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Post by ironhamster on Jul 7, 2017 10:13:25 GMT -5
The one thing I have a hard time understanding is how the refusers' are against an open marriage. If they do not want sex, then why should they care if their spouse gets it somewhere else? Clearly, lonelywife, your husband has no sexual desire for you. And at the same time, he does not want you to experience sexual desire with someone else. Whether we understand the refusers motives, I see the same thing with amazing consistency. I believe it is about control. I have mentioned this before. I started looking into kink to save my marriage. Two things that are consistent in the kink community is consent and communication. I've been to kink parties and seen partners connect with things that are simply brutal, but it's all been discussed before hand and it is what the participants want. Sadists get a bad name for inflicting pain, but, they are not inflicting pain to make their victim feel bad. They are inflicting pain to make their partner feel good. The refuser has a kink also, and they do not communicate it, and they do not do it to make their partner feel good. In this way, I will argue that refusers are worse than the most vicious sadists. The refuser is only interested in what the refuser wants to feel in control. This crosses the line to abuse. It's not compassion. It's not love. It's pure selfish need. |
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Post by shamwow on Jul 7, 2017 10:13:34 GMT -5
The one thing I have a hard time understanding is how the refusers' are against an open marriage. If they do not want sex, then why should they care if their spouse gets it somewhere else? Clearly, lonelywife, your husband has no sexual desire for you. And at the same time, he does not want you to experience sexual desire with someone else. Actually, I think that one is pretty easy. Our refusers are often quite satisfied with the amount of sex in the marriage (other than a nagging spouse always wanting more). They are also often content with the "perks" of marriage such as security, social appearances, help raising the kids, and a variety of other benefits of marriage. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you have needs, are not getting them satisfied at home, and start getting them satisfied elsewhere, you might not stick around. And if you don't stick around, then all the other benefits of marriage disappear for the refusing spouse. I suspect that if there was a guarantee that the status quo would be maintained that most of our spouses would be THRILLED at the idea of us not nagging them all the time for something they don't want to give. Demanding monogamous celibacy really is selfish as fuck (pun intended). But it is the only option available to them. And I suspect if you look at the number of people grumbling about their marriages on this site (and for that you need to include lurkers as well) compared to how many actually finally had enough and left, our refusers are making a bet with pretty good odds in their favor. |
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Jul 7, 2017 12:16:37 GMT -5
^^^this
So much truth.
It's not controlling my sex that makes him say I cannot outsource.
It is that I am his and he doesn't want to share... for fear I will not return.
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Post by baza on Jul 7, 2017 18:23:15 GMT -5
I've been trying to look at this from a husbands perspective, and I am imagining a scenario where Ms enna comes home from work and says to me - "I want to have an open relationship" - and how I might respond.
I think I would be highly resistant to the concept.
Usual immature and selfish reasons.
For example, in her adventures she might find someone who is way better in the sack than me, richer, younger, and decide to 'trade up' and give me the arse altogether.
I would regard the opening up of the deal to be the start of the end.
And, I think I would be jealous as all fuck, and that would quickly poison things, probably terminally so.
I'd like to be able to say that I'd be able to take an adult view and act in a mature and understanding way to such a proposition, but I think in the actual event, I would not act honourably at all.
Rather, I think I'd go apeshit from fear and jealousy, and most likely act to end the deal altogether in preference to the open option.
This is a personal opinion, not a suggestion, not advice.
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 7, 2017 20:44:36 GMT -5
I would not want my spouse in an open relationship with another man either. However, I would sacrifice my ideals and have an open relationship with another woman to save my marriage. Open, not hidden.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 8:12:57 GMT -5
who's life is worth more.
Yes, strange question, but one I have asked. Why is it ok that my wife gets the sex she wants? (which is none) Why cant I get the sex I want?
So she wins. her life is worth more then mine apparently. What if I was getting no food. Everyone would feed me..
Anyway, he gets what he wants and you dont. You can treat his problems as a medical issue and be supportive and deny youself as, I guess, you have been doing.
We can talk and talk and talk about all this. The longer we talk the longer we perpetuate the agony.
I imagine that he never wanted to be touched, so you never had sex?
Getting past the obvious question of why did you marry him...
You have a choice. Either accept the reality of the situation and live sexless or go find sex. That may mean a divorce. Again, his life is worth more then yours because he does not want sex and does not want you to have any either. He wins both times. What else does he control?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 10:02:19 GMT -5
A sexless marriage situation is unique to other monogamous relationships.
