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Post by eternaloptimism on Sept 29, 2016 5:54:32 GMT -5
I shouldn't read posts so early in the day with 1 eye open!! X
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Post by cagedtiger on Sept 29, 2016 22:06:49 GMT -5
An update on where we are:
She got back Sunday night, earlier than I'd expected, and of course I was dreading talking about the weekend. I'd had a blast with friends, singing karaoke Friday night, and had another one of those "wow, I'm glad she's not here" nights. When she got back, she told me about the conference, and a grad school program she's interested in, and finally the topic came up:
"so, did you miss me at all while I was gone?"
And I freely admitted that I hadn't, that I'd really enjoyed the weekend to myself, and that I'd actually been looking forward to her being gone. She thanked me for my honest answer, then left to take some time to herself.
She came back quicker than I expected, and asked if I thought we should keep going through the counseling. I said yes, because we'd committed to it, and because I thought she was making some progress. I then explained to her that with where I am right now, it feels more like we're roommates, but friendly roommates, than anything else. She seemed to accept that for the time being.
We took the dogs for dinner, and talked about work, house projects, everything that wouldn't lead to her crying more. We're talking again on friendly terms, but I still feel absolutely nothing romantic or sexual towards her. We talked about this, and she told me,
"I understand why you're so guarded, and I feel really terrible now knowing that I'm the cause of this. I'm sorry."
So, words are nice to hear, but actions would be even better.
At counseling last week, she let on that she still feels anxious about some activities or things I want to do, and that there are some other lingering things with anxiety. Our counselor gently suggested that she should consider seeing somebody about that (remember our earlier agreement that she would be the one to make those recommendations to either one of us?), and my wife said she'd consider that. She thanked me this past week for not gloating about that when it came up, but I pointed out that it would have the opposite reaction if I did.
In counseling today we finally started touching on my hesitations when it comes to trusting in these "changes" being permanent, based on past experience, and about how my wife always pushed me the farthest away when we got into the low parts of the cycles. As we were talking about that, my wife remarked,
"I'm really bad at intimacy, aren't I?"
I confirmed she was. The counselor took note of this and drove the conversation more down that road. My wife finally admitted about always being afraid that she'd lose me, that I'd "snap out of it," and figure out that I deserved better than her, and leave. The counselor pointed out the likely causes of this, and once again gently suggested that she talk to somebody about figuring out where that comes from. Again, my wife said she'd think about it.
When we got out of the session, I asked her if she was going to think about seeing somebody, and she told me that she really wanted to go back to her previous therapist (the overpriced lady at the "house of healing" place on the far side of the next county over), but didn't want to pay $130+ a session. I pointed out that finding somebody different could actually work better in her favor, and she seemed to consider it.
So, the ball is back in her court again.
Before she went to bed a while ago, she texted me:
"Did I tell you that I think I'm suffering from Imposter's Syndrome?"
"No...."
"Yeah, I've felt that way for about a year or more now. I wrote down a note to figure out how to make it better/ work on it."
History has already shown that she's just going to shut down if I push her any harder on seeing a therapist and actually putting in the hard work, but I feel we're rapidly coming to the place where it's going to be up to her.
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Post by baza on Sept 29, 2016 22:38:19 GMT -5
Her behaviour and her choices have always been up to her Brother ct.
Have been in the past, are now, and will be in the future.
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Same for you. (or me or anyone)
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I think you are "rapidly coming to the place" (if in fact you aren't already there) where it's up to YOU, not her.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Sept 30, 2016 2:19:19 GMT -5
Imposter wife.  x |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 30, 2016 7:57:31 GMT -5
CT - there may not be a way to convey this info to her (and I need to read up on WHT imposter syndrome really is) - but that whole, I'm scared you'll wake up and see that you don't deserve me, so I guard against that my not being authentic about who I am - - - this screams shame. My therapist is "a shame specialist" schooled in the findings of Brene Brown and such-like. She has been VERY helpful (& quite persistent) in helping me release the known shame (the parts I could see) and to identify the unseen shame (the parts I could have sworn were "not shame" but just "normal human inadequacy" stuff) - - anyway, you may or may not "get" the deepness of her fear of inadequacy because most of us raised with shaming techniques cover for it very well (for me, false bravado was my main tool of choice and it pushes people away quite effectively long before they could get close).
