and only orgasm and cumming resets that... We agreed we do not have a list of what each other would want to try or what turns each other on and we needed to have that so that there were no surprises if I said one night, I want to shag you xyz style and I had never mentioned it before and so was asking permission for the type of sex as well as checking it was ok to actually have sex..... I have to send her a list and she will do the same of positions/situations/kinks etc... on the "ok to do" list. Anyhow we agreed that we would not try anything Sat night to give a bit of space from our row and we had great sex on Sunday morning, what I would call full enjoyable romping round the bed for the first time since early Oct when this all started, it did not hurt her and we had good fun... as far as things she likes, I never knew she liked having her boobs and nipples "nipped" and "bitten" she guided me and it practically blew her off the bed.... I told her this morning I am feeling super horny already, and it would be great if we can fuck tonight (learning my lessons, no more "baby" talk when it comes to our sex life). .... she was not not sure what she fancied if anything for herself but we would focus on me and if she was horny afterwards I could finish her off or watch her do it herself if I liked.. Up until a few weeks ago we had never heard the word "anal" even voiced out loud in our house but I am certain that in the past when I have shagged her bum, it must have been the case that we have inadvertently had anal.. but I want it to be on purpose so we will see .... ...50 shades, she has said "no rough stuff" in our notes back and forth, I asked her what she meant by rough as I did think the way I was pulling on her hair and biting her breasts and nipples was really rough, but she said she loved it and we needed to just explain to each other.... which we both have homework to do.. I'm not as pessimistic as IsThisIt, I don't think. She may be looking at your situation through her own lens. Unless her man's heart is wanton with passion, she'll take a pass. A woman choosing to take pains to arouse herself so she can engage a level of intimacy you want is more acceptable to you and me (men in general?). We appreciate the pragmatic effort and expect this of women as we have been informed that women need effort in general to be sexual in long term relationships. It can also take a longer time as your wife has explained. She'll need at least 2 days recharge before she has a shot at being ravenous. This is widespread lore among men. Heck, escorts/prostitutes will offer, among their service, "The girlfriend Experience". This is where they will feign caring ahbout your life and needs as if they were your loving partner. They are paid to pretend altruism. If guys will pay to be bamboozled, how much easier to accept that a wife sometimes pretends more enthusiasm than she feels? How appealing to not dissect how much is heartfelt, and how much just because she knows her husband wants it and it is as much a part of teh gift of intimacy and sexual touch? In contrast, women are told men have hair triggers. An accidental flash of too much cleavage has them thinking of ravishing them. When they have to persuade a man to bed them? The universe is off kilter. It may produce thoroughly unpleasant feelings of inferiority or a view that their man is defective in some way. (surely unusual, we can safely say) Just as your wife may be weighing the cost benefit of charging up her own libido, you may give half a thought of easing yours back. Would divorce and loss of companionship and history together be worth 20-50-100-400% more sex? And would that amount last with wife #2? (or a string of girlfriends) The marriage may benefit from both of you changing a little in the bedroom. While she may not have lied about twice a week, maybe she had expectations of herself she won't be able to make herself reach. This is an enabling, timid approach that you may choose to eschew. While my reset is a rarity, some SM husbands may find my middle ground unacceptable, or unnecessarily niggardly. Concerning the pain your wife is getting, let me point out my approach is a more deferential hesitant one and your assertive approach is bearing greater fruit than mine, so caveat emptor. I hope you can keep the thoughts of pain=rejection in check. This could produce a level of coercion she could consider cruel, beyond the level of assertive masculinity that seems to be igniting her intimate side. Perhaps you can incorporate a caring guidance towards alleviating the symptoms. This may serve you well shortly as you are delving into backdoor action. Anal sex, I've heard, is a challenge. It is commonly painful and reducing friction as much as possible has been reported as helpful. I have only my studies to tell me this. Never had it, not my thing either. The wife has never asked. Don't expect her to. I have every expectation you never "accidentally" had anal. You'd know and so would she. Studying her discomfort (which may be arousing for her) and reducing it could be transferred to vaginal discomfort. The two types of pain control could be applicable to each other. I have also heard that resumption of sex gets better with time. I'll be curious to hear of your experience. In terms of your wife getting her own wish list together, there are checklists of activities that provide options of Yes, No, and Maybe. My impressions suggest she may thoroughly enjoy exploring the options, given your mutual discovery of pain=pleasure in the thoracic area for her. She may enjoy exploring this list. www.selfservetoys.com/blogs/sextalk/our-favorite-yes-no-maybe-lists-available-online/I've not yet used any of them to pick out any that are better than others. A recommendation would be helpful to the group, I suspect, even if it is for a partner other than our spouse. I get the idea of shagging the bum thing seeming like a step backward. Perhaps avoid that ritual. The hazard here may be that her enthusiasm is sabotaged by excessive frequency? She mentions it takes a few days to get up a head of steam? Mrs. Mirrororchid takes three weeks to initiate. Your wife is much faster, but the result may be similar. Dimmed enthusiasm if it's been too soon. This can be