In most relationships sex happens between the two partners. In this normal situation, both desire sex in a monogamous context, I can understand one partner's unwillingness to explore an open marriage. You both came together to meet one another's needs in a emotional and physical partnership. An open marriage was not part of the agreement in the beginning.
In a SM, there is one partner who does not care to have sex with their partner. I would say in this relationship, an implicit agreement has been broken. The agreement to meet one another's physical and emotional needs. Sex is not important to the refuser. If it was, they would do it. The refusing spouse should allow their sexual spouse to have an open relationship. The refusing spouse clearly has no sexual desire for their partner. So why should they care if another person desires their partner?
Maybe I'm too accepting but if I could not meet my wife's needs. I would encourage her to go outside of our marriage. If I lost all sexual desire or had ED, I would not deny my spouse her sexual needs. I may be too accepting of things but this seems a more genuine approach and more loving than letting my spouse suffer.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jul 8, 2017 11:17:10 GMT -5
A sexless marriage situation is unique to other monogamous relationships. In most relationships sex happens between the two partners. In this normal situation, both desire sex in a monogamous context, I can understand one partner's unwillingness to explore an open marriage. You both came together to meet one another's needs in a emotional and physical partnership. An open marriage was not part of the agreement in the beginning. In a SM, there is one partner who does not care to have sex with their partner. I would say in this relationship, an implicit agreement has been broken. The agreement to meet one another's physical and emotional needs. Sex is not important to the refuser. If it was, they would do it. The refusing spouse should allow their sexual spouse to have an open relationship. The refusing spouse clearly has no sexual desire for their partner. So why should they care if another person desires their partner? Maybe I'm too accepting but if I could not meet my wife's needs. I would encourage her to go outside of our marriage. If I lost all sexual desire or had ED, I would not deny my spouse her sexual needs. I may be too accepting of things but this seems a more genuine approach and more loving than letting my spouse suffer. I agree. And if my spouse should determine that she actually would like sex with somone other than me, i will not only be happy for her but i will cheer her on. In my hunble opinion, no one should hate sex. If it isn't me for her, so be it. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 8, 2017 11:38:54 GMT -5
A sexless marriage situation is unique to other monogamous relationships. In most relationships sex happens between the two partners. In this normal situation, both desire sex in a monogamous context, I can understand one partner's unwillingness to explore an open marriage. You both came together to meet one another's needs in a emotional and physical partnership. An open marriage was not part of the agreement in the beginning. In a SM, there is one partner who does not care to have sex with their partner. I would say in this relationship, an implicit agreement has been broken. The agreement to meet one another's physical and emotional needs. Sex is not important to the refuser. If it was, they would do it. The refusing spouse should allow their sexual spouse to have an open relationship. The refusing spouse clearly has no sexual desire for their partner. So why should they care if another person desires their partner? Maybe I'm too accepting but if I could not meet my wife's needs. I would encourage her to go outside of our marriage. If I lost all sexual desire or had ED, I would not deny my spouse her sexual needs. I may be too accepting of things but this seems a more genuine approach and more loving than letting my spouse suffer. I agree. And if my spouse should determine that she actually would like sex with somone other than me, i will not only be happy for her but i will cheer her on. In my hunble opinion, no one should hate sex. If it isn't me for her, so be it. Hey, I whole heartily agree with you! My words where very similar about two years ago. Now.... now I look at that and think, " Once again, more of that giving, giving, giving, attitude. Put others needs ahead of yours, don't be selfish, what can I do for you today? How can I help you?" etc..etc.... (I worked many years in service industries) But there has to be an amount of receiving.....it's human nature. The foundation of a relationship, or it dies. The relationship, the terrible, controlling, one sided relationship, dies. Yet life goes on! LEARN from it! Without a test, you can't have a testimony! |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jul 8, 2017 11:56:54 GMT -5
I agree. And if my spouse should determine that she actually would like sex with somone other than me, i will not only be happy for her but i will cheer her on. In my hunble opinion, no one should hate sex. If it isn't me for her, so be it. Hey, I whole heartily agree with you! My words where very similar about two years ago. Now.... now I look at that and think, " Once again, more of that giving, giving, giving, attitude. Put others needs ahead of yours, don't be selfish, what can I do for you today? How can I help you?" But there has to be an amount of receiving.....it's human nature. The foundation of a relationship, or it dies. The relationship, the terrible, controlling, one sided relationship, dies. Yet life goes on! LEARN from it! Without a test, you can't have a testimony! Definitely. And my relationship with her is really most sincerely dead. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 8, 2017 19:21:20 GMT -5
