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Post by sunniedays on Feb 15, 2017 18:32:08 GMT -5
Your definition of your wife's behavior is very unflattering and is obviously not something a loving partner should do. If you believe "fucking a dead fish" is an accurate analogy, why don't you simply have sex with her, and then inform her of that exactly? "Honey, that was exactly like fucking a dead fish. By the way, I do love you. Good night." I am the one who used the analogy and I stand by it. I have been abused by this woman for years. She has abused me emotionally, verbally, physically and sexually. She has told me that nothing she says or does is wrong unless she believes it is wrong. The only reason she stopped punching me in the face is because I told her although I will not hit her back, she will go to jail if she does it again. She has maligned and defamed me to almost all of our friends, our children, and our family. Thankfully, she has not been believed by most of them. I have been separated for almost a year, and the divorce has been filed. So you can continue to bash those of us who have been abused by refusers, but I will be responding to every one of your future posts with a different recipe. I was responding to COMPLETELY BAKED'S post. "Exactly, bballgirl. I do love my wife and would never refer to her as a dead fish or any other derogatory term. However, our once frequent, passionate love making has evolved to this: (her) "Really? It's been 6 months? OK. Get the lube and hurry up." (as she lays there). I think "fucking a dead fish" is a pretty accurate analogy." But feel free to share your recipes. |
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Post by sunniedays on Feb 15, 2017 18:36:12 GMT -5
sunniedays If I may ask - Why are you on this forum? Are you in a Sexless Marriage? or a psych grad student or something? Yes, I am in a sexless marriage. Not a psych grad student or something. I started reading a while back when my husband and I started counseling to gather more information from others' perspective. Is that allowed? |
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Post by sunniedays on Feb 15, 2017 18:45:19 GMT -5
If there's a wife who can forgive and forget being referred to as that, she's a bigger man than I. Being a bigger person than you is no accomplishment. By the way... Directions Dressing: In a medium-size bowl or measuring cup, whisk together the vinegar, mustard, salt and pepper. While whisking, add oil in a thin stream until blended. Set aside. Salad: Heat a medium-size pot of water to boiling. Add green beans and cook 4 minutes or until crisp-tender. Drain and rinse with cold water. Tear basil into bite-size pieces. In a large bowl, toss basil, green beans, tomatoes, mozzarella, and the kidney and white beans. Whisk dressing, then drizzle over salad. Toss gently to coat and serve. Thank you so much. That's delightful and quite mature. I guess we're not going to be polite to each other. You, also, are a wonderful spouse. Perhaps your wife is calling you horrible names behind your back... because it's okay, because you're not treating her the way she thinks she should be treated. After all, calling our loved ones names is the adult, loving, way to behave. I mean, whenever anyone does anything unkind, we should respond by referring to them in a completely rude, unflattering manner. Because that makes the bad situation SOOOO much better. Good luck with that. And the recipes are always appreciated!!  |
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Post by sunniedays on Feb 15, 2017 18:53:05 GMT -5
It's still disrespectful. In my opinion, if you seriously refer to your sex life with your wife as fucking a dead fish it only serves to magnify the lack of character of the person stating such a thing. Who is the villain? The person who willfully treats their partner in an unkind manner; or the mistreated partner, who publicly, verbally disparages the partner who they, themselves, have chosen?Then to proffer the excuse that they can't possibly end the relationship with the "dead fish" because of the children, finances -- whatever, is disingenuous. Either stay and don't complain or leave. Otherwise who looks like the idiot; the person who doles out the infrequent "dead fish fucking" or the person who stays with the person who doles out the infrequent "dead fish fucking"? I liked this post, not because I agree with everything Sunny is saying but I do agree that choosing to stay for whatever reason and then complaining about it is disingenuous. People should own their choices and not blame others for falling short when they know that's the way it is and choose to stay anyway. In any case, a dose of disrespect would probably do his wife some good. Perhaps. Seems to me that the person who doesn't lower themselves to someone else's bad behavior is the "winner" of the situation. I mean, I fully understand how people become so hurt and frustrated when someone who is supposed to treat them kinder than anyone else, doesn't. The disrespect they feel is probably mostly due to the fact that they have chosen to stay for so long in a hurtful relationship. |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 15, 2017 18:53:19 GMT -5
