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Post by Copernicus on Apr 14, 2017 13:34:38 GMT -5
HI MGR
Your head must be completely overloaded by now! Everyone has been willing to dive in and offer advice, support and friendship, so you know you will not be alone on this journey. The point is - where to start? I think greatcoastal gave some great advice when he talked about respect for yourself - this is major! The best way you can show yourself respect is to set boundaries in place now. What behavior will you not accept from him anymore? You need to have a standard response ready, rather than trying to figure out what to say in the moment, but it has to be focused on what you will do, after all it's your boundary, e.g.,
"When you (whatever), I feel completely disrespected and I will not tolerate it any more. If you (whatever) again, then I will (what? What will you do? Leave the room? Go out? Knock over his toy soldiers?....)"
This is a clear boundary with a clear consequence. If you start setting these on the 'smaller' things (like, his tone of voice or something), and you *follow through*, you'll be able to do it for the more important stuff that is going to come. He's a controller. You NEED to have boundaries.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 14, 2017 15:31:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 15:41:37 GMT -5
GreatCoastal, thanks for some excellent points. I am already doing that in my head, so to speak. How many months until another futile attempt, to patch over the cracks - but i cant be that doormat anymore. I am so very patient - it's generally wait and see with me - maybe it will get better. My actions and face though (I'm very expressive and can be read like a book lol) tell a lot. For example, it's been a difficult few days and he's been quite offish (quite understandable) so i had started to pull back, seeing the priorities change and knowing what we are heading for yet again. At first i will do everything to make things good, make things comfortable - but after a while i start to shut down. At this point it's the questions from him on what is bothering me. Then he tries to be affectionate, surprising me with hugging and kisses which at that point i just want to reject. Then it's my problem again. Sorry, I'm not explaining that very well at all. Just makes me feel that i must be going crazy sometimes. No, you are explaining things just fine. My refuser had me at the point where I felt like I was wrong no matter what I did. If I tried being nice and not bugging him about it, then he would ask me to tell him what was bothering me. So I would - but if I talked about it too often, I was nagging or making a big deal out of something that "wasn't that important." He broke my heart by distancing himself, both sexually and emotionally. And I was supposed to be OK with that. I wasn't supposed to mind having sex twice a year; and him never wanting to do much of anything else, either. He did have some health problems. But I was eager to do whatever I could to help him with the health problems. So....he had almost no interest in *solving* the health problems. So, most of us here understand your explanation just fine. I'm sorry you need this group - but glad that you found it. It's been a lot of help to a lot of people. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Apr 14, 2017 16:14:29 GMT -5
Hi merrygoround I feel like I know you. I'm sorry, but, you're way too nice for your own good. He needs to get checked out physically. I bet his testosterone is super low. My H refuses to get checked - he's also days from being "left". If you want to stay in the marriage, and, there are plenty of pluses in the "positives" column, then, TELL HIM you're going to leave him unless he gets his sh*t together. Very very few sexless marriages turnaround. Give him the opportunity to fix it, if you want to. Otherwise, start planning your exit - life is short. Well said. "Life is short" - absolutely. Yesterday is finished, tomorrow but a dream, we only got TODAY. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Apr 14, 2017 16:21:02 GMT -5
Thank you eternaloptimism. No he sure as hell doesn't make things easier. For example every so often - perhaps five or six months, i will bring up the sexless topic. It's extremely hard-going to psyche myself up for it in the first place and then knowing yet again how it will go, the excess talking, the fall out. I am left emotionally drained by the whole thing. Then I'm left thinking it's me, why can't i be happy with the way things are - looks good on paper, good people, great kids, nice home etc. Beat myself up psychologically again and again - then back to the treadmill. Oh Yes indeed. Looks good on paper. You should see our Happy Family Photos - they could be used for Disney World covers . . . but inside me - oh - the couple was NON-EXISTENT - Intimacy long gone. Frankly, I refuse to be nominated for an "Academy Award" for Best Actor in my Private Life. So as painful as it was (and less painful than things staying "as is"), I got RUTHLESSLY HONEST . . . with myself. My "Comfort Zone" just became entirely unbearable. Family is important but the HEART of the family is a happy healthy LOVING couple - Not Room Mates. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 15, 2017 4:19:17 GMT -5
