miestas
Junior Member
Posts: 74 
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by miestas on Nov 16, 2023 13:47:28 GMT -5
As to the photos, I can certainly understand your anxiety. On one hand, you would just be finding out about it now, so it is an “immediate slap in your face” thing for you. You are going to be understandably upset. On the other, it happened 25 years ago, and your wife will be thinking, “Geez, it was 25 years ago, dude. Get over it already!” Be prepared for that kind of response. It is a reasonable response from her point of view.
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 17, 2023 7:27:00 GMT -5
I have to go with MirrorOrchid on this and I will assume that everything she says is actually a lie right now and motivated by whatever avoidance/issues she is dealing with and that only her actions that I can witness myself are actually the truth…. (sigh) Citation? This doesn't sound like me. "Lie" is a special word. It is deception with knowledge that the truth is otherwise. Apologies for the interjection, but it makes me sound more cynical than I am about refuser motivations and machinations. The part about self-deception in your essay rings true. Refusers kid themselves ad that is where actions provide empirical truth. So much more to comment on, but still catching up. I'd like to do you justice. |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 17, 2023 8:23:03 GMT -5
I have to go with MirrorOrchid on this and I will assume that everything she says is actually a lie right now and motivated by whatever avoidance/issues she is dealing with and that only her actions that I can witness myself are actually the truth…. (sigh) Citation? This doesn't sound like me. "Lie" is a special word. It is deception with knowledge that the truth is otherwise. Apologies for the interjection, but it makes me sound more cynical than I am about refuser motivations and machinations. The part about self-deception in your essay rings true. Refusers kid themselves ad that is where actions provide empirical truth. So much more to comment on, but still catching up. I'd like to do you justice. Hi MirrorOrchid, apologies I think I paraphrased you... here is what was said as below on the "Welcome" thread: "I can understand the mind eff you're going through now. Cynicism can serve as a shiel d. Don't believe a word she says, but you can act as though you do and hold out enough sincerity to be able to receive earnest compromise if she manages to offer it. A "Reset" is the typical result from the pledges of refusers. Perhaps you wish to clarify to yourself what "rock bottom" minimum you will accept. Will be more careful... thanks for calling that out |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 17, 2023 8:26:45 GMT -5
As to the photos, I can certainly understand your anxiety. On one hand, you would just be finding out about it now, so it is an “immediate slap in your face” thing for you. You are going to be understandably upset. On the other, it happened 25 years ago, and your wife will be thinking, “Geez, it was 25 years ago, dude. Get over it already!” Be prepared for that kind of response. It is a reasonable response from her point of view. so.... we did the photo's last night and there was nothing bad in there... it kicked off a discussion about the relationship she had had with that guy back then, and I have closed that off now from my PoV and opened the door for her to address me with any thing about my behaviour in the past... one tick on quite a big list... She actually didn't post this to the "Geeeeez......" category (i like that label BTW Miestas ;-)) so I was pleased about that |
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Post by toughtiger on Nov 17, 2023 9:24:37 GMT -5
Quite the full background shared here.
I think you were very nice about the Talk.
As was said before we cannot expect them to wake up and see the things we as the sex starved partner see them,instead we need clear boundaries and conclusions i have seen so many play along for a bit hoping to fade back into more of the same..... it is CHANGE we seek not a temporary pretend it is all OK
looking back does no good we see things differently ...... i see many things i am not sure if real or colored by the often red hot hate i feel towards spouse.
the first 18 months is same for most relationships fun/ experimenting etc but fades a bit we are all told it is the Honeymoon phase ..... and to adapt.
So no one suspects when a non sexual person uses that as cover for as little as possible for rest of the marriage. from reading here many men ended up with this type women who just pretend until they feel they no longer need to or the get a child or two they wanted.....
