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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 18:16:37 GMT -5
I will say this about outsourcing, and I have seen this before. It will slow down your exit. It changes your motivation and your focus. ironhamster, can you say more about this? How do you think it slows down the exit? I am not questioning your opinion- just wanting to understand it better. I just joined this forum and I feel like I am reading everything with gusto, like "Finally, people who know what I am going through!" Feels so good and way way too real at the same time. I have not engaged in any outsourcing. I think about it.... I am actually working on having enough hope to try yet again to make this mess better. |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 18:21:08 GMT -5
My general question is when do you admit that a goal is unattainable?
I think I am there but there is this little nagging voice in my head that tells me I am failing at marriage if I leave, that I will scar my kids for life, that I will be all alone. Really I don't think you can get more lonely than being in a SM without any affection, hugging, cuddling, kissing, hand holding.... NOTHING physical at all. And he still tells me it will work out and to let it go and not to push.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 9, 2017 18:34:14 GMT -5
I will say this about outsourcing, and I have seen this before. It will slow down your exit. It changes your motivation and your focus. ironhamster, can you say more about this? How do you think it slows down the exit? I am not questioning your opinion- just wanting to understand it better. I just joined this forum and I feel like I am reading everything with gusto, like "Finally, people who know what I am going through!" Feels so good and way way too real at the same time. I have not engaged in any outsourcing. I think about it.... I am actually working on having enough hope to try yet again to make this mess better. , in my case, I have two big issues. 1) my wife could trace down my current AP, who has a lot more to lose than I do. 2) I do not want to create waves with my wife, because if she gets pissed and suspicious, see reason #1. Earlier this summer, I was calling my wife out on her bullshit. I was putting a lot of pressure on her. I wanted to have an understanding with her, an open marriage, an acknowledgement that she can not and never will be capable of loving me the way I need to be loved. I don't have the guts to push like that, now. |
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Post by h on Oct 9, 2017 18:39:19 GMT -5
My general question is when do you admit that a goal is unattainable? I think I am there but there is this little nagging voice in my head that tells me I am failing at marriage if I leave, that I will scar my kids for life, that I will be all alone. Really I don't think you can get more lonely than being in a SM without any affection, hugging, cuddling, kissing, hand holding.... NOTHING physical at all. And he still tells me it will work out and to let it go and not to push. Push. Keep pushing. Don't stop pushing until he either changes or makes it clear that he never will. Staying in a relationship that makes you miserable isn't good for your kids either. My parents stayed together for way too long and it was obvious that they were not happy with each other. They finally divorced when I went to college and wasn't around to be the buffer between them. If your kids are really young, they will adjust. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 9, 2017 19:03:57 GMT -5
One more note on outsourcing. Some of us have reasons for staying that are controversial, such as, "for the kids." This is the situation for both me and my AP. When the kids are raised, we are free.
