Life after death:part 5.

At first I thought you’d blown it by sending a pix of you with your dance instructor, but then I remembered that before we had our first date, my now post SM lover of 9.5 years came to see me in a play and had a date with him. Then, after our first date, about a month later (I was really busy learning lines so didn’t have time to go out on more dates then), he came to see me in another play and had a different woman date with him. . Yes, I was intrigued, and it also was clear to me that he had other possibilities. Later, after we became a pair, I learned that the woman he brought to the my first play wasn’t someone whom he was seriously interested in. In fact, she had been chasing him. The woman he brought to my second play was an old friend, but he brought her so I didn’t think he was desperate.

I fully agree with you about declining to meet someone on the job. That’s just not the time! I have no clue why Rhonda, a store manager, would have suggested that.

Your sending pictures and a copy of your drivers license was wise and reassuring. I’d have also suggested sending some other info about yourself such as your interests, hobbies, marital status. After all, even if you think you know what Rhonda told Debbi about you, it still would be good for Debbi to hear those things from you.

I think it would have been wise to have moved to a telephone call after getting a response from Debbi, since she seems to be interested. From the call, you could have learned more about her including whether her voice sounds appealing and whether she can hold a conversation.

I also think it would have been wise to at least have met for coffee or to have Zoomed with her before inviting her to what sounds like a very fancy, expensive holiday party. Rhonda’s idea of an “attractive woman” may not be yours. I also think that inviting a stranger to a New Years Eve bash could be interpreted as your not having any other options for dates. I remember that 10 years ago, during my brief time trying on-line dating, a guy contacted me and immediately invited me to Thanksgiving dinner. I declined because not only did I have several offers to enjoy Thanksgiving with friends, I also didn’t want to spend a holiday with someone I didn’t know and who may not have had other options.

FWIW, some 45 years ago, I’d actually accepted that kind of Thanksgiving invitation from a guy I’d connected with on a dating site. I'd never met him in person, just had talked to him once or twice relatively briefly on the phone. I had just started grad school in a state 3,000 miles from where I had gone to college and had grown up so I didn’t have other prospects for Thanksgiving dinner. Now, looking back, it seems weird to me that he, who lived and worked in the area, didn’t have anyone to take. We were the guests of his friends, and he came empty handed. They teased him about it, and I was mortified. He lacked basic manners. He also incessantly talked about himself. It was a LOOOOOONG dinner, and I wasn’t interested in having a second date.

I can't help it that my instructor is a really good looking woman! We all take pictures together! We're dressed the same, it's a full body shot, recent, and we make each other look good! (what can i say! LOL!) Most of the women I dance with are attractive! Younger , my age and older, we have a different mix of people in our 'dance community'. Including married couples, divorced, widowed, out of college, never married, dating, and then those who are happy being my age(and older) and not interested in dating but love to dance,and socialize!
I dance with every woman in the room, wherever I go!! It's nice to be in 'high demand'. 

Why meet her in the store? I've been in that store, it's pretty dead! A big chain store with very few customers. I guess the skeleton crew staff has time on their hands!

She will be in 'high demand' too! We usually have 5 to 6 more men at a dance than women!
That's something I'll have to deal with if I walk into the party/studio with a 'date'!
If my potential 'date' looks up our dance studio on facebook she will see many photo's of me posing with other women. Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas parties, etc...and now New Years!

I thought about sending Debbie my summary from Match.com. Then decided I'd rather match text for text in the beginning. Keeping it light, and see if she's even 'available/the least bit interested' in having time for dating.
Texts can be mis-interpreted. I've also been told, on dating sites that people want to skip that part and meet face to face.

As far as 'not having other options and looking desperate? I really don't give that much thought or concern. Why? Going on two seasons now I'm used too many women who show up at dance studios 6 to 7 nights a week and aren't the least concerned with 'dating' anyone. More interested in who can lead the dance the best, who knows the same steps they know, being with their female and married friends and continuing their busy social life!

I'd rather it be known that I'm a 'one at a time' dater. Not afraid of a commitment, and want quality over quantity. Have time for friends, families,and activities, but if you're going to have a one on one intimate relationship with the opposit sex, please...make a good amount of time for that person, now and in the future!

Dancing isn't really a very good time to be "one on one" and get to know someone, the same for a new years party. It's after the dance, and or, another time and day when you set up a 'date' for one on one time.  Meeting on the dance floor and sitting out a dance or two does give you the opportunity to be introduced, or introduce yourself to new'potential dates'-- or someone who you can practice dancing with and teach each other some more steps!