I really think at a certain age as i am close to your age we may not want to dismantle our financial lives and start over... but i am not ready to settle for a celibate lifestyle either... waiting and expecting her to change is not realistic if not divorcing become roommates and find outsource
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 17, 2023 10:05:52 GMT -5
Quite the full background shared here. I think you were very nice about the Talk. As was said before we cannot expect them to wake up and see the things we as the sex starved partner see them,instead we need clear boundaries and conclusions i have seen so many play along for a bit hoping to fade back into more of the same..... it is CHANGE we seek not a temporary pretend it is all OK looking back does no good we see things differently ...... i see many things i am not sure if real or colored by the often red hot hate i feel towards spouse. the first 18 months is same for most relationships fun/ experimenting etc but fades a bit we are all told it is the Honeymoon phase ..... and to adapt. So no one suspects when a non sexual person uses that as cover for as little as possible for rest of the marriage. from reading here many men ended up with this type women who just pretend until they feel they no longer need to or the get a child or two they wanted..... I really think at a certain age as i am close to your age we may not want to dismantle our financial lives and start over... but i am not ready to settle for a celibate lifestyle either... waiting and expecting her to change is not realistic if not divorcing become roommates and find outsource Thanks for that, but the look on her face told me she did not think I was being nice at all!- I think I used to be more bothered about the finance stuff a while ago (that is what deep down I think she is bothered about TBH) but really am not now, I don't really care if we both end up with half the lifestyle we thought we were going to get as we approach retirement because *maybe* I'll end up in a happy loving sexual relationship.... I was and still am super concerned not to deal my son the same divorce shit sandwich that damaged me and risk him just being a copy/repeat of a life driven by hang-ups and inhibitions. I read a piece that was a view of a kind of extended Lazlo hierarchy thing.... and it said that until you are satisfied in one part of your life the next part cannot/will not happen.... I really related that to how I have not been good at maintaining friendships outside because the "externalising" comes after you are happy with your internal relationship... sorry I may have botched that, but it really made sense to me as I know the amount of mental & physical time and energy I have expounded on thinking about a great sex life and engineering environments where that might happen etc. etc. On looking back, I got hurt we never addressed it back then and I was seeking that she at least Acknowledged that it had happened I liked sent her this article:- www.drpsychmom.com/empathic-ruptures-when-you-cant-forgive-your-partner-for-not-being-there-for-you/I keep reminding myself that if we end up as "house mates" for a while that is not so bad.... and tons better than a reality where, as I look forward, I will be dead and never have had sex in the shower or a hot tub on holiday... I said that to her as well..... |
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miestas
Junior Member
Posts: 74
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by miestas on Nov 17, 2023 15:30:49 GMT -5
First, I think you will find that living as housemates can be extremely stressful if that arrangement is because two people can’t or won’t sleep in the same bed. So be careful with that. Plenty of time to see how that goes if necessary.
Secondly, whether you have talked to him or not, your son already knows that his parents are having major problems. Kids are incredibly sensitive to their parents’ moods, and that cat has been out if the bag for your son since about 3 days after you two started having problems. He may not know why, but he sure knows you are, guaranteed. Speaking as a child from divorce, I can tell you that the actual divorce is like ripping off a bandaid and soon over. Living with parents who are having problems and having to pretend everything is fine is a hell all of its own. Staying together because of the kids is frequently not a good solution. Especially if both parents are committed to raising them, whether they are living in the same house or not. It probably would be easier to be a good parent if you aren’t dealing with the tension of living with the STBX in the same house.
Just saying.
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 20, 2023 4:52:34 GMT -5
Thanks All, we had good physical intimacy over the weekend and we tried to have sex but she said it hurt, she waited until she had had an orgasm and then tried again - she had climbed on top which is the first time in 12 years..... both of us have muscle memory, but weaker muscles now, but they seem to be improving LOL, I have the mind locked into the sex we were having in 1997, and a body locked into the real world 25 yrs later.... she was really trying I think and she was disappointed about the penetrative sex as far as I could tell and we did other stuff... I am hopeful that is is not just a "reset" but only time will tell. She said that she needed to be more relaxed and I said ok but if that didn't work then a trip to the docs/gyno was the order of the day... It honestly never occurred to me that a woman might not want sex at all, but still go for the honeymoon period of the relationship and effectively come across as sex mad for 18mths before the cold iron portcullis slams shut.... thanks toughtiger for that call out, I never thought about it TBH She has still not played back her view of what and when, but she did come back to me on her view of the "6 things Women Want in bed..." article here www.drpsychmom.com/6-things-that-women-want-in-bed/, and that has led to less of me checking in with her that what I am doing is ok and just seeing if she goes with it or not.... she likes her hair being pulled after her neck is gently scratched... but did not like the pinch I did to her bum... ouch, at all, who would have suspected...... But, on "what" and "when", back to my original ask I will be pressing for that tonight.... I feel positive and hope I am not just deluding myself and my cock is about to be put on the block ready for that portcullis to snap and slam shut!!  Onwards...... |