With the upmost respect sunniedays I would like to respond. Here's the thing it may seem disrespectful but when the members of this forum write about their spouse on this anonymous forum it's a vent, it's an outlet, it's a means of coping with a situation that is very sad to say the least. I can assure you that nobody on this forum is a villain. In fact everyone that I have messaged with are some of the kindest people I have ever conversed with. Not only are they kind, they are unselfish and self sacrificing. Sacrificing their own happiness in hopes that their spouse will change so yeah they keep fucking the dead fish hoping maybe the next time will be better and every once in a while it is and what does that lead to? More false hope. I do somewhat agree with you anout the stay or go scenario, BUT there is no cookie cutter solution for everyone or else this place would not exist. Everyone's reason for staying is a valid reason be it finances, kids, they still love their spouse, fear of the unknown, etc. Here's what I do know this is an outlet and a way to vent and the people here trust me they treat their spouses very well in real life and have for many years, decades even. It's a tough situation to love someone so much and want to make love to them and express that love. It's frustrating and confusing to not understand why they don't want to do that with you. I'm an extremely empathetic person for the way someone else feels and I try to put myself in their shoes. I had dealt with a SM for 23 years and finally I set myself free. I'm friends with my ex now and sex with him sucked, I say that with no disrespect to him it's just the truth. We were not compatible. However I now know it wasn't me thanks to EP and forums like this. Thank you for replying respectfully. I appreciate it, and I do appreciate your struggle in your marriage. I agree with most of what you post. Yes, people are unhappy. Yes, they vent. Yes, there is no cookie-cutter solution. Yes, I agree, some people might continue to try to have sex with a spouse in an attempt to salvage or "save" a marriage. But to "keep fucking a dead fish" -- really? You'd willingly stay in a relationship -- try to SAVE a relationship in which you describe sex as "fucking a dead fish"? Can that marriage REALLY be saved? If someone thinks having sex with their spouse is like fucking a dead fish, truly, honestly refers to their spouse -- I mean, look, I understand it's a description of "uneventful unenthusiastic sex". I get it. But come on. It's so disrespectful. And to say it out loud? Even to strangers on the internet? If it is just a harmless benign description, why not just go tell your wife that's how you refer to her as? Tell it to her face. See if that helps your relationship in any beneficial fashion. You know, there's a bounty of sad situations in life. Does being in a sad situation give a person carte blanche to treat another person unkindly? I do have empathy for those in an unhappy relationship. And I can accept that it is difficult to leave for whatever reason. But to find yourself a website where you can rant and disparage your partner is hardly a solution. Yes, to find others in a similar situation, where one can bounce ideas or problems off others in like relationships, I'm sure, is helpful for each individual's state of mind. But I would suggest that to rant endlessly about your own choices, and to include disrespectful terminology when referring to your own choices hardly seems productive. Seems like it would be quite difficult for a person to refer to their partners in disrespectful and unkind terms in print to "anonymous friends," and then be able to turn around and treat their partner respectfully in person. I don't know. Maybe they can. I do believe I am able to understand how difficult it must be to love someone and to feel that the person doesn't reciprocate your feelings in a way one might want. I have thought about how painful it would be to be in that person's shoes; however, it doesn't seem the right solution to throw around unkind terms and resort to name calling, especially of a person you claim to love. It just can't be helpful. As far as reasons for staying -- while I understand people say they have their reasons, I do find it rather unbelievable for someone to say they are staying because they still love their spouse, yet turn around and refer to them as "fucking a dead fish." WHO says that? Jesus. If your relationship is shitty and undesirable, leave. It's immature and unattractive for someone to describe a person whom they presumably loved at one point, who they created