I agree with you, I would expect to mainly dance with her, and have dinner with her. But that's not the way things work when dancing at a studio, compared to taking a date to a restaurant/bar with a dance floor.

I would not have chosen this as a first "lets get to know each other, keep it light", date. Debbie has not told me her schedule, she's told me very little about herself, and Debbie invited herself/asked me if she could come along!! ( a yellow flag?)

I've been told that " it's encouraged that everyone gets to dance, so no one feels left out. This goes for the married couples as well, that it's okay to dance with others, not just the few that are 'on your level'. We where all beginners at some point."

(many of the women  ask me to dance with them, and I say" I only know the basics. "They then show me a few steps and I'm right there with them by the time the song is over! I greatly appreciate these times!)
 
[Example: 10 couples and 5 single women show up for a dance lesson. Every person pays $10.00 for the lesson. The instructor puts the men on one side of the room, with the ladies on the other side facing the men.
The instructor shows the men's part, then the ladies part. Everyone now needs to dance with a partner.
What happens to the 5 single ladies? The men are asked to change partners and dance with the other ladies, making sure everyone gets to practice with a partner.]


There are two dances (at every dance party) called mixers. (a Foxtrot and a Waltz, 4 songs with each mixer)
All the women are asked to stand in a line. The men line up and dance around the room in a big circle ( an open dance) with each woman.
The man drops the woman off at the end of the line and moves up to the front of the line and continues dancing.
Everyone gets to dance with each other. ( the good dancers and the bad dancers. The beginners and the experienced).
Those who break the line, and/or ask someone who's sitting at a table for a dance are definitely noticed! Word gets around quickly.

Those people are reprimanded and will be asked to follow the rules or not return.

There are times when 4 dances will come up that I don't know how to dance to ..yet. ( i'm still learning) This is when I'm more than happy to see the women I dance with having one dance with another man, and then being asked to dance by another man. 

And those men are not left standing with no one to dance with. This happens to me often. lately we have had 5 to 6 more men than women at the dances.

Knowing she's sitting next to me, again, going home with me, and will spend several dances with me.

Those that dance with only 'the select few'- be it younger, highly experienced, very attractive- get asked to leave. Or  those who are way to aggressive- won't let go, (grope hold, kiss, inappropriately) won't let anyone else dance with their man or woman, they get asked to leave and are barred from ever returning.

There's always the option of leaving whenever you've had enough dancing and going somewhere else for one on one time. ( the beach is right across the street, along with other restaurants- and my home one mile away!)

You remember Ava? My last date? She was always 'socializing' and to this day still acts afraid- not ready - of 'one on one time' ( and I don't mean sex- I mean more conversation, intimacy, and deeper conversations) Debbie may be the same way. Too early to tell.

I heard from Debbie Christmas night.


Debbie: I'm scheduled to work New Year's Eve. Maybe I could go with you another time? Sounds fun. Enjoy. Tty sometime this week.



My response: You would probably like a Sat. night dance better.Less people,over by 10:00pm. We could dance together more!

I still don't know your schedule and when we can talk on the phone? The ball is in your court! I look forward to hearing from you!

Thanks so much for letting me know! I'll have tomorrow off, and back to work Tuesday.



So, reader...tell me your thoughts about this?

I'll give you mine: Again I'm disappointed. If you're reaching out to date someone you need to get the basics out of the way.

No 1. When are you available? (your schedule)

No. 2. Back to No. 1. How do you expect me to ask you to meet ( time and place ) when you give me no information?

No. 3. I'm glad I did not give her my 'summary -from Match.com' telling her about myself, if she remains "too busy".

No. 4. My guess is that she works 2nd shift. Evenings, weekends, holidays.That's a built in barrier and will not work out.

No. 5. I f I meet a new woman at the New years Dance, and she 'communicates' with me, ie: is available, gives me her schedule,and shares basic dating info .with me ( like a summary on a dating site) and wants to meet in the next few days ( not" maybe, possibly, let me check my schedule, if I have time", etc..)
Then.. why even bother with distant Debbie? ( her loss) And HELLO new date!!

I read my texts to my 21 yr. old son. His take on it: " Sounds like you're giving 80% and getting 20% back? That's the way it works with a lot of girls. ( he's tired of it!)

This Common Texting Mistake Makes You Look Desperate
Stop doing this to save your new relationships

I look back at how I used to text and cringe.