If you do do not have kids, or your home is toxic, I think it is better to make a clean break. Affairs, frankly, suck in comparison to normal relationships, and, they are harder to find. I won't bother to list all the good points I have, but the most repulsive thing that available women see about me is my marriage.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 19:09:00 GMT -5
One more note on outsourcing. Some of us have reasons for staying that are controversial, such as, "for the kids." This is the situation for both me and my AP. When the kids are raised, we are free. If you do do not have kids, or your home is toxic, I think it is better to make a clean break. Affairs, frankly, suck in comparison to normal relationships, and, they are harder to find. I won't bother to list all the good points I have, but the most repulsive thing that available women see about me is my marriage. Interesting, thanks. I do not think I need to involve someone else at this point (although my body and my ego would like to argue). I do have kids but they are 14 and 16. I feel like I am trying to wait until my youngest is done with HS. That will give me time to try to do this smart- untangle our finances, etc. BUT 4 MORE SM YEARS FEELS LIKE A LOOOOOOONG TIME!!! |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 19:10:29 GMT -5
My general question is when do you admit that a goal is unattainable? I think I am there but there is this little nagging voice in my head that tells me I am failing at marriage if I leave, that I will scar my kids for life, that I will be all alone. Really I don't think you can get more lonely than being in a SM without any affection, hugging, cuddling, kissing, hand holding.... NOTHING physical at all. And he still tells me it will work out and to let it go and not to push. Push. Keep pushing. Don't stop pushing until he either changes or makes it clear that he never will. Staying in a relationship that makes you miserable isn't good for your kids either. My parents stayed together for way too long and it was obvious that they were not happy with each other. They finally divorced when I went to college and wasn't around to be the buffer between them. If your kids are really young, they will adjust. Thanks for this. I feel like I am on the "College plan." My kids are 14 and 16. And for now I am still pushing. I just wish I had a little more hope that there was something to push for! |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 9, 2017 19:16:45 GMT -5
My general question is when do you admit that a goal is unattainable? I think I am there but there is this little nagging voice in my head that tells me I am failing at marriage if I leave, that I will scar my kids for life, that I will be all alone. Really I don't think you can get more lonely than being in a SM without any affection, hugging, cuddling, kissing, hand holding.... NOTHING physical at all. And he still tells me it will work out and to let it go and not to push. IMO, we are all here because we have a relationship that has already failed. Breaking up the marriage does not make it a failed relationship. Let's reverse this. If we have a relationship that is not meeting our needs, and will never meet our needs, but we stick it out, is that a winning relationship? The trophy they hand out at my fifty year wedding anniversary can never compensate for the anguish I have already been put through, much less doubling down on it. If your home is toxic, your kids are already being scarred. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 9, 2017 19:22:51 GMT -5
Four years here, too. It is a long time. I decided I cannot just wait it out,though. I could wait and beg when the sex was three times a year and I thought it was my fault. I always had hope things would improve. Now, I realize they are not. Even when the frequency increased, she DID NOT LIKE intimacy. I cannot get the connection I need from her, and I'm just not going to keep living like that.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 19:51:47 GMT -5
My general question is when do you admit that a goal is unattainable? I think I am there but there is this little nagging voice in my head that tells me I am failing at marriage if I leave, that I will scar my kids for life, that I will be all alone. Really I don't think you can get more lonely than being in a SM without any affection, hugging, cuddling, kissing, hand holding.... NOTHING physical at all. And he still tells me it will work out and to let it go and not to push. IMO, we are all here because we have a relationship that has already failed. Breaking up the marriage does not make it a failed relationship. Let's reverse this. If we have a relationship that is not meeting our needs, and will never meet our needs, but we stick it out, is that a winning relationship? The trophy they hand out at my fifty year wedding anniversary can never compensate for the anguish I have already been put through, much less doubling down on it. If your home is toxic, your kids are already being scarred. He shoots, he scores. A direct hit! Yes, I agree it is already failed. Would I really be here otherwise? I do wonder how much having an AP or outsourcing has helped you move to where you are. You are further on the path of letting go and moving on than I am. It is helpful. And I don't think our house is toxic- I'd like to think I wouldn't do that to my kids. H and I laugh together and genuinely talk about our work or politics, etc. We are really dedicated to a family game night that has lots of laughter, teasing, fun with all four of us. Obviously my kids see we don't sleep in the same bed but that has been going on for so long I don't think they question it. I am more worried about what we are modelling as normal for them. I always saw my parents hug and kiss and hold hands. They have never seen that. |
