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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 16, 2017 18:53:28 GMT -5
Hi Merrygoround, I'm late to this thread, I'm just back after two days away. You strike me as a wonderful, decent, human being. I'm very sorry that you find yourself here. As others have said, your husband is a controller; it's a distressingly common characteristic (my wife is a controller) but not one that you have ANY responsibility for redressing. You are responsible for your behaviour and he is SOLELY responsible for his - not you, not even a little bit. I don't know where I came across it but I found an article saying that if you are going to find yourself in an unhappy marriage then chances are you have the 3Ns - Nice, Naive and Non-confrontational. I had the set - what about you? I would not / could not do anything about the first two and struggled with the latter. Like you I didn't like rocking the boat and didn't, right up to the point where I stood up, stepped over the side and started swimming for the unknown shore. I'm almost there, struggling in the surf but almost there. Whatever you choose to do you'll find many, many supportive friends here. All the best Nice, Naive, and Non - confrontational. That's really good! Just to add on to that some. I also read a lot that a controller looks for a co-dependent. That's a term I hear a lot. There are support groups for codependents. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 17, 2017 2:25:30 GMT -5
Hi Merrygoround, I'm late to this thread, I'm just back after two days away. You strike me as a wonderful, decent, human being. I'm very sorry that you find yourself here. As others have said, your husband is a controller; it's a distressingly common characteristic (my wife is a controller) but not one that you have ANY responsibility for redressing. You are responsible for your behaviour and he is SOLELY responsible for his - not you, not even a little bit. I don't know where I came across it but I found an article saying that if you are going to find yourself in an unhappy marriage then chances are you have the 3Ns - Nice, Naive and Non-confrontational. I had the set - what about you? I would not / could not do anything about the first two and struggled with the latter. Like you I didn't like rocking the boat and didn't, right up to the point where I stood up, stepped over the side and started swimming for the unknown shore. I'm almost there, struggling in the surf but almost there. Whatever you choose to do you'll find many, many supportive friends here. All the best Hi there Dinnaken and i hope you had a nice break away. I think it's certainly coming to that now. I'm going to post a little about the latest discussion we had on this thread - disclaimer : I'm keeping it in one place so I can refer to it later. I trust this is ok. Don't want to feel like i am going mad, plus gives me dates to refer to. The naivety part i am not so sure i understand? Naive sexually? No, i had previous relationships that were sexually healthy and fulfilling prior to this. I am so grateful to have this place - i have nobody to talk to. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 17, 2017 2:46:53 GMT -5
So after an awful few days as i had dared to bring up the subject again - finished all my jobs, cooked a nice Easter lunch. He was very "polite" throughout. A beautiful day, i went to relax in the garden. Snoozing in the sunlounger, the sun is blotted out by his presence. Kneeling down, a kiss on my lips and "i cant do this on my own". I didn't understand that statement - with the tension of the past few days, i didn't have the strength to ask him to elaborate. I merely replied that he has never been on his own, i have supported him always, whatever the situation.
Unfortunately things escalated badly again but it became brutally honest - his words. I'm absolutely fine with honesty - rather have it out there good or bad.
I asked him the question if he was ok with us having such little sex (five times last year - similar the year before). Because if he was genuinely happy with that he had to be honest about it - and not pull the wool over my eyes anymore. I also told him i wasn't happy about that at all and in the meantime, my self esteem had pretty much been ground down to zero. Instead of answering the question, which by the way i asked him several times, he replied "what if i asked you the same question?". I replied that i would bend over backwards (pardon the pun) to bloody sort it out. I told him i wasn't content to keep trying, having conversations and nothing being resolved.
I asked him if he still desired me. I've never let myself go, kept my figure, I'm told how attractive i am. But he said when i am like this, angry about the situation, it is a turn off.
He said what about if he got sick? And no longer could? I refused to be drawn into a hypothetical debate. I could get sick - whatever. That doesn't address the present or the past twenty years.
Is there nothing i could do? Not mentioning the stuff i would like - but better, more intimate foreplay, different positions. His response, he wasn't a fifty shades type of guy. Lol
The one position works for him.
He says can't we just be nice to each other? Kisses and cuddles and see if that leads anywhere, successful or not. I explained my need of sexual intimacy to create a bond between us, otherwise we are pretty much just roommates. Ever time he agrees to work on it and nothing is resolved, i shut down a little more.
He says everything has to be right in his head. Everything has to be right with us.
He talked about our age difference - he's almost sixty. I replied well, what about your forties and fifties then?
I have no more answers to this. What else can i try?
One more thing - he said ok, finally he will make an appt with the doctor to get his testosterone tested. We shall see.