I’ve made all of the mistakes. Coming on too strong, being cold, ghosting, trying too hard — you name it and I did it. Not surprisingly, my texting habits derailed most relationships before they could get off of the ground.

One mistake, though, destroyed potential romance more than any other.

I’m talking about a popular texting habit called “In the Blue.”

What Is “In the Blue” Texting?
I borrowed the term “In the Blue” from Matthew Hussey, a famous YouTuber and relationship coach. He coined the term from how your phone messages look when the attraction/interest ratio in the relationship is massively skewed.

And not in your favor.

On many phones, your text messages show in blue color. Therefore, being “In the Blue,” means that you are sending lots of unanswered messages back-to-back.

In other words, it looks like this…

You: Hey! How’s your day?

Them: Pretty good.

You: Okay… just wanted to say hi

Them: *crickets*

You: Thinking of you!

You: Why am I so hungry!!??

You: My boss just asked me to lunch. I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing. Or maybe both. I’m thinking chicken wings. But what if I get chicken in my teeth? I don’t know what to do.

You: Just left the office, headed to the gym.

“In the Blue” is a very one-sided conversation. It’s when your entire text messaging screen looks blue because all of the messages are from you.

The other person is not responding.

Sometimes that’s a really big problem. Here’s why…

Why “In the Blue” Texting Makes You Look Desperate
Texting is fun. It’s easy. And in a world where we are constantly connected, it feels natural to want to text all day long.

But there’s a problem with that.

It can make you look needy and desperate for attention — even if you’re not.

When you send too many texts without getting any replies, it creates a very lopsided conversation. It’s like you’re the only one talking (because you are).

And that’s not attractive.

Double and triple texting in quick succession without waiting for a response is a common habit, especially when we’re texting someone we’re interested in, but it’s one that can easily backfire.

When we double or triple text, we’re effectively breaking one of the cardinal rules of texting: always leave them wanting more.

By bombarding our match with a series of texts, we’re coming on too strong and giving them the impression that we’re desperate for their attention. We’re overinvesting, throwing the balance of “perceived value” in the relationship completely off-kilter.

This not only makes us look needy and clingy, but it also makes it much less likely that they’ll want to continue talking to us.

The other person subconsciously thinks that they have you, that there is no more chase, and that they are the prize.

They might also start to wonder if you “deserve” them.

After all, desperation and “In the Blue” texting place you in the same camp with over-eager job seekers, panhandlers, and used car salesmen — none of which are attractive to most people.

How “In the Blue” Texting Happens
It doesn’t matter if you’re the most confident person in the world, when you text someone and they don’t respond, it can feel like a personal rejection.

“In the Blue” texting can trigger feelings of insecurity.

Insecurity can motivate you to send another text, which perpetuates the cycle.

The more texts you send without getting a response, the more insecure you feel. The more insecure you feel, the more texts you send… and so on.

It’s easy to see how this spiral can quickly get out of control.

One text message turns into two, which turns into three or four, and before you know it, you’re “In the Blue.”

The good news is that there’s an easy way to break this cycle and avoid looking desperate.

How To Avoid Looking Desperate When Texting
The key to avoiding the “In the Blue” texting trap is simple: always leave them wanting more.

When you text someone, put your phone down and do something else. Give the other person time and space to respond.

If they don’t respond right away, don’t send another text. Simply wait until they get back to you.

They might be busy at work, school, running chores, taking a shower, or napping.

They also might want time alone for a while.

Don’t text, call, or reach out to them on social media until they get back to you. Go about your own life. Don’t get angry, frustrated, or resentful. They might have a very good reason for not responding.

You will probably be tempted to text them again — bad habits die hard.

However, find a way to stop yourself. Double texting won’t help your cause. In the Blue texting will only make you more anxious or upset. Remind yourself that confident, busy people (like yourself) don’t wait around for others to respond to them.

Instead, they get on with life.

Odds are good that the other person will eventually text you back. When they do, they won’t think that you are desperate or needy. The much more likely scenario is that they will find your independence and lack of neediness attractive.

This happened repeatedly in my own life.

When I stopped double and triple-texting, my relationships improved 100% of the time.

I felt better, the other person felt better, and the relationship went more smoothly. Even though it was a hard habit for me to break, I’m so glad that I went through the trouble.

I also learned an entirely new way to text: Mirror Texting.

How Mirror Texting Takes You Out of the Blue
Mirror texting is when you mirror the other person’s texting behavior back to them.

