Life after death:part 5.

northstarmom said:

Given how your experience with Rafaela played out -- with her for no apparent reason vanishing from your life and then reappearing with no explanation, I don't trust your friend's ability to set you up with people whom you might be happy with long-term. While your relationship with Rafaela felt good to you after being for years in a very dysfunctional marriage, after a while you realized that she had some major problems. I imagine that your acquaintance's other friends also have major dysfunctions.

I'll keep that in mind. I do remember the saying " don't shoot the messenger". Most 'matchmakers' are just that "the messenger".The responsibility of discovering the true person is mostly up to me,and to decide what my boundaries are and to enforce them.
Loving advice from a trusted outside perspective can be valuable too! ( like the books I've read about fear of commitment and the long distance runner.)

My experience and skills of "discovering the true person" judging someone,going with your gut,feeling the chemistry,etc... is an ongoing learning experience.
Something I shoved into a corner during my decades of a SM.

GC: "I'm just guessing, but if Debbie was okay with going months without meeting me ( or anyone) she's either not that interested in dating, not ready for dating ( healing from a break up or divorce?) or very uniformed and has a low self esteem about how to 'market yourself to a guy!"

Or she's a princess who thinks that guys should do all of the work to woo her.

This seems like a lot of work to try and meet up with someone who won’t even bother to send you a photo and/or engage you in any way. She seems to have zero curiosity about you, which to me means either she’s not interested in dating generally or wasn’t convinced by what her friend relayed. It all seems kind of generic, no interesting questions or funny repartee or even a photo. It feels like she expects you to all of the work. What is she bringing to the table other than being a single woman?

Either way, I would say that if she wasn’t returning your enthusiasm by the second interaction I would stop trying to make things happen. Maybe I would say something like, “This time of year is so busy, but if you’re interested I go to this dance every Tuesday and I hope when things slow down we can meet up there for a dance.”

What I think about Debbi and GC:

1. GC, please realize that just because someone supposedly vaguely expressed an interest in meeting you that you need to roll out the red carpet. You don't need to jump at that. It would have been appropriate to have asked your friend why her friend was interested in you, and to have gotten more information about the woman in addition to learning that she's "attractive" (Who knows what that means? People's views of others' attractiveness vary, and lots of people think their very homely friends are attractive especially when trying to fix them up with a date.), goes to church and likes dancing. "Likes to dance" also wouldn't be enough information to decide to ask a person out especially for a big day like New Years Eve.  Her being a church goer doesn't tell you very much either. Her beliefs may be very different from yours. She also might not believe in sex before marriage or sex without the possibility of reproduction. Instead of immediately texting her or messaging her and asking her out, you could have arranged a phone call or Zoom and used that to find out more about her especially whether she seemed to check the boxes of what YOU wanted in a partner. Keep in mind that whether to date someone is a decision for both of you to make. Normally both people are doing that. In your case, however, you sent your picture, license as if it were only up to her to decide whether you were worthy of her and were safe. Heck, I wouldn't send a copy of my drivers license to a person I hadn't checked out in other ways to make sure they seemed safe.

For instance, did you do a Google search to see if her name came up in a way that you wouldn't be able to trust her or that you wouldn't want to know her? There are, for example, women who are stalkers, thieves, assaulters, etc., and whose names have been in the paper for that reason. One example: My now deceased brother tried to get me to open my home to his adult daughter whom he had just recoonnected with (long story: Child was taken away from him and his wife because they were abusive. Child was adopted by another family). He praised the daughter to the skies, said she is a wonderful person who had never been to my state and wanted to visit. As he talked, I Googled her. What came up was a news story about her being charged with assault. No, I did not share my contact info with her or extend an invitation.

2. I can not think of any reason for you to see Debbi. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. She has expressed NO interested in you. She has disclosed no information about herself. There are no possible good reasons for her behavior that would make it worth your time to meet her. She's either a very dull person or a narcissist or she's only interested in you for a free meal. And it really seems like she has no friends or independent activities. People with friends and/or a sense of independence would not be reaching out or available to celebrate New Years Eve with a complete stranger. Let her go. I suggest replying something like, "My schedule is full right now so I don't have time to get together." Period. You don't need to explain or go out of your way to be polite (and in doing so promise something that you don't want to deliver). And your taking the time to respond as I suggested would be as polite as you need to be. If she replies or contacts you again, just ignore it. You don't owe her anything. Heck, you don't even know her!

3. What I would like to know is what you did New Years Eve at that dance party and if there were any promising women that you encountered. "Promising women" means women you enjoyed and met in real life. Those women are real prospects to get to know and to offer out for coffee or something that would allow you to check them out further. Debbi is just a fantasy who is wasting your time -- time you could put into checking out more fully the women whom you already encounter in real life.

To be absolutely clear: Continuing to correspond with Debbi is a complete waste of your time and at best would probably result in a dysfunctional, one-sided relationship.

Remember that a single man of mature age who has a job, likes to dance, treats women in a gentlemanly way, and also is capable of having sex and likes sex is a catch! No need for you to chase after someone whom you have never met, seen nor talked to. There are probably suitable and interested women right under your nose at those dance parties whom you are overlooking. I bet that women flirt with you at your dance activities and you don't even notice. Do you try to learn more about the women at the dance classes? Get them into real conversations? Ask them out for coffee? If you're not doing those things but are obsessing over the fantasy of Debbi -- there is something in you causing you to chase after women who are giving clear signs they aren't interested in you and/or wouldn't be reliable partners.

GC: "Debbie needs to put forth some effort, in these current times of " equal treatment".. ( something her friend Rhonda needs to convey to her)"

No one needs to tell Debbi how to date. Debbi is probably perfectly happy with her dating style just like the refusers that many here have or had were happy not having sex with us. Debbi's behavior reflects the behavior of someone who's not very interested in going on a date with you. Let her be Debbi and let you find someone who's compatible with you.

GC: "I'm going to wait until Monday ( a work day) and send her my generic response about the dance studio. I wouldn't be surprised if I hear from her days later asking last minute if she could meet me at the dance studio.
It's all just a guessing game but I've invested very little time or emotion into it. If it helps this woman- GREAT! If not ...very little lost."

You've put a LOT of time into this boring, unavailable woman. It's time to stop looking for someone whom you think you can help. (I remember you also spent a lot of time helping Rafaela including helping her choose good friends).

Dating is not an opportunity to be someone's therapist or parent. It's a chance for you to get to know someone, and to enjoy someone, who is the type of person you want to be with, not someone you have to fix or spend a lot of effort getting them to be available. I agree with NYartgirl that you seem to recreating a dynamic that was in your SM. I say that with empathy as I used to be attracted to men who appeared to be needy in some way such as being too shy to make a pass at me (which is what I thought was the case when I started dating my refuser ex husband0. Being in therapy when I started dating after my SM was what helped stop me from repeating the same pattern.

Start thinking about what you want in a partner, and make sure that your list includes more than wanting an attractive woman who is willing to go out with you and eventually have sex with you. And then look for that type of person. A good place to start screening prospective partners would be by checking out women who are in your dance groups.