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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 6, 2017 15:09:50 GMT -5
Not The Talk but a talk. It was enlightening. And depressing.
Main points:
He told me in no uncertain terms that touch - any touch- makes him uncomfortable. I do not think that will change.
He also told me he's not ok with an open marriage. So basically, he doesn't want me sexually and likely never will but I'm not "allowed" to fill that need elsewhere.
I told him I am not going to live a celibate life.
He asked where that leaves us and I said I don't know. He said he's worried that we're started on the path to divorce and he doesn't want that. I agreed. (I do not want to divorce him but I won't live my life like this so it doesn't leave many options.)
He made an appt with his old therapist to get help again with his issues stemming from childhood sexual abuse. We made an appt with a couples counselor.
I am glad he's willing to get help and to talk with me about it. What I want is for us to be open and communicate and for both of us to stop living in denial.
I don't know if this is something that can be fixed but I want to KNOW that it's not before uprooting our lives.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 15:26:48 GMT -5
choosinghappyOk, look at the issues: 1. He does not want sex with you, 2. He does not want you to have sex with anyone else, 3. You will not live in celibacy, and 4. He does not want a divorce. Frankly, I don't see a solution under these circumstances. Unless one of the above things changes, the marriage cannot work. What he seems to be failing to realize is this: Unless you stop wanting sex, a divorce will happen! He needs to understand this in no uncertain terms. It never fails to amaze me how ignorant and selfish refusers are. Unless he shows some serious changes, he is an extremely selfish person. It is sad that he was abused, but there is no reason for you to suffer for the actions of someone else from a long time ago. He should have been getting therapy to resolve this issue a long time ago.
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Post by shamwow on Jul 6, 2017 15:32:22 GMT -5
It's always a good idea to make sure you have explored every reasonable avenue before ringing a bell that cannot be un-rung.
I think that it is reasonable to give him a chance to get treatment if he will make the effort. However, you need to have clear expectations as to what you are looking to see an what time frame you wish to see it in. Often "going to therapy" or "going to counseling" or "working on things together" is just a euphemism for stalling and trying to shut you up. Whether you communicate these expectations and the time frame to him is up to you. If it were me, I wouldn't. It merely gives him a minimum level he needs to hit to get you to stop nagging and how long he can stall before it becomes an issue again.
Your husband's therapist may be able to help him deal with his childhood sexual abuse. Your husband's therapist cannot help him (sorry about putting this bluntly) want to fuck you. That desire has to come from within him. If he doesn't have that desire and cannot truly kindle it within himself then you have a choice to make. Do you stay and serve the penance for someone else's sins? If so, you will need to be prepared to obey your husband's desire (ironic word choice intended here) for you to remain monogamous AND celibate. Or you can outsource against his desires. Or you can leave. All three options really suck, don't they?
Keep in mind, if you decide to be monogamous and celibate, you will revisit this decision over and over again. In 10 years, when you're in your 40's, you may decide you've had enough. But at that point another 10 years will be in the rear view mirror. As someone looking at those years himself, I can attest that it is a bitter pill. But everyone needs to make that choice for themselves.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2017 16:29:47 GMT -5
I think the counseling is a good idea but set a timetable as shamwow suggested. His advice was spot on. In my opinion because of the issues I don't think you and your husband will ever be sexually compatible. Marriage should be about compromise and the fact that he is unwilling to compromise on the celibacy is not very fair. If I still was in love with my husband and we had a functional healthy relationship except for the sex, enjoyed each other's company then I would outsource without him knowing. Two people that have sex just for the purpose of sex with no strings attached can be pretty amazing. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 6, 2017 16:54:30 GMT -5
I am glad you had such an honest talk. I was surprised that your husband is insisting on celibacy for you while he gets counseling. That seems very selfish. You already have been celibate for a long time. I wonder whether he is selfish in other areas that you have not yet noticed. Meanwhile, counseling could take years. I agree with those suggesting that you put a deadline on how long you are willing to wait for him to change .Otherwise, you could wait 30 years. It will reveal a lot to see how much he is willing to adjust his schedule to attend counseling regularly.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 6, 2017 17:18:44 GMT -5
Given your H's history of avoiding counseling, despite the fact that he seems to acknowledge the pain your enforced celibacy causes you, it seems to me that he is using counseling here to reset you. And even better, he doesn't even have to touch you. Previously he reset you with very occasional sex but it's been 3 years now since he could bring himself to do that.
The counseling can go on for years, and you will never know what he is doing there. He and his therapist could be playing video games for all you know.
I'm with the others, if you let him reset you this way, put a strict time limit on it. Counseling for sex abuse and other sexual issues has an extremely low success rate. You might want to research that point before making a decision. The fact that he is going there at the point of a gun (your implicit threat of divorce) pretty much insures failure. If he had any chance at all he would have done it on his own rather than using a relocation as an excuse to discontinue it previously.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 6, 2017 17:27:11 GMT -5
Is anyone here also dealing with a refuser who was sexually abused as a child? Or can anyone recall a previous poster who was?