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 17, 2017 3:12:53 GMT -5
And one other thing regarding the testosterone. He said if it is found to be low and is the reason for all this and agrees to treatment - is it a "marriage helper" or a "marriage saver"?
Smack my head.
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Post by baza on Apr 17, 2017 4:18:32 GMT -5
It reads like he is fishing around to establish what would be the bare minimum he'd have to do to head this off before it gets out of hand.
In this respect, it is a pretty standard avoidant spouse stuff he is offering up.
What does seem different here - very different - is YOUR role in this conversation.
You seem to have managed this conversation, kept it on track, and pretty much ignored the bullshit elements.
Well done you !!!
If you can keep this up, you'll get this shit sorted out, one way or another.
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Post by dinnaken on Apr 17, 2017 4:50:12 GMT -5
Hi Merrygoround,
Thanks, I had a good time away, walking with friends in the English Lake District.
I was naive in the sense of being too trusting and rather unworldly, something of an innocent. I wasn't naive in the sexual sense, perhaps it would have been better if I had been but my first long-term girlfriend was sexually 'enthusiastic'; this meant that not only could I not 'fix' my sexless marriage (LOL), at the same time I was acutely aware of what I was missing.
This site is so helpful, just to be able to chat to folk in a similar situation. I'm fortunate in that I have one friend I can really trust and I told about my situation - just to hear it said out loud made such a difference, it made it 'real'.
For me, talking about the situation to my wife got nowhere; she wouldn't discuss it and so without intimacy my marriage just became hollow. Fortunately, I can leave and so that's the choice I have made.
Best wishes
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Post by tamara68 on Apr 17, 2017 5:22:35 GMT -5
Copernicus - sounds pathetic i know, but we will be at the hospital attending to his family member. Another thing - i kinda feel guilty writing about him. I guess this is normal to start with? It's silly because seeing it here in black and white, i see how unreasonable it is. Like the "transparency" thing he has, he thinks it's disloyal to talk about issues elsewhere. But you're right, i have to almost retrain myself and do this for me. Nobody else will. And this isn't what i want my kids to follow. I had that too. My stbx said the same for as long as we have been together. But the longer it lasted, the more I needed to talk about it with someone else. I don't think it is disloyal. That depends on what you do. You need other people as well and especially if you can't sort things out together with him, you simply HAVE to look further for help, advice, reassurance, comfort. I wish I had found this iliasm group many many years ago. All those years I felt incredibly lonely and that guilty feeling and the duty to be loyal made me isolated. And being isolated isn't good for anything. You need to avoid that or step out of it to make positive changes in your life. And he doesn't have the right to keep you feeling miserable. |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Apr 17, 2017 5:41:43 GMT -5
So after an awful few days as i had dared to bring up the subject again - finished all my jobs, cooked a nice Easter lunch. He was very "polite" throughout. A beautiful day, i went to relax in the garden. Snoozing in the sunlounger, the sun is blotted out by his presence. Kneeling down, a kiss on my lips and "i cant do this on my own". I didn't understand that statement - with the tension of the past few days, i didn't have the strength to ask him to elaborate. I merely replied that he has never been on his own, i have supported him always, whatever the situation. Unfortunately things escalated badly again but it became brutally honest - his words. I'm absolutely fine with honesty - rather have it out there good or bad. I asked him the question if he was ok with us having such little sex (five times last year - similar the year before). Because if he was genuinely happy with that he had to be honest about it - and not pull the wool over my eyes anymore. I also told him i wasn't happy about that at all and in the meantime, my self esteem had pretty much been ground down to zero. Instead of answering the question, which by the way i asked him several times, he replied "what if i asked you the same question?". I replied that i would bend over backwards (pardon the pun) to bloody sort it out. I told him i wasn't content to keep trying, having conversations and nothing being resolved. I asked him if he still desired me. I've never let myself go, kept my figure, I'm told how attractive i am. But he said when i am like this, angry about the situation, it is a turn off. He said what about if he got sick? And no longer could? I refused to be drawn into a hypothetical debate. I could get sick - whatever. That doesn't address the present or the past twenty years. Is there nothing i could do? Not mentioning the stuff i would like - but better, more intimate foreplay, different positions. His response, he wasn't a fifty shades type of guy. Lol The one position works for him. He says can't we just be nice to each other? Kisses and cuddles and see if that leads anywhere, successful or not. I explained my need of sexual intimacy to create a bond between us, otherwise we are pretty much just roommates. Ever time he agrees to work on it and nothing is resolved, i shut down a little more. He says everything has to be right in his head. Everything has to be right with us. He talked about our age difference - he's almost sixty. I replied well, what about your forties and fifties then? I have no more answers to this. What else can i try? One more thing - he said ok, finally he will make an appt with the doctor to get his testosterone tested. We shall