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Post by toughtiger on Nov 20, 2023 9:42:14 GMT -5
Thanks All, we had good physical intimacy over the weekend and we tried to have sex but she said it hurt, she waited until she had had an orgasm and then tried again - she had climbed on top which is the first time in 12 years..... both of us have muscle memory, but weaker muscles now, but they seem to be improving LOL, I have the mind locked into the sex we were having in 1997, and a body locked into the real world 25 yrs later.... she was really trying I think and she was disappointed about the penetrative sex as far as I could tell and we did other stuff... I am hopeful that is is not just a "reset" but only time will tell. She said that she needed to be more relaxed and I said ok but if that didn't work then a trip to the docs/gyno was the order of the day... It honestly never occurred to me that a woman might not want sex at all, but still go for the honeymoon period of the relationship and effectively come across as sex mad for 18mths before the cold iron portcullis slams shut.... thanks toughtiger for that call out, I never thought about it TBH She has still not played back her view of what and when, but she did come back to me on her view of the "6 things Women Want in bed..." article here www.drpsychmom.com/6-things-that-women-want-in-bed/, and that has led to less of me checking in with her that what I am doing is ok and just seeing if she goes with it or not.... she likes her hair being pulled after her neck is gently scratched... but did not like the pinch I did to her bum... ouch, at all, who would have suspected...... But, on "what" and "when", back to my original ask I will be pressing for that tonight.... I feel positive and hope I am not just deluding myself and my cock is about to be put on the block ready for that portcullis to snap and slam shut!! Onwards...... I sincerely hope she woke up .......and really wants to try but what you said in a previous post made me think this might be to appease the situation Quote: " I think I used to be more bothered about the finance stuff a while ago (that is what deep down I think she is bothered about TBH)"
when she knows you are serious about this may be a deal breaker she may be trying to appease you as she is not ready for half a lifestyle. |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 20, 2023 11:07:56 GMT -5
Shit I hope she is not just appeasing like you say ToughTiger
I just have historic vibes... in classic man style, when she used to ask if I was ok, I used to say, yes, fine, turns out she knew I was frustrated but never said anything/did anything.... so somehow you kind of get the feeling that my happiness is def second to holidays, nice gifts, jewellery, nights out, meals out, clothes etc etc. need I go on.....
So we will see from actual behaviour..... and I let her off for the historic stuff, as I never said "I am not fine we don't fuck enough..." it was all subtext.... so lets see now... I am clear on what I wantt, not just saying it but actually planning for it, she either wants to join me which would be fab, because I love her, or she breaks my heart, but is done....
today........one of my offices is in a bit in the garage, I have been whatsapping her all day telling her she looks nice and other more provocative stuff, which she responded positively to... and I asked her to come out here and said "you look hot, I want you, put a skirt or dress on, suspenders, no knickers, if you dare, and come out to me, use the garage door, close it from the inside, I cleared the way, I'll meet you in the front bit of my office, I want to squeeze you and kiss you, I want you really badly …." - she came out, but not dressed as I had asked and we snogged a bit but no more....
I am just going to keep asking and being a bit more dominant, and if it turns out its all reset stuff then early next year (Feb 28th to be exact as she asked for more time) I am done and we are ended...
onward.....
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Post by toughtiger on Nov 20, 2023 20:13:50 GMT -5
week5of35years It sounds more positive and like you said you were up front and said it out right what you want and it is not a game of " oh i did not know you meant this or that" I can only hope you have solved this i was just concerned when i read the quote that some women will do a lot to not have to start over and be single.
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Post by mirrororchid on Nov 20, 2023 20:30:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the very through rundown.
What would constitute "reset stuff"?
What is the minimum you'd require ? (You need not specify for fear she meet only that much.)
You had set Jan 1 as a deadline to move into another bedroom.
Now it's Feb 28th and "done and we are ended"
I found your choice of consequence/ultimatum peculiar. Some refusers would love the idea of separate bedrooms and sexlessness both before and after would suit them fine. It does not appear to be an outcome Mrs. Week5 has embraced, so...moot point, but bullet dodged.
Are you prepared to actually move out of teh bedroom January 1st? Not following up on such threats is referred to as "shredding your cred[ibility]"
Tis best to only say what you mean.
Have you hashed out your prospects with a lawyer? That may bear on just how high a bar you set and how far away.
Some ladies like the take charge approach you seem to have adopted.
Does she play long out of curiosity, interest, arousal, or fear?
Congrats on the reset (or more). Not everyone gets even this far.
What inspired you to share the emotional rupture article and what was the reaction?
You expressed great frustration from the 5 star three week excursions resulting in no romantic escape sex.
Do they amuse her only so long as they are going on? What's her mood after it's over. Any improvement from before the trip? Or the same? Worse?
She doesn't work. Why not? Volunteer work? How doe she fill the day? I think you said the housework is not particularly spit-polish and white glove.
Any medications she's on?