a slippery slope to frustration and, like I said, your assertive approach may work better in your case. Kudos for the work she's doing trying to solve problems and engage you more. That is a fairly unusual level of engagement by a refusing wife. Kudos to you for the admission of ineffective communication and your effort to improve it. I'm watching your capacity to integrate communication tactics with your maintenance of your assertive approach to getting what you want. Communication is usually associated with compromise. Your change of approach appears to have changed little of your goals. The separation of the two is instructive to me. Explaining the dynamics of male libido may be immensely helpful to some women where I tend to think of it as common knowledge. It may well not be and it is a disservice for women not to be aware of it. I'm unsure Mrs. MirrorOrchid is aware of the buzzing restless burn that is excessive libido. I may need to find teh right time to share what goes on when intervals grow too lengthy. |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 28, 2023 7:18:49 GMT -5
Hi mirrororchid said: don't suppose you have any links? I think this is a good non threatening/non binary way to explore a number of areas maybe... thanks MirrorOrchid |
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 28, 2023 7:35:52 GMT -5
Hi mirrororchid said: don't suppose you have any links? I think this is a good non threatening/non binary way to explore a number of areas maybe... Apologies. I have to save my writing and edit it to finish lately. I need to switch computers, this one crashes so frequently I can lose a lot of work if I don't do it this way. Ofetn I'll walk away in frustration if I lose a lot of my writing and lose my train of thought. But when a correspondent drops in while I'm writing it? Oops. This happens. You get a partial. I need to swap out a hard drive in the laptop for a solid state so Windows 11 doesn't drag like it does now. If you go back up to my entry now, you'll find I offered a link to a page offering several sexual smorgasbord checklist options. I hope you'll look at several and tell us which look good and which you try (if any) |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 28, 2023 7:37:34 GMT -5
I found links 3 lists of yes/no maybe questionsFirst one - William Lynch, Will Sex Coach Yes, No, Maybe Checklist: I like this list is is beyond comprehensive, I would take some of these off the list but you just never know... From Mirrorchids list I liked the;- Sex Geek list - this has the option of adding "Yes Will" as well as "yes" i.e I am not going to ask for this but hot to try if you want me to.... vs. yes I am hot for this, also like the categorisation for Never Tried before and a Favourite. I also like the idea of assessing language, if my W finds some words offensive that may be a turnoff right there..... good to know.... I think I will put a hybrid together and try that... lets see |
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 28, 2023 8:21:49 GMT -5
Update, last night went ok.... she did wear the lingerie, she said she did check out our sex toys but did not fancy any, she did play with herself after I had cum, and I watched, .... we had great foreplay but did not have anal and frankly she lay on her front and starfished in a position where it was never going to be happening.... I shagged her bum but it felt regressive and I was deeply unsatisfied so went downstairs, she came down after a while and we sat up, discussed a few things and I feel we have been set back... Its funny, sometimes what is said in unguarded moments or as offhand comments without long thinking time seem authentic and honest and, that when you pull that thread it makes things feel like they unravelling.... I am a little on the slow side so help me out. You did not have anal, but you shagged her bum. That sounds like anal sex to me unless there was no penetration and you just stroked in her cheeks. |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 28, 2023 8:29:22 GMT -5
Update, last night went ok.... she did wear the lingerie, she said she did check out our sex toys but did not fancy any, she did play with herself after I had cum, and I watched, .... we had great foreplay but did not have anal and frankly she lay on her front and starfished in a position where it was never going to be happening.... I shagged her bum but it felt regressive and I was deeply unsatisfied so went downstairs, she came down after a while and we sat up, discussed a few things and I feel we have been set back... Its funny, sometimes what is said in unguarded moments or as offhand comments without long thinking time seem authentic and honest and, that when you pull that thread it makes things feel like they unravelling.... I am a little on the slow side so help me out. You did not have anal, but you shagged her bum. That sounds like anal sex to me unless there was no penetration and you just stroked in her cheeks. yes she rolled onto her side and I just stoked cheeks, closest sensation to actual sex I have found, but still not good for the future me..... that is what I had termed "shagging her bum" i.e. lots of rubbing, not anal... it is a regression and it caused some heated discussions last night... |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Nov 28, 2023 8:39:52 GMT -5
I am a little on the slow side so help me out. You did not have anal, but you shagged her bum. That sounds like anal sex to me unless there was no penetration and you just stroked in her cheeks. yes she rolled onto her side and I just stoked cheeks, closest sensation to actual sex I have found, but still not good for the future me..... that is what I had termed "shagging her bum" i.e. lots of rubbing, not anal... it is a regression and it caused some heated discussions last night... This sounds like a recipe for frustration. My wife has told me that she's only open to limited touching including massage, but nothing beyond that. I have not initiated since she told me that, knowing it will likely result in me going downstairs to take care of myself and just being more depressed. Dry humping with no penetration possible sounds even more frustrating. |
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