children with, so disrespectfully. You might think it. It might be absolutely true. Keep it to yourself, in my opinion. If a spouse treats you so terribly, so unkind, is such a horrible specimen of a human being, WHY --- WHY would you want to stay and try to make them love you? WHY would ANYONE strive to have a terrible, unkind, horrible, dead-fish fucking person love them? Perhaps the person believes they can CHANGE their unkind spouse. It's possible, with the right people, in the right situation. Probably have to recant that "dead-fish fucking" comment. If there's a wife who can forgive and forget being referred to as that, she's a bigger man than I. wrote "so terribly, so unkind, is such a horrible specimen of a human being, WHY --- WHY would you want to stay and try to make them love you?" I do know the answer to that "why"- it's because we love them, more then we love ourselves and that's where the problem lies. There is no man I will love more than myself ever again. My children - with all my heart as big as the world. Btw, I could remember writing on EP that if my H were on fire I wouldn't piss on him. That was the anger talking and it might have been disrespectful but I needed the vent. I'm divorced a year now and I don't feel that way anymore I would definitely piss on him now lol, I've healed more or less from the anger. Anyway my point is the words are a product of emotion and this forum is an outlet and we as support need to respect each other's vents. |
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Post by richfairy72 on Feb 15, 2017 18:58:26 GMT -5
I don't want to get drawn into an argument here, but can I just say that the OP has said he has been in an abusive marriage. Having a go at someone in that situation is not helpful ' why don't you just leave?' If it were that simple then abusive relationships wouldn't continue. That's the whole point, an abused person feels powerless to just leave, otherwise they would. They can even love their abusers, as their thinking becomes clouded. As much as onlookers find it frustrating, these people 'whinging' may not have the power or opportunity to leave, hence feeling trapped and upset.
Just pointing that out.....
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Post by sunniedays on Feb 15, 2017 18:58:29 GMT -5
Learn something new every day I googled it. Got it. LMAO. Sooooooo..... anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is a troll. I see. Okay. Carry on with your complaining and whining, while avoiding being introspective. Mature. |
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Post by sunniedays on Feb 15, 2017 19:07:29 GMT -5
Thank you for replying respectfully. I appreciate it, and I do appreciate your struggle in your marriage. I agree with most of what you post. Yes, people are unhappy. Yes, they vent. Yes, there is no cookie-cutter solution. Yes, I agree, some people might continue to try to have sex with a spouse in an attempt to salvage or "save" a marriage. But to "keep fucking a dead fish" -- really? You'd willingly stay in a relationship -- try to SAVE a relationship in which you describe sex as "fucking a dead fish"? Can that marriage REALLY be saved? If someone thinks having sex with their spouse is like fucking a dead fish, truly, honestly refers to their spouse -- I mean, look, I understand it's a description of "uneventful unenthusiastic sex". I get it. But come on. It's so disrespectful. And to say it out loud? Even to strangers on the internet? If it is just a harmless benign description, why not just go tell your wife that's how you refer to her as? Tell it to her face. See if that helps your relationship in any beneficial fashion. You know, there's a bounty of sad situations in life. Does being in a sad situation give a person carte blanche to treat another person unkindly? I do have empathy for those in an unhappy relationship. And I can accept that it is difficult to leave for whatever reason. But to find yourself a website where you can rant and disparage your partner is hardly a solution. Yes, to find others in a similar situation, where one can bounce ideas or problems off others in like relationships, I'm sure, is helpful for each individual's state of mind. But I would suggest that to rant endlessly about your own choices, and to include disrespectful terminology when referring to your own choices hardly seems productive. Seems like it would be quite difficult for a person to refer to their partners in disrespectful and unkind terms in print to "anonymous friends," and then be able to turn around and treat their partner respectfully in person. I don't know. Maybe they can. I do believe I am able to understand how difficult it must be to love someone and to feel that the person doesn't reciprocate your feelings in a way one might want. I have thought about how painful it would be to be in that person's shoes; however, it doesn't seem the right solution