I imagine that he never wanted to be touched, so you never had sex? Getting past the obvious question of why did you marry him... You have a choice. Either accept the reality of the situation and live sexless or go find sex. That may mean a divorce. ? @lostsoul - not entirely the case. I always knew something was "off" in our sex life. Looking back, he always seemed slightly uncomfortable. It was a glaring red flag I shouldn't have ignored but I did. He suffered from bad back pain for the first 8 years of our relationship so that was a convenient excuse and I believed it was because of the pain that he would sometimes refuse me. When dating we went from sex about once a week to slowly less and less and the last 3 years of our 10 year relationship were sex free, not counting the recent reset sex. Even at its most frequent it was never enough for me but I assumed when his pain got better things would improve. They didn't. They got worse and it was during counseling last year that he told me about his past sexual abuse. So I went 9 years not knowing about that. Now that I know, I am sympathetic, but having sympathy for him doesn't fill my needs so as you say, if I am unwilling to be celibate then I either need to outsource or divorce. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 8, 2017 19:40:33 GMT -5
It certainly sounds like his past sexual abuse was never enough of an issue. The fact that it was never mentioned until 9 years later, sounds like a lie. Another "convenient truth" to use as a manipulative stall to postpone the inevitable. It should also build your confidence to have the right to offer zero trust in anything he says or does. After a period of healing you can give your trust to someone who deserves it and will be trustworthy. You deserve it! (these are his problems. An adult needs to deal with/seek help for such problems on their own.) |
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jul 8, 2017 19:56:56 GMT -5
It certainly sounds like his past sexual abuse was never enough of an issue. The fact that it was never mentioned until 9 years later, sounds like a lie. Another "convenient truth" to use as a manipulative stall to postpone the inevitable. It should also build your confidence to have the right to offer zero trust in anything he says or does. After a period of healing you can give your trust to someone who deserves it and will be trustworthy. You deserve it! (these are his problems. An adult needs to deal with/seek help for such problems on there own.) I saw your post and wanted to comment - I'm waiting for a plane so I have a few minutes to reply.
We were in 9 years when my wife used that excuse which just piled onto 100 others. But I think she thought it was a fool proof excuse. It was a weak story, not abuse actually, just exposure to things not fitting for a young person. Your reality is that your situation will never change except for your deepening level of frustration and anger. His story is just another amongst many more that he'll pull from a closet when needed. You just need to ask where you'll be in 1 year 2 or..... God designed us to do the deed and as often as we see fit. |
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jul 8, 2017 20:13:05 GMT -5
Well, for the one institution that holds a society together, marriage too often seems to be a trap.
If you can use the link below, you'll see even Springsteen knows it....
Well, it seems like I'm caught up in your trap again
And it seems like I'll be wearing the same old chains
Good will conquer evil and the truth will set me free
And I know someday I will find the key
And I know somewhere I will find the key
Well, it seems like I've been playing your game way too long
And it seems the game I've played has made you strong
But when the game is over I won't walk out the loser
Yeah I know that I'll walk out of here again
Yeah I know someday I'll walk out of here again
But now, I'm trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Now it seems like I've been sleeping in your bed too long
And it seems like you've been meaning to do me harm
But I'll teach my eyes to see, beyond these walls in front of me
And someday I'll walk out of here again
Yeah I know someday I'll walk out of here again
But now, I'm trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Now it seems like I've been playing your game way too long
And it seems the game I've played has made you strong
Because, I'm trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
I'm trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
Trapped, oh yeah
I'm trapped
Songwriters
JIMMY CLIFF
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 8, 2017 20:30:23 GMT -5
Is anyone here also dealing with a refuser who was sexually abused as a child? Or can anyone recall a previous poster who was? I'm interested to see what happened there. I've been contemplating weather to share this or not. Just concerned if it has enough relevance? So.....When I was 18 yrs old, and away with friends on our H.S. Grad. trip I took a ride to a store with another man, a stranger. (Not that uncommon back in the 80's) He put his hands on me, he did things to me. Things happened...but not a lot happened. This was one time. One event, never again, a short amount of time. I hardly remember it. It was a long time ago. Yes , it's in my mind. (So is the name of my kindergarten teacher!). I've lived through, and experienced far more traumatic things in life. My point is ,"technically" I was sexually abused as a child. Words, lots of words. Tittles, descriptions, etc....Horrific, life changing actions that where forced upon me? Not in the least. |
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