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Post by mescaline on Oct 4, 2017 7:17:05 GMT -5
My take on this is that it's a diversion tactic by your wife. She won't tell you what 'wooing' means and if she did I'm betting she'd suddenly come up with something else for you to do before she'd be willing to have sex. I'd agree. But how do we know? That's the really frustrating part for me, there's always the "what ifs", I'm certain most of the SM community fall into the "moving the goalposts" category, but there's always going to be outliers in the statistical analysis and "what if" my/your SM is one of them? How long do we keep trying to fix something that appears unfixable, but may not be? It's so easy to tie yourself up in mental knots when dealing with this crap! |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 4, 2017 7:44:07 GMT -5
My take on this is that it's a diversion tactic by your wife. She won't tell you what 'wooing' means and if she did I'm betting she'd suddenly come up with something else for you to do before she'd be willing to have sex. I'd agree. But how do we know? That's the really frustrating part for me, there's always the "what ifs", I'm certain most of the SM community fall into the "moving the goalposts" category, but there's always going to be outliers in the statistical analysis and "what if" my/your SM is one of them? How long do we keep trying to fix something that appears unfixable, but may not be? It's so easy to tie yourself up in mental knots when dealing with this crap! We keep trying indefinitely, because we have hope that we can find our what "wooing" means, that we can do it properly, and the result of this mysterious ritual is that we will have gratifying sexual experiences with our spouse. I can say that my biggest cause of heartbreak has been hope, and losing it has been freeing. |
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 4, 2017 10:55:54 GMT -5
I'd agree. But how do we know? That's the really frustrating part for me, there's always the "what ifs", I'm certain most of the SM community fall into the "moving the goalposts" category, but there's always going to be outliers in the statistical analysis and "what if" my/your SM is one of them? How long do we keep trying to fix something that appears unfixable, but may not be? It's so easy to tie yourself up in mental knots when dealing with this crap! We keep trying indefinitely, because we have hope that we can find our what "wooing" means, that we can do it properly, and the result of this mysterious ritual is that we will have gratifying sexual experiences with our spouse. I can say that my biggest cause of heartbreak has been hope, and losing it has been freeing. Back on EP - I wrote something about "hope". The jist of it was that hope is a waste of time. Hope did not get me my job. Hope did not help me lose weight. Taking action and doing something to make a change in my life resulted in a desired outcome. Yep hope is a waste of time but I still buy a lotto ticket and I hope to win someday.  |
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Post by M2G on Oct 4, 2017 12:02:21 GMT -5
Sounds like alcohol also is a problem for her. Indeed. But not for me, anymore  |
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Post by iceman on Oct 4, 2017 13:13:11 GMT -5
My take on this is that it's a diversion tactic by your wife. She won't tell you what 'wooing' means and if she did I'm betting she'd suddenly come up with something else for you to do before she'd be willing to have sex. I'd agree. But how do we know? That's the really frustrating part for me, there's always the "what ifs", I'm certain most of the SM community fall into the "moving the goalposts" category, but there's always going to be outliers in the statistical analysis and "what if" my/your SM is one of them? How long do we keep trying to fix something that appears unfixable, but may not be? It's so easy to tie yourself up in mental knots when dealing with this crap! For me it came very suddenly. After years of dealing with this crap I had a monent of clarity, an epiphany, where I understood that nothing was going to change. I don't know why it occurred when it did. There was nothing out of ordinary when she rejected me. A garden variety rejection that had happened hundreds of times before. But something snapped in me and I was no longer going to make the effort to try to fix the unfixable. My wife barely noticed for quite some time. She probably enjoyed the peace and quiet of me not hounding her and begging her to addreess the problem. Then it apparently occurred to her that I was withdrawing from her and our marriage and she got defensive but made no attempt to change anything. |
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 4, 2017 16:05:44 GMT -5
Back on EP - I wrote something about "hope". The jist of it was that hope is a waste of time. Hope did not get me my job. Hope did not help me lose weight. Taking action and doing something to make a change in my life resulted in a desired outcome. Yep hope is a waste of time but I still buy a lotto ticket and I hope to win someday. Hope... is believing in an outcome that isn't supported by the facts. In short: "It's a trap!" |
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Post by lwoetin on Oct 5, 2017 1:22:23 GMT -5
Woo sounds as helpful as what I got.... I need to have an emotional connection to have sex. I got stuck doing the dishes every day. But I have HOPE! and Faith, Love. |
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Post by wanderlust on Oct 5, 2017 3:02:06 GMT -5