If they take a long time to text you back, then you take a long time to text them back. If they respond right away, you respond right away.

This creates a healthy balance in the relationship and keeps things from getting “out of balance.”

You don’t need to mirror and match every single thing they do in exactly the same way. That would look weird. Simply use their texting style as a template. Match their energy.

When you mirror, think about:

How long they take to respond
The length of their messages
The content of their messages
For example, if they send very short text messages, don’t send them a paragraph. If they send you lots of emojis and expressions of how much they like you, feel free to do the same.

Final Thoughts
The next time you find yourself in the dreaded “In the Blue” texting situation, remember these tips. They will help you break free from the cycle and avoid looking desperate.

Most importantly, always leave them wanting more.

It's somewhat 're-assuring' to know I'm not the only one!  Thanks for sharing your similar experiences!

Fortunately my 'dance community' offers me 3 different places to go 7 nights a week! However, it's mostly 'socializing'. You arrive alone, socialize, and leave alone. Then do it again tomorrow, and the next day.

I wasn't going to even mention dance to Debbie, instead i wanted to be a really good listener and be very attentive to Debbie and her needs and desires. I also bring much more to the table that needs to slowly be presented. I'm sure Debbie does too?

Do you think some people just don't know how to date? or are just trolling the waters, like you said? Debbie is an adult. I'm not interested in correcting, or teaching someone like a child. 
Although...I understand that their will be those out there that this is all new ground for them, and they need patience.. It gets confusing? What's a 'red flag' and when to show understanding?

GC: I think you dodged a bullet. More reason to talk to someone before asking them out. A Zoom or Facetime with someone will tell you a lot. As it is, you really don't know anything about her except that she works retail and you have a mutual acquaintance who said she'd like to meet you. I'm wondering why Debbi wanted to meet you and what she had been told about you. For all you know, too, she may not be a person whom you'd want to take to a party. #1 She doesn't seem to be a good communicator nor does she seem curious at all about you. I even find it odd that she would agree to go to even a dance party with a man she doesn't know. I sure wouldn't.

I find it weird and off-putting that she hasn't told you anything about herself nor did she share a picture.

Since she works retail, something I've done during holiday seasons, it is possible that she didn't know her schedule when she expressed interest in the party. The holiday season is very busy for retail workers. But, still, I think you're right to move on. I do suggest taking it slower next time and talking first on the phone with a person or meeting them for coffee.Looks, values, connection -- all are important and a Facetime or meeting for coffee can let you know if it's a relationship worth pursuing.

FWIW I do like to encourage people to talk about themselves on first dates, but if a guy only talks about himself and shows no interest in my life, he's not the man for me. So, while I agree with your way of handling first dates, remember to notice whether she expresses interest in you. If she doesn't, she's likely a narcissist or something similar. 

I don't think it's a good idea to date only one person at a time until you know a person well enough to know you are compatible. I would not expect a man to be dating only me until we each agreed after at least a few weeks -- that we were a couple and were going to be monogamous. I'd want to feel like I knew them reasonably well before making such a decision. FWIW, post SM lover asked me in December, 10 years ago, on a date that was 2 months later. He already was someone I was acquainted with as we were in the same theatre troupe, but I didn't know him well. When we went to dinner and a play in February, I got to know him better and learned we had similar values and interests. I also had checked him out with some of our mutual friends and learned he was a responsible and kind hearted person. Other than hand holding, we didn't do anything physical with each other on that date.   We went on perhaps 3 more dates over the next 3 months (my schedule was crazy because I was having to memorize lines for 2 plays), and finally slept together in May (we'd made out on earlier dates so I knew we had chemistry). I had him get STD tested beforehand. I also got STD tested. And I still insisted on condoms. Due to our being sexually and otherwise compatible, we kept seeing each other.  I'd told him that I wanted both of us to be monagamous, and he agreed, but, still, I didn't know how honest he was so that's why I insisted on condoms for the first several months. By August, we had evolved from friends with benefits (which was what I wanted originally) to being a couple and I stopped insisting on condoms. 

If a guy asked me out and told me he only dated one person at a time, I'd be worried. I'd either think he was lying or would fear that he was very impulsive. I know that women you've met on-line have told you they only date men who are only dating them, but I think that's very premature.I want to know and trust someone -- and feel confident in our compatability -- before dating only that man. Keep in mind, that when it comes to sex, I'm monogamous, but a first or second date may or may not lead to a relationship. No reason to cut off my options early.