HI MGR Your head must be completely overloaded by now! Everyone has been willing to dive in and offer advice, support and friendship, so you know you will not be alone on this journey. The point is - where to start? I think greatcoastal gave some great advice when he talked about respect for yourself - this is major! The best way you can show yourself respect is to set boundaries in place now. What behavior will you not accept from him anymore? You need to have a standard response ready, rather than trying to figure out what to say in the moment, but it has to be focused on what you will do, after all it's your boundary, e.g., "When you (whatever), I feel completely disrespected and I will not tolerate it any more. If you (whatever) again, then I will (what? What will you do? Leave the room? Go out? Knock over his toy soldiers?....)" This is a clear boundary with a clear consequence. If you start setting these on the 'smaller' things (like, his tone of voice or something), and you *follow through*, you'll be able to do it for the more important stuff that is going to come. He's a controller. You NEED to have boundaries. Yes, this i definitely need to work on. Instead of coming from a typically very emotional place and blindsided by questions out of the blue where i get tongue tied. I hate confrontation, i really do. |
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 15, 2017 4:27:54 GMT -5
No, you are explaining things just fine. My refuser had me at the point where I felt like I was wrong no matter what I did. If I tried being nice and not bugging him about it, then he would ask me to tell him what was bothering me. So I would - but if I talked about it too often, I was nagging or making a big deal out of something that "wasn't that important." [/quote] Totally this, SmartKat. I had this last night. Obviously there is a psychological impact when one opens up and by coming on here and sharing, i had a lot of food for thought. So, as a consequence, i was not my usual bubbly self  This gets noted and continually asked about. Sometimes to my detriment, i just want to avoid going over the same thing again and again. He's not particularly well at the moment - plus family member very ill in hospital. More excuses, i know. There is always something. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Apr 15, 2017 4:40:51 GMT -5
No, you are explaining things just fine. My refuser had me at the point where I felt like I was wrong no matter what I did. If I tried being nice and not bugging him about it, then he would ask me to tell him what was bothering me. So I would - but if I talked about it too often, I was nagging or making a big deal out of something that "wasn't that important." Totally this, SmartKat. I had this last night. Obviously there is a psychological impact when one opens up and by coming on here and sharing, i had a lot of food for thought. So, as a consequence, i was not my usual bubbly self This gets noted and continually asked about. Sometimes to my detriment, i just want to avoid going over the same thing again and again. He's not particularly well at the moment - plus family member very ill in hospital. More excuses, i know. There is always something.[/quote] FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Anonymous: "Nothing changes if nothing changes" Fairy Tale Definition = Cinderella waits and hopes for the Fairy Godmother to show up and save her. She does nothing, just remains passive and magically Cinderalla gets saved by her Fairy Godmother. At least Pinochio had to prove his worth to become a real boy - more respect to the Fairy Godmother in that story. Poor Richard "The Lord helps those that help themselves" Shakespearre (who stole it from Socrates) "To Thine ownself be True" |
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Post by petrushka on Apr 15, 2017 6:47:40 GMT -5
merrygoround I've jumped here straight from page 1 ... so I've missed what's on pages 2,3,4. Your original introductory post already ticks a number of boxes for me, and so do some of your further replies on that page. That lingerie incident: 1 he's a prude. 2 he has no empathy or he would've found a more tactful way of expressing that lingerie does not ring his bell. The fuck-like-rabbits reset sex. Yeah, we know all about that. 2 weeks, going on 2 months at most ... A *sane* person, after a hiatus in the relationship, would ease back into things after a good heart to heart. Rekindle intimacy. But - as you have to bite your tongue quite often (your words) I dare say that the level of trust and intimacy is pretty low anyway!?! And this is where the Big Red Flag goes up: his controlling behaviour, sniffing around after your internet usage, phone usage and that has me thinking: I bet he tries to suppress all outside social contacts as well as he can, isolate you. Right? The way he drowns you in words also speaks of a dysfunctional controller. Look up 'gaslighting relationship'. I don't know if he does it or not, but from the context I assume it's very likely. The 'drowning in words' is one way of doing just that. Revising what just happened, turning the victim into the 'person at fault', or 'person with a sanity problem'. Under the circumstances I reassess my thinking about his sexuality: I expect he cannot enjoy sex because to enjoy sex you kind of have to give up control, give yourself over to your feelings. And some people are just too rigid, too neurotic to be able to do that - be it a defense mechanism or aggressively controlling behavior, that makes no difference in this context. I doubt he will mend his ways. That would mean giving up control, and that's his nemesis. There's no way he will admit to what he's doing; never mind how conscious he is of his behavior. You will not get anything, ANYTHING from him other than what he sees fit to give to you to have you compliant, looking the way he wants you to look and doing for him what he wants you to do. Anything YOU want for YOUR pleasure is probably an irritant to him ... so if he gives a rat's arse, it's probably only in a negative way. Quoting my mother, a solipsistic controller: "I know better what you want than you do, I am your MOTHER". Yupp, yupp. Any time I had ideas or wanted something that didn't co-incide with what she wanted or thought, my mind was being corrupted, be it by my friends or be it space aliens. She was constitutionally incapable of seeing that I was a person in my own right. That's something you have to face with extreme controllers. They see you as an accessory or possession, not as a person.