to throw around unkind terms and resort to name calling, especially of a person you claim to love. It just can't be helpful. As far as reasons for staying -- while I understand people say they have their reasons, I do find it rather unbelievable for someone to say they are staying because they still love their spouse, yet turn around and refer to them as "fucking a dead fish." WHO says that? Jesus. If your relationship is shitty and undesirable, leave. It's immature and unattractive for someone to describe a person whom they presumably loved at one point, who they created children with, so disrespectfully. You might think it. It might be absolutely true. Keep it to yourself, in my opinion. If a spouse treats you so terribly, so unkind, is such a horrible specimen of a human being, WHY --- WHY would you want to stay and try to make them love you? WHY would ANYONE strive to have a terrible, unkind, horrible, dead-fish fucking person love them? Perhaps the person believes they can CHANGE their unkind spouse. It's possible, with the right people, in the right situation. Probably have to recant that "dead-fish fucking" comment. If there's a wife who can forgive and forget being referred to as that, she's a bigger man than I. wrote "so terribly, so unkind, is such a horrible specimen of a human being, WHY --- WHY would you want to stay and try to make them love you?" I do know the answer to that "why"- it's because we love them, more then we love ourselves and that's where the problem lies. There is no man I will love more than myself ever again. My children - with all my heart as big as the world. Btw, I could remember writing on EP that if my H were on fire I wouldn't piss on him. That was the anger talking and it might have been disrespectful but I needed the vent. I'm divorced a year now and I don't feel that way anymore I would definitely piss on him now lol, I've healed more or less from the anger. Anyway my point is the words are a product of emotion and this forum is an outlet and we as support need to respect each other's vents. Hopefully you won't have to do any pissing! I understand your point of view. I guess maybe I've never hated anyone so much where I felt the need to be disrespectful -- especially to someone who I loved. I can't imagine it. I would be devastated if I knew my partner/spouse had said something so mean. Not about pissing on him if he was on fire. I mean, that's almost just -- I don't know. Frustration. You're not really disrespecting him by calling him a name. But to explain why you want to stay with a horrible person is because you love them -- they're horrible; right? It's hard for me to understand that logic. I'm not saying you didn't feel it, I'm just saying it's hard for me. Thank you for trying to explain your experience. |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 15, 2017 19:14:00 GMT -5
sunniedays wrote "so terribly, so unkind, is such a horrible specimen of a human being, WHY --- WHY would you want to stay and try to make them love you?" I do know the answer to that "why"- it's because we love them, more then we love ourselves and that's where the problem lies. There is no man I will love more than myself ever again. My children - with all my heart as big as the world. Btw, I could remember writing on EP that if my H were on fire I wouldn't piss on him. That was the anger talking and it might have been disrespectful but I needed the vent. I'm divorced a year now and I don't feel that way anymore I would definitely piss on him now lol, I've healed more or less from the anger. Anyway my point is the words are a product of emotion and this forum is an outlet and we as support need to respect each other's vents. Hopefully you won't have to do any pissing! I understand your point of view. I guess maybe I've never hated anyone so much where I felt the need to be disrespectful -- especially to someone who I loved. I can't imagine it. I would be devastated if I knew my partner/spouse had said something so mean. Not about pissing on him if he was on fire. I mean, that's almost just -- I don't know. Frustration. You're not really disrespecting him by calling him a name. But to explain why you want to stay with a horrible person is because you love them -- they're horrible; right? It's hard for me to understand that logic. I'm not saying you didn't feel it, I'm just saying it's hard for me. Thank you for trying to explain your experience. Ok let me clarify - I loved him for 20 years and I tried to get him to want me instead of the porn on that computer. The last 3 I didn't love him much and the last year or two was when all the anger came out because I saw it for what it really was. I was stuck though for many years, as a teacher I didn't make enough to support myself and my kids on one income. We didn't get raises for 7 years but then we did and it was a good raise so I freed myself and I'm not celibate anymore. People that enjoy sex want it. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Feb 15, 2017 22:19:55 GMT -5
