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Post by M2G on Oct 1, 2017 6:12:39 GMT -5
So, during a rare conversation regarding our SM situation, I was told: "You need to woo me." What the FK does that mean? She doesn't want to go to movies or shows, doesn't like dining out, doesn't like flowers, doesn't like any of the (good) songs or poems I've written about her (she says that won't work) doesn't like to go for walks or vacations and for sure, a suggestion to pop over to a hotel for some mind-numbing sex will fall flat. I don't don't want to set myself up for that kind of failure. She likes chocolate but that didn't buy anything eather  ..Guess I'm left with getting groceries and working on the house? Hey - I already do that! (Less on the house but that's a $$ issue.) Not sure if I should even entertain this "request." All I really wanted to know was what she wanted - and I get cryptic nebulous. Anyone else facing this one, or something like it? BTW: I am immensely happy to have found this board!!! |
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Post by brian on Oct 1, 2017 6:24:37 GMT -5
Well... according to an earlier post of yours, revealing an online FWB got you some really great sex, so I would suggest that you say to her what you just said in this post (just replace "she" with "you"), and then mention that since she has been unwilling to fulfill her portion of the marital duties, that you have started up again with FWB in an attempt to retain your sanity as a man. Of course, that is likely to result in comments about how you define yourself and your sanity in terms of sex and blah, blah, blah, which can be returned with a hearty dose of, "We both have our needs and desires, and if you expect me to take care of yours, then you have to take care of mine too. If you don't want to do so, then I can either find someone else willing to do so (the FWB), or we can end this marriage that is apparently unfulfilling to both of us." But as baza is very keen to point out, have your ducks lined up (legal advice), and DO NOT BLUFF, as you'll lose all credibility if you do. |
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Post by M2G on Oct 1, 2017 6:33:12 GMT -5
.."We both have our needs and desires, and if you expect me to take care of yours, then you have to take care of mine too. If you don't want to do so, then I can either find someone else willing to do so (the FWB), or we can end this marriage that is apparently unfulfilling to both of us.". Thanks for that - only problem is that, if she did say OK, it would feel like manipulation IE: she'd have sex for me, not with me. Maybe I'm hiding behind my own issues on that point (and maybe I should seek counseling on that score). In short: I gotta believe my sexual partner really wants me or it just more masturbation. |
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Post by baza on Oct 1, 2017 6:36:42 GMT -5
You probably have formed your own opinion of what she meant,
Probably, many commenters will have a crack at interpreting it too.
But whether someone flukes the 'right' answer or not, it doesn't matter.
What you see is what you get,
Her actions - as your posts have so far described them - speak volumes.
What she "says"- not so much.
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Post by brian on Oct 1, 2017 6:41:47 GMT -5
Some other things you may want to consider:
Is she gasslighting you into thinking that YOU'RE the one with the problem?
As with many here, we have been led down a path of "if you would only do X" only to find out that once you do X, then they want Y, then Z, and A,B, and C as well. Once done with that, they add in D, E, and F. Then... well... you get the picture. It's done to distract you and delay things so that they don't have to do something THAT THEY CONSIDER UNPLEASANT.
Think about that for a minute...
SHE CONSIDERS SEX WITH YOU AS UNPLEASANT
SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU
There is probably little that you can do to change that into anything other than she might tolerate having sex with you if you do all the right things in the exact right order on the right day in the right place and right time. Think Rube Goldberg machine and the likelihood that everything works as intended to get to the end result.
If she won't change her attitude, then there is little you can do to convince her that sex with you is pleasant.
Now, I'm certain that you are not completely blameless, and that's okay too. None of us are perfect and we have all made mistakes. If she cannot cannot see past your mistakes and come to terms that sex is an expected part of marriage, helps secure and maintain the bond between two people, and should be a pleasurable activity for both of you, then you have your view into what the future of your marriage will look like. It's up to you to decide if that is acceptable or not.
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Post by brian on Oct 1, 2017 6:50:18 GMT -5
.."We both have our needs and desires, and if you expect me to take care of yours, then you have to take care of mine too. If you don't want to do so, then I can either find someone else willing to do so (the FWB), or we can end this marriage that is apparently unfulfilling to both of us.". Thanks for that - only problem is that, if she did say OK, it would feel like manipulation IE: she'd have sex for me, not with me. Maybe I'm hiding behind my own issues on that point (and maybe I should seek counseling on that score). In short: I gotta believe my sexual partner really wants me or it just more masturbation. I have struggled with this as well at times. We all need to make a distinction between happily engaging in an activity out of love for our partner vs. truly desiring doing something. For instance, you may not desire to do chores around the house, do the grocery shopping, or spend an evening watching a movie that you have little interest in, but you do it because it is meaningful to your partner. You can do things to make it more fun an interesting and can get very creative here, but the fact is, you are only doing it because your partner wants you to do that. I think we need to view sex in kind of the same way... it's not something that they intrinsically want to do with us, but they need to find a way to be a willing and enthusiastic (at least somewhat  ) partner in the activity, and we should help them try to find ways to make it more fun and interesting for them. This all assumes that they are willing to work on this part of things, which is often not the case by the time people land in this forum. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 1, 2017 7:06:19 GMT -5
So, during a rare conversation regarding our SM situation, I was told: "You need to woo me."... My W has said the same thing, and I have tried the same things, with the same lack of results. On occasion, a specific request may come out. Years ago, I got a better job and boosted my income quite a bit, and my wife enthusiastically exclaimed, "we need a bigger house!" I have no idea if I could have gotten laid if only I'd upgraded our home, but I was not about to go there. Our house was big enough as it was. |
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Post by M2G on Oct 1, 2017 7:07:45 GMT -5