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 15, 2017 10:41:20 GMT -5
Petrushka - thank you for this reply. I feel kind of dizzy at the moment - not just from the overwhelming support from the people here, but all the information, the totally "getting" where i am coming from.
It gets to the stage, i think, where one knows how wrong things are - but one continues with , i suppose, reasons of why not to rock the boat too much. However valid those reasons might be - kids, financial situation etc etc
It's only putting it out there in this place that you see not only how wrong things are, but how conditioned you had become to it - pushing your true feelings and personality down whilst the dominant or controlling partner takes over.
Maybe naively i thought that lingerie might spark his interest - i was in my mid twenties at the time, he in his early 40s. He said he loved the classic look, stockings etc. Not tarty, but sensual. When you want to spark things off in the early stages - or just whenever - you notice things your partner says they like. Yet it is such a slap in the face when it is rejected. Believe me, over the years i would have tried anything - and that's not including something i would actually like for myself or be open to trying! Isnt it supposed to be fun too? But no, sex as rare as it was, on his terms only.
I play online Scrabble - i have with a few people for a number of years now and become friends with them over time. We may make little comments in the chat section about our day or the game. Last night i was doing just that, and he was glancing over my shoulder, obviously seeing i was texting here and there during my games - immediately "who is that?" "Is everything all right?". Pretty innocuous stuff in its own right - however this is within a few days of him being off, my shutting down and pulling back slightly as a reaction. Now it is constant questions from him "what's going on?", "Are you ok?", "Are WE ok?" - the most hated question of all in my book. And the scrutinising of my face, intently staring at it to see my reactions. Makes me want to run.
Now for me, my mask is slipping. Sure i can keep myself distracted with other things, keep busy - i can keep busy until the cows come home. But i know thats only hiding those core feelings. I dread the question of "do you still love me?". Yes, as a family member, the father of my children. But it hurts so much to admit that being in love has died. I cry for it and i don't want to hurt him - but i detest myself for lying.
We talk about priorities - i spoke to him recently about this, about us slipping down the totem pole of priorities. An exhausting conversation, the atmosphere dragged on for a few days. Today he says "what is it with priorities? I'm here, i choose to be here everyday for all of us". Well yes, we are grateful that you are a loving, supportive father, a good provider - but that wasn't the point of the conversation in the first place. It was about us - can we resuscitate that dead duck in the water, without it resorting to who does what in the family? No. It's fogging the core issue again. Smoke and mirrors and lots of empty promises of working things out, pointless conversations.
Another ramble on my part - again! Just needing to vent a little today. I feel sick, i feel sad, i feel angry.
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Post by unmatched on Apr 15, 2017 22:35:31 GMT -5
It sounds like he is terrified. He knows you are not happy, he knows you are not fulfilled, he knows you are not living the life you want to live, and he knows you are going to fall out of love with him (to whatever extent you haven't already). But he probably doesn't want to admit that to himself, and he certainly won't want to admit that he is a major cause of your lack of fulfilment. So he is constantly on the lookout for signs that you are slipping away or that he is losing you. And as soon as he sees any of those signs or you admit to feeling any distance he will jump on that feeling and try to squash it until it goes away. In the end he is going to squeeze your relationship to death. What's left of it anyway.
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Post by merrygoround on Apr 16, 2017 5:50:30 GMT -5
Unmatched - agreed and beautifully demonstrated by this morning.
Last night i was busy working on something and he came into the room, obviously wanting to talk about the past few days. It led to a very intense conversation - with me being very upset. I found myself explaining the simplest of points about seven times - i couldn't have used clearer or simpler language. He kept repeating he didn't understand, why was I dragging up the past after our last talk (fairly recently) when he said we should draw a line under everything and try (yet) again. My point was that i see it slipping back into the old routines (not that it got much better anyway) and i am extremely wary of it as it repeats itself time and time again. Of course I'm wary, there is only so much fuel in the vehicle and i cant run on fumes very far. What could have been easily understood - and he is a very intelligent man - became something that by his actions, in my mind he completely understood yet talked to death again, skirted around the issue and bombarded me with words.
Bear in mind, he initiated this conversation.
At the end of it, he said perhaps if i had approached it another way - saying "if you said baby, I'm concerned that with everything that's going on, we will fall back again" he would have taken it better. My words were not disrespectful. I was clear in what i was saying and they were said carefully, no nasty or spiky terms/comments. At this point i was in tears with the frustration of it all. Why did he not want to understand the simplest of points said so clearly? He could - he made out he didn't.
He wanted a hug this morning. I'm a very affectionate individual - i was cleaning up the kitchen at the time. Again he looked intently into my face - "can i have a hug please?". I had to stop what i was doing and hug. He then pulled away and said thank you.