Learn something new every day I googled it. Got it. LMAO. Sooooooo..... anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is a troll. I see. Okay. Carry on with your complaining and whining, while avoiding being introspective. Mature. No. Anyone who drops inflammatory remarks into a thread for no good reason is a troll. Which reminds me of a little song
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Post by eternaloptimism on Feb 16, 2017 1:44:46 GMT -5
sunniedays has a tendency to leave her sense of humour behind if we refer to our sexless partners as anything she doesn't like Mc Roomy. She doesn't like "refuser" in particular. I agree. I do leave my sense of humor behind when a grown adult male refers to the woman he chose as his wife as "fucking a dead fish." Not to just one or two close confidants, but to millions of random people. I guess I was raised to treat others in a respectful manner, regardless of the disrespectful way they may be behaving. In my opinion, it only emphasizes a person's short-comings and maturity level. As to not liking "refuser" in particular, feel free to continue to refer to the partners you chose in derogatory manners; your partners will continue to refer to you in derogatory manners; stay together for decades in your miserable relationships as you continue to call each other names, without standing up for yourselves, all the while continuing to complain about how horrible they are on a website. I do wonder sunniedays if the reason you come here and bollock us all for speaking our truths is that you desperately want your husband NOT to be saying these things about you. You have thoroughly convinced yourself that he holds you in high regard and would never say such things about you and your low libido. I'd love to hear his side. |
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 16, 2017 6:22:08 GMT -5
sunniedays If I may ask - Why are you on this forum? Are you in a Sexless Marriage? or a psych grad student or something? Yes, I am in a sexless marriage. Not a psych grad student or something. I started reading a while back when my husband and I started counseling to gather more information from others' perspective. Is that allowed? I reread your thread and you definitely qualify to be a member here. Nothing to cheer about though. As a LD member here, maybe the only one, please stay. If the term ...fucking a dead fish....bothers you, then it bothers you. I can handle that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 10:14:42 GMT -5
sunniedays If I may ask - Why are you on this forum? Are you in a Sexless Marriage? or a psych grad student or something? Yes, I am in a sexless marriage. Not a psych grad student or something. I started reading a while back when my husband and I started counseling to gather more information from others' perspective. Is that allowed? After reading your previous posts, I really feel sad for you. Many of your posts talk about how you have no desire for sex, and sometimes you seem to say that you would like to have the desire, but other times, you say that it is "normal" for you. I can see how reading the refused thoughts would be painful for you to hear. My guess is that down deep inside, you wonder if your husband feels the same way. I have no idea if he does or doesn't. However, I suspect that he does. I am very sorry for your bout with cancer, and I hope you remain cancer-free. Going through menopause prematurely is certainly a problem for anyone. I assume this does mean that you have no estrogen, progesterone, or testosterone at all. With none of these hormones, of course you would have no sex drive. However, there are some other effects that I think you are experiencing. For instance, when I responded to your post, I enumerated multiple ways that my wife has abused me. You completely ignored all of them and began accusing me of having no empathy. However, the fact that you ignored everything that I said screams a lack of empathy. Hormone deficiency is a common cause of this. Additionally, you have stated that you do not find many sexual experiences to be intimate at all. For instance, "But giving your partner a hand job or oral sex isn't intimate or bonding. It's raw, down and dirty sex. It's basically having an "urge" relieved." There are many women and men who find both of these experiences extremely intimate and bonding. I certainly do! And I find your characterization of any kind of sex as "down and dirty" a bit offensive. There are many people who cannot have vaginal sex, but still lovingly offer this kind of intimacy. Remember, you are on a site which is primarily populated by people who have begged, pleaded, and done everything possible to get their spouses to make love to them. Some of us have been labeled with much more hateful labels than "dead fish." We have been