see. " I can't do this on my own".....to me this means " life". He is aware that you are at breaking point and considering leaving. I don't see it as him not being able to "fix it" on his own, as that doesn't make sense considering it is precisely only himself that needs to change. He is using everything in his persuasive power to try to blame this, that and the other on his inability to engage normally in regard to intimacy. That 50 shades comment would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. Clearly he is never going to revel( I use the term loosely)in anything other than his one position ( presumably missionary). Can a man in his 60's so set in his ways really change? It sounds like he doesn't want to. He wants you to adapt to him. He has thrown you every excuse in the book and you have calmly and clearly countered each one. I would suggest he is terrified. It must be alarming to him when you are not screaming and ranting. Calm, measured replies are a clear indicator of someone who's just about done. All this of course is just my opinion based on the info given. I come right back to motivation...is it enough for you that he might TRY to give you what you want on the intimacy scale? Or is it that you want him to actually WANT to because he desires YOU rather than just not wanting to lose you? ( rhetorical) For me personally it has to be the latter. I feel that my worth to him is measured in his desire to please me both inside and outside the bedroom. If you truly love someone AND desire them sexually you should want to do things for them and enjoy the return of knowing your ability to make them happy and enrich their lives. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 17, 2017 6:38:56 GMT -5
Copernicus - sounds pathetic i know, but we will be at the hospital attending to his family member. Another thing - i kinda feel guilty writing about him. I guess this is normal to start with? It's silly because seeing it here in black and white, i see how unreasonable it is. Like the "transparency" thing he has, he thinks it's disloyal to talk about issues elsewhere. But you're right, i have to almost retrain myself and do this for me. Nobody else will. And this isn't what i want my kids to follow. I had that too. My stbx said the same for as long as we have been together. But the longer it lasted, the more I needed to talk about it with someone else. I don't think it is disloyal. That depends on what you do. You need other people as well and especially if you can't sort things out together with him, you simply HAVE to look further for help, advice, reassurance, comfort. I wish I had found this iliasm group many many years ago. All those years I felt incredibly lonely and that guilty feeling and the duty to be loyal made me isolated. And being isolated isn't good for anything. You need to avoid that or step out of it to make positive changes in your life. And he doesn't have the right to keep you feeling miserable. Tamara68, thank you for your response. This forum in such a short time has already been of great comfort to me - if only to serve that I'm not going crazy! I've just had a long talk with my mum and i think after all this time she seems to get it and how broken i am. Sadly the kids heard a lot of it last night and me in floods of tears - being young adults and them and me having such an open dialogue between us, it was very difficult just passing it off as a "tiff" between mum and dad. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 17, 2017 6:46:49 GMT -5
So after an awful few days as i had dared to bring up the subject again - finished all my jobs, cooked a nice Easter lunch. He was very "polite" throughout. A beautiful day, i went to relax in the garden. Snoozing in the sunlounger, the sun is blotted out by his presence. Kneeling down, a kiss on my lips and "i cant do this on my own". I didn't understand that statement - with the tension of the past few days, i didn't have the strength to ask him to elaborate. I merely replied that he has never been on his own, i have supported him always, whatever the situation. Unfortunately things escalated badly again but it became brutally honest - his words. I'm absolutely fine with honesty - rather have it out there good or bad. I asked him the question if he was ok with us having such little sex (five times last year - similar the year before). Because if he was genuinely happy with that he had to be honest about it - and not pull the wool over my eyes anymore. I also told him i wasn't happy about that at all and in the meantime, my self esteem had pretty much been ground down to zero. Instead of answering the question, which by the way i asked him several times, he replied "what if i asked you the same question?". I replied that i would bend over backwards (pardon the pun) to bloody sort it out. I told him i wasn't content to keep trying, having conversations and nothing being resolved. I asked him if he still desired me. I've never let myself go, kept my figure, I'm told how attractive i am. But he said when i am like this, angry about the situation, it is a turn off. He said what about if he got sick? And no longer could? I refused to be drawn into a hypothetical debate. I could get sick - whatever. That doesn't address the present or the past twenty years. Is there nothing i could do? Not mentioning the stuff i would like - but better, more intimate foreplay, different positions. His response, he wasn't a fifty shades type of guy. Lol The one position works for him. He says can't we just be nice to each other? Kisses and cuddles and see if that leads anywhere, successful or not. I explained my need of sexual intimacy to create a bond between us, otherwise we are pretty much just roommates. Ever time he agrees to work on it and nothing is resolved, i shut down a little more. He says everything has to be right in his head. Everything has to be right with us. He talked about our age difference - he's almost sixty. I replied well, what about