I cannot switch off after being drowned out verbally. I just can't flick a switch and be "normal" again.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 16, 2017 6:44:05 GMT -5
He's a master manipulator alright. My stbx rarely agrees with me unless it's highly in her favor. Even then she will change 5% of it to be her idea. I find myself listening to her conversations with the children, her dad and others. I learn a lot. One of her favorite approaches when cornered is to quickly say "whatever" and go back to her way. I used to also hear,"that's not my problem" or "that's not my concern", or" you have said so much I don't know where to start", or " I don't know what to tell you!" The day I took control, and she confronted me having authority, I used all 4 of those phrases right back at her. She turned and got very demanding and aggressive physically. Quite a double standard.
Another is "you interrupted me." This happened at the table last night. She spoke and said,"now that I can speak, since I was interrupted earlier". We all looked around the table at each other, thinking,"when, where, how? no one interrupted you!". My FIL pulled that on me the other day. After informing him of being an intruder in things he has no business in, he said you interrupted me the last time I was talking with our neighbor. I had to say, "what are you talking about?" (this was like two months ago!) He said " you said to "C" "I would like to talk with you privately when your done" I said, "that's it! that's all you got?". I later remembered how long I politely stood there waiting for him to shut up so I could tell our neighbor I needed to ask her something. I finally just tapped her on the arm, asked about speaking to her later and no longer had to stand there so long.
The last time my wife said, " you interrupted me".I said, "that's right, get used to it, what I have to say needs to be heard, without your spin and manipulation". She hated that. Of course it's all my fault, again. "I'm just an angry person, who should just be avoided. I can't communicate, and compromise".
Typical Bullshit of a controller.
He wanted a hug. You understand what he's doing don't you? Another useless ,fake symbol, a gesture, a crumb on your plate. Think about it. He doesn't even hug you, he makes you hug him! While you are doing acts of service for the whole family. Does he start helping with the cleaning? Of course not. We've talked on here about the good bye hug or peck of a kiss symbol before. Once I detached myself from my spouse (like she claims she has done for years) the next time she gave me a goodbye peck in front of the children, I turned my face away, and gave her my cheek. That happened twice. She automatically stopped completely. That confirmed, it had no meaning, it was just more manipulation to get her way.
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Post by Dan on Apr 16, 2017 11:28:11 GMT -5
I've been reading regularly here for a good few months now I have been scared to join as he always wants to know what i am up to online - i have no social media and keep in contact with friends via email or chat - Facebook was a nightmare as he would always comment negatively on something somebody would post. It's only the last few years i have had my own email account. He calls it having transparency. Any time my phone goes, he wants details. I tell him all the time, check yourself any time. I had nothing to hide. The kids certainly pick up my phone enough. I can't do much more time like this. Again, sorry for going on too long. I agree with everything said so far; let me comment on the few things I highlighted above. First: WELCOME. You will find friends and comfort here. And: your post was NOT too long... don't apologize! (As lyn said, perhaps you are just a bit too polite...) The spying on your phone REALLY UPSETS ME. This is the type of control that a parent needs on a young teenager who has their first smartphone and is just learning to use social media. Or an older teen who has messed up and gotten involved in drugs or something. IT IS NOT THE WAY LOVING SPOUSES TREAT EACH OTHER. If you have to draw ONE line as a test case for speaking up for yourself, and you don't think you can make progress with reconciling your intimacy as your first step, then make it this one: my phone is private. My conversations with my friends is private. Who my friends are is private. If you want me to share with you: be nicer to me. Share a bit of you. Show me I can trust you to be the "real me" with you... because now, you have made that impossible. I have conformed enough to you already. I stop here. If he can't respect that... I mean, really, what hope is there for reconciling the MUCH more private and personal aspects of physical and emotional intimacy? As for "going on much more time like this": don 't. You have to get back to YOU. You have to save yourself. We are here to throw you a line, and lifering, whatever we've got. Grab it... and start to rescue yourself before you drown. |
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Post by dinnaken on Apr 16, 2017 15:54:00 GMT -5
Hi Merrygoround,
I'm late to this thread, I'm just back after two days away.
You strike me as a wonderful, decent, human being. I'm very sorry that you find yourself here.
As others have said, your husband is a controller; it's a distressingly common characteristic (my wife is a controller) but not one that you have ANY responsibility for redressing. You are responsible for your behaviour and he is SOLELY responsible for his - not you, not even a little bit.
I don't know where I came across it but I found an article saying that if you are going to find yourself in an unhappy marriage then chances are you have the 3Ns - Nice, Naive and Non-confrontational.
I had the set - what about you?
I would not / could not do anything about the first two and struggled with the latter. Like you I didn't like rocking the boat and didn't, right up to the point where I stood up, stepped over the side and started swimming for the unknown shore. I'm almost there, struggling in the surf but almost there.
Whatever you choose to do you'll find many, many supportive friends here.
All the best
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This gets noted and continually asked about. Sometimes to my detriment, i just want to avoid going over the same thing again and again. 