called perverts, sluts, rapists, and every demeaning name you can thing of. When you say something like "It's just sex," that is just as painful to us as when someone says to you, "Just do it!" Many of us have been refused for years, while being told that we are freaks because we would like to have sex in marriage. So we have finally found a place where we can discuss our situation without being judged, we have to hear from you that we are being too "harsh" towards our refusers. I would like to give you a suggestion. Instead of admonishing a person here who is expressing frustration about being refused the most basic part of marriage, why don't you try to respond with empathy. Acknowledge the feeling behind what is expressed, instead of criticizing him/her. Try to realize that just because you can live without ever having sex again, that may not be true of everyone. Lastly, if you really want to save your marriage, why don't you check out this site www.biotemedical.com/There are many men and women who have greatly benefitted from this treatment. Maybe there is a provider in your area, and you can speak to a doctor about it. You may be able to make your marriage better. |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 16, 2017 10:38:52 GMT -5
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Post by sunniedays on Feb 16, 2017 10:52:25 GMT -5
I agree. I do leave my sense of humor behind when a grown adult male refers to the woman he chose as his wife as "fucking a dead fish." Not to just one or two close confidants, but to millions of random people. I guess I was raised to treat others in a respectful manner, regardless of the disrespectful way they may be behaving. In my opinion, it only emphasizes a person's short-comings and maturity level. As to not liking "refuser" in particular, feel free to continue to refer to the partners you chose in derogatory manners; your partners will continue to refer to you in derogatory manners; stay together for decades in your miserable relationships as you continue to call each other names, without standing up for yourselves, all the while continuing to complain about how horrible they are on a website. I do wonder sunniedays if the reason you come here and bollock us all for speaking our truths is that you desperately want your husband NOT to be saying these things about you. You have thoroughly convinced yourself that he holds you in high regard and would never say such things about you and your low libido. I'd love to hear his side. Continue to speak (whine, complain, cry, disrespect) your truths here, while doing nothing constructive to right your own situation. That's what 50% of the posts on this site appear to be. By the way, my husband does respect me. I know he does. We counseled for two years, working around our situation, looking for mutually agreeable solutions. We openly discussed divorce. I told him that divorce wasn't my solution, but that if he felt that divorce was the only way he could be happy, then I would fully support it; while NEVER uttering a negative or disparaging remark about him to anyone. Of course we've had disagreements and fights in 30 years. Not once has he EVER said anything even slightly disrespectful to me. But if he did, I can guarantee I would be at my attorney's office immediately. Because I won't be treated like that by anyone. And I won't have my children taught that that's the way a person treats someone they "love." Of course I don't have him wired for sound when he's away from me, so I suppose it's possible he has said something rude to a friend/family member. I guess I'll never know that. But it seems to me that IF he was prone to being disrespectful to me outside of my presence that SOME time in 30 years I would have seen evidence of it. "You have thoroughly convinced yourself that he holds you in high regard and would never say such things about you and your low libido." Really? Is that REALLY how you think a marriage should be? If your partner is different than you in any way, you no longer have to hold them in high regard?? That's a super awesome moral to live by. "Honey, you have a lower libido than I do. I no longer hold you in high regard. Every other good quality you have means nothing. It is permissible for me to now hold you in low regard and to speak ill about you." Fantastic. I'm sure our differences have caused him pain, frustration, confusion. Because I've felt the same. But pain, frustration, confusion doesn't give anyone the right to be disrespectful. It just defeats the whole purpose of living your life with a person that you choose to live your life with. If the person you chose does something-anything that makes you so unhappy, that your quality of life with them is so skewed, how is it even slightly helpful to STAY with them, while name-calling and disrespecting them to their face OR on a website?? |
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