I am really not in the position to give advice. I don't know what will work. I am experiencing similar issues. This is my first attempt at resoloution. I understand that odds are against us. If this is a person that you really love and want to have in your life you must be commited to bring about change. Address the issue of intimacy, not sex. Sex after all is just... sex. Intimacy is the bond that separates a marriage from all other relationships and what binds 2 soles together as one. All that we want is happiness and fulfilment within our marriages. It is not too much to ask. Communication is key. If your spouse loves you they will be receptive. If she is not, it is time to weigh the stay, cheat, leave option. Thanks Wanderlust, I appreciate that and hope you (and everyone else here) make progress toward a positive solution. Before I got wound up to take immediate action (as I must sadly admit I am prone to doing in many areas of my life) I decided to take a step back and think really hard about my own negative contributions to this SM situation. There are many. Maybe I will detail them later once it's sorted. I went to take a few personality tests (RE: disorders, not type) and very frankly the consistency of the outcome across multiple tests scared the living shit out of me. I could be an asshole (joking, but really not completely.) As I mentioned before - I am not always easy to live with. There's never been any physical abuse, but for sure I've played a huge part in bringing our relationship to where it stands at the moment. Words at times can be like bullets. Time to take a really good hard look at myself, before I do something that I will regret for the rest of my like - too much of that, already. Thanks again for all the help and support. I'll you all know how it goes. Miles to go, I have started journaling, to sort it all out. As I heard Dr. Phil say the other day, There are two sides to every pancake. so yes, self evaluation is important. Take a hard, critical look at yourself. Did I do something that may have caused or contributed to this? Do I have issues that need to be addressed? The only person we can effectively change is ourselves. Little things sometimes make a big difference. The best we can do for our relationships is to give our greatest effort. |
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Post by M2G on Oct 5, 2017 5:10:48 GMT -5
Out of time already to write much today, but I've been reading & thank you all again. We had a good night. Told her I was trying to work out a lot of things - she pointed me to some excellent resources, and left me a nice letter on the computer. Really nice. Had a couple good hugs too last night and I refrained from trying to rip her clothes off  One of her PD asshole relatives tried to swoop in and *save* her PD asshole dad-thing from the nursing home - the dumbass hasn't said *boo* to her or her immediate family in the last 50 years. More like a cash hunt if you ask me <doah>. Her "dad/groper" thinks he has all this money and keeps telling everyone about it. Yeah, right - if you want the money dude go ask the State to give it back. What a jack-off. May he rest in pieces. Anyway - we're talking about real stuff. There will be no instant fix. |
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Post by M2G on Oct 5, 2017 5:11:58 GMT -5
Miles to go, I have started journaling, to sort it all out. Not a bad idea - TY |
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Post by h on Oct 5, 2017 5:23:39 GMT -5
Woo sounds as helpful as what I got.... I need to have an emotional connection to have sex. I got stuck doing the dishes every day. But I have HOPE! and Faith, Love. Just the dishes? I got stuck with all the cooking and laundry too! Amazing, the things we all do because of "hope" |
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Post by h on Oct 5, 2017 5:42:47 GMT -5
In some cases, I would have to disagree. As I increased my efforts to fix my marriage, my W decreased her effort. The more things I tried, the less she tried. She always complained about being tired. I took over most of the household chores. She did not devote any of her new free time to me though. She just spent more time on Facebook and stayed up later so that I would be asleep by the time she came to bed. She said that I wasn't open enough with her, so I tried to have more discussions with her to be honest about my feelings. Those mostly just turned into arguments (also resulting in no sex) so I switched to letter writing. Those worked marginally better but didn't fix the problem long term. Every time I tried harder or did more, the result was her trying less. (Sorry if I'm being a downer. We fought most of last night and she slept on the couch. My patience is near gone.) |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 5, 2017 6:17:42 GMT -5
"Time to take a really good hard look at myself, before I do something that I will regret for the rest of my like - too much of that, already."
Another essential question: "Am I loving and clinging to someone despite massive evidence that they do not love me the way I want to be loved?"
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Post by M2G on Oct 5, 2017 11:08:44 GMT -5
"Time to take a really good hard look at myself, before I do something that I will regret for the rest of my like - too much of that, already." Another essential question: "Am I loving and clinging to someone despite massive evidence that they do not love me the way I want to be loved?" That may be the case, however the way I look at it, at this point - there's a lot of baggage on both sides. If I can clear mine, and she doesn't, at least I have a head start for whatever comes next. After all this time living in a SM, what's the hurry? |
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Post by M2G on Oct 5, 2017 11:17:31 GMT -5
In some cases, I would have to disagree. As I increased my efforts to fix my marriage, my W decreased her effort. The more things I tried, the less she tried. She always complained about being tired. I took over most of the household chores. She did not devote any of her new free time to me though. She just spent more time on Facebook and stayed up later so that I would be asleep by the time she came to bed. She said that I wasn't open enough with her, so I tried to have more discussions with her to be honest about my feelings. Those mostly just turned into arguments (also resulting in no sex) so I switched to letter writing. Those worked marginally better but didn't fix the problem long term. Every time I tried harder or did more, the result was her trying less. (Sorry if I'm being a downer. We fought most of last night and she slept on the couch. My patience is near gone.) Sorry to hear that h. Very sorry, and no apologies required. If my efforts end up the same way, it will be time to split. Slow recovery I can deal with, so long that there's steady progress. So far I have been successful (a whole day!!)  One thing for sure: doing chores, jumping hurdles, wooing, waxing the dog and mowing the cats and moving pianos - *hoping* - not going to cut it; all that shit is just a diversion, that won't make any damn difference to the real problem at hand. |
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