I'm interested to see what happened there.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 6, 2017 17:46:36 GMT -5
I recall an extensive set of stories on the old EP site by a woman whose H had been sexually abused by a counselor in a summer camp. Your story is similar, except that she had another 10 years or so under her belt, and never made any progress. Her H got some counseling, I believe, but he was simply incapable of any sort of intimacy. He tried very hard but what he was able to do was just mechanical, with no feeling at all. And remember this was 10 more years down the road.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 6, 2017 17:48:02 GMT -5
choosinghappy, the positive part of this is that you have zero ambiguity about the situation. He is steadfastly against you having sex (with anyone). And you refuse to be celibate. He controls his actions. He doesn't control yours. And vice-versa. Getting him into therapy is great, but be reasonable about expectations. He's not going to improve radically - progress is likely to be very slow (years), very small, and very limited in the end. Be realistic that he isn't ever likely to be your lover. Are you really prepared to sacrifice yourself to change someone who seems to be content as he is? This may sound snarky, but perhaps a good topic for your own therapy would be why you're so determined to force a bad situation instead of acknowledging it.
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Post by ironhamster on Jul 6, 2017 19:38:24 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. The bones of your talk were just like mine. The denier demands that they get their way and you don't. In my case, she laughed at my counter-demand after she rejected my open marriage proposal.
If she thinks I'm going to keep living like this, she's insane. I've got options and I'm exercising them tomorrow evening.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 6, 2017 19:40:51 GMT -5
I recall an extensive set of stories on the old EP site by a woman whose H had been sexually abused by a counselor in a summer camp. Your story is similar, except that she had another 10 years or so under her belt, and never made any progress. Her H got some counseling, I believe, but he was simply incapable of any sort of intimacy. He tried very hard but what he was able to do was just mechanical, with no feeling at all. And remember this was 10 more years down the road. - I suspect this will be my fate as well if I let it. I truly do not think he is capable of ever enjoying sex or intimacy. I do want therapy to help him with some of his issues but I very much doubt he will ever truly WANT sex or intimacy with me. bballgirl - we are beyond sexually incompatible. We're on separate planets. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 6, 2017 19:45:19 GMT -5
This may sound snarky, but perhaps a good topic for your own therapy would be why you're so determined to force a bad situation instead of acknowledging it. Not snarky. I agree. I have started my own therapy this past week as well and am absolutely using it to come to terms with my true reality and make a choice from my (bad) options rather than defaulting to staying. But no, I cannot and will not remain celibate. I am coming to terms with the fact that he will never be my lover. Even if he tried it would never satisfy me because I would know he does not actually desire me (and sadly, never has). I will either need to outsource or will need to end it. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 6, 2017 19:47:13 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. The bones of your talk were just like mine. The denier demands that they get their way and you don't. In my case, she laughed at my counter-demand after she rejected my open marriage proposal. If she thinks I'm going to keep living like this, she's insane. I've got options and I'm exercising them tomorrow evening. What was your counter demand? Sounds like you're gonna get some tomorrow! Good for you. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 6, 2017 19:52:34 GMT -5
I recall an extensive set of stories on the old EP site by a woman whose H had been sexually abused by a counselor in a summer camp. Your story is similar, except that she had another 10 years or so under her belt, and never made any progress. Her H got some counseling, I believe, but he was simply incapable of any sort of intimacy. He tried very hard but what he was able to do was just mechanical, with no feeling at all. And remember this was 10 more years down the road. - I suspect this will be my fate as well if I let it. I truly do not think he is capable of ever enjoying sex or intimacy. I do want therapy to help him with some of his issues but I very much doubt he will ever truly WANT sex or intimacy with me. bballgirl - we are beyond sexually incompatible. We're on separate planets. Well my philosophy is that it's your body and your sexuality. What right does he have to deny you of that. I also believe that since he does not want to share himself sexually with you that your sexuality is none of his business. I was faithful for 21 years, 13 that were celibate. The last 2 I outsourced. I was smart and discreet about it. I never got caught but I was at a point that if I got caught I didn't care. As a woman it's not difficult to find a man to have sex with. You will probably have your pick just choose wisely. I know you may not know what you want but don't spend too much time denying yourself and refusing your needs. The first man I had sex with other than my husband was an amazing lover. He's now my fwb, it's 3 years later and sex is better than ever because we are so compatible. |
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Post by ironhamster on Jul 6, 2017 19:55:29 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. The bones of your talk were just like mine. The denier demands that they get their way and you don't. In my case, she laughed at my counter-demand after she rejected my open marriage proposal. If she thinks I'm going to keep living like this, she's insane. I've got options and I'm exercising them tomorrow evening. What was your counter demand? Sounds like you're gonna get some tomorrow! Good for you. When she realized I was serious, she offered reset sex. I said one event was not enough. It would have to be every night from here on out. Denied. We had the reset sex. I've figured out how to get my stamina back up. I hate reset sex, now. I hate looking at her clearly not enjoying herself or me. She could fake it for two minutes, but, not now. There have been no further offers, and I won't ask. I'm just done. |
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