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Post by csl on Nov 21, 2023 8:27:11 GMT -5
Shit I hope she is not just appeasing like you say ToughTiger I just have historic vibes... in classic man style, when she used to ask if I was ok, I used to say, yes, fine, turns out she knew I was frustrated but never said anything/did anything.... so somehow you kind of get the feeling that my happiness is def second to holidays, nice gifts, jewellery, nights out, meals out, clothes etc etc. need I go on..... So we will see from actual behaviour..... and I let her off for the historic stuff, as I never said "I am not fine we don't fuck enough..." it was all subtext.... so lets see now... I am clear on what I wantt, not just saying it but actually planning for it, she either wants to join me which would be fab, because I love her, or she breaks my heart, but is done.... today........one of my offices is in a bit in the garage, I have been whatsapping her all day telling her she looks nice and other more provocative stuff, which she responded positively to... and I asked her to come out here and said "you look hot, I want you, put a skirt or dress on, suspenders, no knickers, if you dare, and come out to me, use the garage door, close it from the inside, I cleared the way, I'll meet you in the front bit of my office, I want to squeeze you and kiss you, I want you really badly …." - she came out, but not dressed as I had asked and we snogged a bit but no more.... I am just going to keep asking and being a bit more dominant, and if it turns out its all reset stuff then early next year (Feb 28th to be exact as she asked for more time) I am done and we are ended... onward..... In 2005, Wife and I started attending a local Methodist church, and even though I had been a Christian for nearly 40 years, I learned a new idea about approaching my faith: Intentionality. All too often, Christians and husbands will say to themselves, "Let's do what comes natural," forgetting that whatever we want, we intentionally work towards. A "Let's see what shakes out" mindset isn't working towards getting better. With that in mind, let me suggest that you read a blog post of mine that discusses a tool for working towards intentionality in a sex life without being pushy. Wife and I used it back in 2011 and it helped to revitalize ..... ahem. Here is the link to my article, and it includes a link to a podcast by the couple that created the method: curmudgeonlylibrarian.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/refused-a-new-tool-to-help-part-2/ |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 22, 2023 4:56:09 GMT -5
Shit I hope she is not just appeasing like you say ToughTiger I just have historic vibes... in classic man style, when she used to ask if I was ok, I used to say, yes, fine, turns out she knew I was frustrated but never said anything/did anything.... so somehow you kind of get the feeling that my happiness is def second to holidays, nice gifts, jewellery, nights out, meals out, clothes etc etc. need I go on..... So we will see from actual behaviour..... and I let her off for the historic stuff, as I never said "I am not fine we don't fuck enough..." it was all subtext.... so lets see now... I am clear on what I wantt, not just saying it but actually planning for it, she either wants to join me which would be fab, because I love her, or she breaks my heart, but is done.... today........one of my offices is in a bit in the garage, I have been whatsapping her all day telling her she looks nice and other more provocative stuff, which she responded positively to... and I asked her to come out here and said "you look hot, I want you, put a skirt or dress on, suspenders, no knickers, if you dare, and come out to me, use the garage door, close it from the inside, I cleared the way, I'll meet you in the front bit of my office, I want to squeeze you and kiss you, I want you really badly …." - she came out, but not dressed as I had asked and we snogged a bit but no more.... I am just going to keep asking and being a bit more dominant, and if it turns out its all reset stuff then early next year (Feb 28th to be exact as she asked for more time) I am done and we are ended... onward..... In 2005, Wife and I started attending a local Methodist church, and even though I had been a Christian for nearly 40 years, I learned a new idea about approaching my faith: Intentionality. All too often, Christians and husbands will say to themselves, "Let's do what comes natural," forgetting that whatever we want, we intentionally work towards. A "Let's see what shakes out" mindset isn't working towards getting better. With that in mind, let me suggest that you read a blog post of mine that discusses a tool for working towards intentionality in a sex life without being pushy. Wife and I used it back in 2011 and it helped to revitalize ..... ahem. Here is the link to my article, and it includes a link to a podcast by the couple that created the method: curmudgeonlylibrarian.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/refused-a-new-tool-to-help-part-2/Thanks CSL, just to be 100% open, I do not feel comfortable framing my journey through a religious lens...but thanks for thinking of me! |
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Post by week5of35years on Nov 22, 2023 5:59:41 GMT -5
Thanks toughtiger, week5of35years It sounds more positive and like you said you were up front and said it out right what you want and it is not a game of " oh i did not know you meant this or that" I can only hope you have solved this i was just concerned when i read the quote that some women will do a lot to not have to start over and be single. I guess I am just super surprised from what you said and also reading around that if someone is not interested in sex and never really had been (even to the point of being asexual) that they can still be swept of their feet by the honeymoon emotion/hormones phase and this risks completely miss setting expectations with the sex life before/after. My W told me she had never been interested in a sex life at all when we last a a talk in 2016, and when I replayed that at The Talk, she said she could not remember saying that, but did not deny that what I replayed was true.... I did not believe what she said about never being interested because we did have that mad first 18mths of passion.... and finding out more has really opened my eyes to some possibilities and realities. Yes, she may not be keen to be starting over, one of my concerns (anxiety really) is that every positive thing I am witnessing now is just to avoid a break up and has no basis in desire or interest in actually fixing anything and so is unlikely to last... but we will see. Onward... |
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