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Post by h on Oct 9, 2017 19:54:57 GMT -5
Push. Keep pushing. Don't stop pushing until he either changes or makes it clear that he never will. Staying in a relationship that makes you miserable isn't good for your kids either. My parents stayed together for way too long and it was obvious that they were not happy with each other. They finally divorced when I went to college and wasn't around to be the buffer between them. If your kids are really young, they will adjust. Thanks for this. I feel like I am on the "College plan." My kids are 14 and 16. And for now I am still pushing. I just wish I had a little more hope that there was something to push for! So it looks like you have 3-4 years left. If your decision is made, then I would start preparing. Are you self sufficient as far as earning an income you can live on? Do you have any savings to get started with? If not, I would get started on planning ahead. |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 20:02:12 GMT -5
Thanks for this. I feel like I am on the "College plan." My kids are 14 and 16. And for now I am still pushing. I just wish I had a little more hope that there was something to push for! So it looks like you have 3-4 years left. If your decision is made, then I would start preparing. Are you self sufficient as far as earning an income you can live on? Do you have any savings to get started with? If not, I would get started on planning ahead. Yes, I have started to gently plan. I am the only income right now, my H is in grad school, which complicates things as well because he is totally dependent on me. Just complicates the planning and means no savings at the moment but I am working on a plan with a friend that is a financial planner. AND still pushing! |
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Post by h on Oct 9, 2017 20:03:58 GMT -5
IMO, we are all here because we have a relationship that has already failed. Breaking up the marriage does not make it a failed relationship. Let's reverse this. If we have a relationship that is not meeting our needs, and will never meet our needs, but we stick it out, is that a winning relationship? The trophy they hand out at my fifty year wedding anniversary can never compensate for the anguish I have already been put through, much less doubling down on it. If your home is toxic, your kids are already being scarred. He shoots, he scores. A direct hit! Yes, I agree it is already failed. Would I really be here otherwise? I do wonder how much having an AP or outsourcing has helped you move to where you are. You are further on the path of letting go and moving on than I am. It is helpful. And I don't think our house is toxic- I'd like to think I wouldn't do that to my kids. H and I laugh together and genuinely talk about our work or politics, etc. We are really dedicated to a family game night that has lots of laughter, teasing, fun with all four of us. Obviously my kids see we don't sleep in the same bed but that has been going on for so long I don't think they question it. I am more worried about what we are modelling as normal for them. I always saw my parents hug and kiss and hold hands. They have never seen that. Your kids absolutely notice the way you act towards each other. Granted, whether they consciously realize it or not, your kids benefit from you and your H trying to be civil but they do pick up on the distance between you. They know and it is affecting what they perceive as normal behavior in a relationship. If I were you, when you feel your kids are old enough, I would be honest with them and have the awkward talk. Let them know that your relationship isn't normal and that they shouldn't use it as an example of what they should expect or emulate. |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 20:17:13 GMT -5
He shoots, he scores. A direct hit! Yes, I agree it is already failed. Would I really be here otherwise? I do wonder how much having an AP or outsourcing has helped you move to where you are. You are further on the path of letting go and moving on than I am. It is helpful. And I don't think our house is toxic- I'd like to think I wouldn't do that to my kids. H and I laugh together and genuinely talk about our work or politics, etc. We are really dedicated to a family game night that has lots of laughter, teasing, fun with all four of us. Obviously my kids see we don't sleep in the same bed but that has been going on for so long I don't think they question it. I am more worried about what we are modelling as normal for them. I always saw my parents hug and kiss and hold hands. They have never seen that. Your kids absolutely notice the way you act towards each other. Granted, whether they consciously realize it or not, your kids benefit from you and your H trying to be civil but they do pick up on the distance between you. They know and it is affecting what they perceive as normal behavior in a relationship. If I were you, when you feel your kids are old enough, I would be honest with them and have the awkward talk. Let them know that your relationship isn't normal and that they shouldn't use it as an example of what they should expect or emulate. God, that so hurts to hear. But it is really spot on. Thank you for saying the things no one else in my life can say because no one understands. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 9, 2017 20:17:40 GMT -5
When my oldest daughter was planning her wedding, I felt compelled to talk to her to make sure she was not going to be on either end of such a messed up relationship. I also made sure she has a financial parachute, if she ever has to get out.
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