your forties and fifties then? I have no more answers to this. What else can i try? One more thing - he said ok, finally he will make an appt with the doctor to get his testosterone tested. We shall see. " I can't do this on my own".....to me this means " life". He is aware that you are at breaking point and considering leaving. I don't see it as him not being able to "fix it" on his own, as that doesn't make sense considering it is precisely only himself that needs to change. He is using everything in his persuasive power to try to blame this, that and the other on his inability to engage normally in regard to intimacy. That 50 shades comment would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. Clearly he is never going to revel( I use the term loosely)in anything other than his one position ( presumably missionary). Can a man in his 60's so set in his ways really change? It sounds like he doesn't want to. He wants you to adapt to him. He has thrown you every excuse in the book and you have calmly and clearly countered each one. I would suggest he is terrified. It must be alarming to him when you are not screaming and ranting. Calm, measured replies are a clear indicator of someone who's just about done. All this of course is just my opinion based on the info given. I come right back to motivation...is it enough for you that he might TRY to give you what you want on the intimacy scale? Or is it that you want him to actually WANT to because he desires YOU rather than just not wanting to lose you? ( rhetorical) For me personally it has to be the latter. I feel that my worth to him is measured in his desire to please me both inside and outside the bedroom. If you truly love someone AND desire them sexually you should want to do things for them and enjoy the return of knowing your ability to make them happy and enrich their lives. Hi and thanks for your response. He is not sixty yet, but soon will be. No, it's not missionary position - it is my back to him, spooning. Even something as vanilla as missionary or me on top doesn't do it for him. I will only be calm from now on and take my tears elsewhere, out of sight. Honesty is the only way forward. |
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Post by seabr33z3 on Apr 17, 2017 7:58:07 GMT -5
No, it's not missionary position - it is my back to him, spooning. Even something as vanilla as missionary or me on top doesn't do it for him. I will only be calm from now on and take my tears elsewhere, out of sight. Honesty is the only way forward. Wow! Maybe it's just me, but l find this particularly disturbing. Not the position per se, as spooning sex is great! What this screams in terms of being his ONLY position is his total avoidance of interacting with you as a person. At least with missionary you have something to work with regarding eye contact, kissing etc. He gives you nothing here. He is literally " getting off" sorry to be so blunt. I know it's not helpful to ask why, but this begs so many questions for me. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 17, 2017 8:21:37 GMT -5
No, it's not missionary position - it is my back to him, spooning. Even something as vanilla as missionary or me on top doesn't do it for him. I will only be calm from now on and take my tears elsewhere, out of sight. Honesty is the only way forward. Wow! Maybe it's just me, but l find this particularly disturbing. Not the position per se, as spooning sex is great! What this screams in terms of being his ONLY position is his total avoidance of interacting with you as a person. At least with missionary you have something to work with regarding eye contact, kissing etc. He gives you nothing here. He is literally " getting off" sorry to be so blunt. I know it's not helpful to ask why, but this begs so many questions for me. His response to that is that it's the only position that works for him. I feel such a fool. |
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Post by dinnaken on Apr 17, 2017 8:46:17 GMT -5
Hi Merrygoround,
No, you are neither a fool nor crazy.
You've been doing the best you can, in ******* awful circumstances.
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Post by seabr33z3 on Apr 17, 2017 11:15:27 GMT -5
Wow! Maybe it's just me, but l find this particularly disturbing. Not the position per se, as spooning sex is great! What this screams in terms of being his ONLY position is his total avoidance of interacting with you as a person. At least with missionary you have something to work with regarding eye contact, kissing etc. He gives you nothing here. He is literally " getting off" sorry to be so blunt. I know it's not helpful to ask why, but this begs so many questions for me. His response to that is that it's the only position that works for him. I feel such a fool. Why should you feel like a fool??!! You have done everything to accommodate him. He is a master manipulator. It's what they do. Their expertise if you like. My H is such a good manipulator that I didn't see it for years. Put those thoughts from your mind. You are guilty of extreme patience and tolerance. No shame there. x |
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Post by shamwow on Apr 17, 2017 11:33:41 GMT -5
No, he has never been violent towards me at all. I don't have any fear of that. He says he loves me so much but i mainly think he has a fear of losing what he worked so hard for - the home and life he has. Really sometimes it gets to the stage where i think sod it all, he can have it all and i just leave. Fear not, sweet lady! He can have all of his self absorbing, childish, manipulative, behavior. While you have the law on your side. Twenty years here in the USA gives you life long alimony and most likely an even 50/50 split. Your cup is more than half full. You, and the family would get a fresh new start. Alimony depends on jurisdiction. None in Texas for example except in the case of EXTREME hatdship |
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