Think about that for a minute... SHE CONSIDERS SEX WITH YOU AS UNPLEASANT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU That hit like a fist in the gut - and I thank you for it. I suppose I'm going to try to satisfy this one - then see what else may "pop up" afterward what comes next - or maybe just ask her point blank if the above statements are indeed the case (which I expect they are). I see your point too RE: "but you do it because it is meaningful to your partner." Maybe I'm being too hard-headed on that point, because it causes performance issues which, I must admit, probably contributed to this whole mess way back at the start. |
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Post by M2G on Oct 1, 2017 7:12:19 GMT -5
So, during a rare conversation regarding our SM situation, I was told: "You need to woo me."... My W has said the same thing, and I have tried the same things, with the same lack of results. On occasion, a specific request may come out. Years ago, I got a better job and boosted my income quite a bit, and my wife enthusiastically exclaimed, "we need a bigger house!" I have no idea if I could have gotten laid if only I'd upgraded our home, but I was not about to go there. Our house was big enough as it was. Had something similar too - was promised a pretty god pay increase that never happened, meanwhile the W went wild on the CC. Still trying to dig us out of that hole.. |
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Post by tirefire on Oct 1, 2017 9:14:04 GMT -5
SHE CONSIDERS SEX WITH YOU AS UNPLEASANT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU Please keep repeating this. baza, northstarmom and a few others keep posting these basic truths that are so simple but I'm having trouble getting them to soak in. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 1, 2017 9:57:20 GMT -5
SHE CONSIDERS SEX WITH YOU AS UNPLEASANT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU Please keep repeating this. baza , northstarmom and a few others keep posting these basic truths that are so simple but I'm having trouble getting them to soak in. Many of us can add onto that: SHE CONSIDERS SEX AS UNPLEASANT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH ANYONE EVER AGAIN THE TIMES SHE DID WAS LONG AGO, BAIT AND SWITCH, AND FOR PROCREATION. |
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 1, 2017 10:57:17 GMT -5
Sounds like sex is the least of it. She doesn't want to do anything with you.
Time to find a new partner and let her live the life she wants for herself.
In marriage you either grow together or you grow apart.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 1, 2017 10:58:06 GMT -5
It is very hard to allow yourself to accept the fact that your wife considers sex with you to be unpleasant and she does not want to engage in it with you. There is nothing you can do to change her feelings.
However, once you allow yourself to accept this, you will be able to free yourself so you can seek love and sex from someone who does lust for you and does enjoy sex with you.
I have found that understanding that lust is based on chemical attraction, something beyond our control, helps one to accept that one's aversive spouse is not and will not be sexually attracted to you. And to accept that while understanding that body chemistry is unique and uncontrollable. According to what I've read, people tend to lust after those whose immune system is opposites their own. Thus, there are women who would lust for you.
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Post by M2G on Oct 1, 2017 11:27:40 GMT -5
SHE CONSIDERS SEX WITH YOU AS UNPLEASANT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU Please keep repeating this. baza , northstarmom and a few others keep posting these basic truths that are so simple but I'm having trouble getting them to soak in. Many of us can add onto that: SHE CONSIDERS SEX AS UNPLEASANT SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH ANYONE EVER AGAIN THE TIMES SHE DID WAS LONG AGO, BAIT AND SWITCH, AND FOR PROCREATION. Keep repeating that and hopefully I will come to believe it. I don't want to believe it. I was trained at an early age to lay low, always be ready to fend off attack, always be ready to provide the answer that the abuser wants to hear. Only very recently did it finally come to me: THERE IS NO CORRECT ANSWER! When you are scheduled for pain, you are going to get pain, because it's not your choice, it's your abuser's choice - and there's nothing you can do to change it (as a child). Never thought of my W as an abuser, until this week when I stumbled across this group. I thought I was in this with about .000001% of the population. I fell for the stereotype that this was a just man's issue, and it is-what-it-is, but when I saw how many SM refused victims were female I really lost my $hit! Eyes wide with terrified realization. (My heartfelt condolences to everyone in the situation, M & F alike.) I never correlated the similarity between my step abomination, and my wife. My step bastard abomination has lost most of his power at this point; I still think about him almost every day (even though he's been dead almost two decades) but there's no terror anymore, well, not so much terror. With my W, it's worse, really far worse - because she is such a huge part of my life, and in many ways I still respect and admire her - so the whole SM thing hits THAT much harder, IE, if an asshole calls me an asshole why care, but when it comes from the mouth of someone you love? Yesterday I was working out a bit. ..Started again about 4 weeks ago but for some reason keeping it a secret. She asked why I was doing it, I said I don't have the $$ for a new wardrobe. Maybe I should start working on the house - in case it needs to be sold. Strangest thing, and what got me searching, is that I just broke away from 2 year situation with having a classic Narcissistic Personality Disordered boss, at a company I'd worked at for 12 years (and where I was very well regarded, productive, and happy). I spotted his NPD almost instantly - because it was step NPD to a classic "T." With W's help (she is very good at that kind of situation - as I mentioned in my story linked below) I ended up leaving that company to work for one of my clients and, as a bonus, the NPD boss lost his job the day before I left. My doing. Proud of it. I saved the remaining employees from they hell they were living in. The bad part: I came home from that last day with the weight of the world off of my shoulders - but then, I felt another weight creeping in, masked by the fore-mentioned NPD boss. She was sitting next to me on the couch. The most bewildering part: She's as good as they come on her message boards, a hero member, helping others. Why doesn't she want to help our marriage? Why doesn't she want to help me? See the quotes above, I guess, for the answer. |
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Post by M2G on Oct 1, 2017 11:38:22 GMT -5
PS: thanks bballgirl and northstarmom -that really helped |
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) partner in the activity, and we should help them try to find ways to make it more fun and interesting for them.