I had to see the ineffectiveness (& feel the pain of this process) before I wanted to give it up - and then it has really taken a lot of work even when I became willing to give it up.
Anyway - she may well be "broken" but I don't think it's in the way she thinks she is (or - that was true for me - I was hurt and damaged but in totally different, almost opposite, ways than I had thought).
Our sick minds cannot be the thing that fixes our sick minds. I need outside help to do it. My "best thnking" is what got me where I was and so it would not have been effective to try and heal myself using that brain (so riddled with dysfunction). My shame-specialist therapist has been invaluable in the post-SM journey.
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Post by Dan on Sept 30, 2016 8:00:08 GMT -5
In counseling today we finally started touching on my hesitations when it comes to trusting in these "changes" being permanent, based on past experience, and about how my wife always pushed me the farthest away when we got into the low parts of the cycles. : props to you for working so hard on your marriage, going the extra ten miles for your wife, and being so direct. As you mention: TRUST is the key to progress at this point. With my wife, her main approach to dealing with our sexlessness is arguing "if you'd just understand and agree with all the reasons why my libido is so low, we'd be much happier." Ummm.... yeah. Since this has pretty much been the party line for 24 of our 27 years of marriage, I don't trust that she'll ever come 'round to my notion of a "normal, healthy, active marital sex life". If for some reason she did magically seem to have acquired this drive... I still wouldn't trust it at this point. I would have a severe, nagging hunch that she is "just doing this to perpetuate her comfort, and out of fear of living alone". Since I don't know how I will ever trust her again... I suppose the writing is on the wall. If you can still rebuild this trust: do it. If you can't: you may, alas, be in the same boat. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 1, 2016 9:58:54 GMT -5
In counseling today we finally started touching on my hesitations when it comes to trusting in these "changes" being permanent, based on past experience, and about how my wife always pushed me the farthest away when we got into the low parts of the cycles. : props to you for working so hard on your marriage, going the extra ten miles for your wife, and being so direct. As you mention: TRUST is the key to progress at this point. With my wife, her main approach to dealing with our sexlessness is arguing "if you'd just understand and agree with all the reasons why my libido is so low, we'd be much happier." Ummm.... yeah. Since this has pretty much been the party line for 24 of our 27 years of marriage, I don't trust that she'll ever come 'round to my notion of a "normal, healthy, active marital sex life". If for some reason she did magically seem to have acquired this drive... I still wouldn't trust it at this point. I would have a severe, nagging hunch that she is "just doing this to perpetuate her comfort, and out of fear of living alone". Since I don't know how I will ever trust her again... I suppose the writing is on the wall. If you can still rebuild this trust: do it. If you can't: you may, alas, be in the same boat. Speaking of low libido, we haven't had that discussion yet, and I think that it's going to factor heavily into the questions about compatibility. I don't think she's ever fully realized how high my sex drive has always been out how much I've been left unsatisfied, wanting more, and finishing myself off not too long after the times we did have sex. Again, a big reason for pause of mine about the long-term feasibility of this marriage. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 10, 2016 11:06:09 GMT -5
Last week in couples counseling, our therapist brought up for a third time that my wife might want to consider talking to a specialist about her personal issues. She says she's looking for a therapist, and she knows it's one of my mandatory requirements. So, we'll see.
She was supposed to be at the beach this week with her mom, and I've been looking forward to her being gone for a long while now- except that now I'm looking at no power at home for at least the rest of the week, and she can't leave yet because of closed roads. Fun times.
Next week in our session when she gets back, we get to start talking about my long-term issues with the relationship, so we finally get to dive head-first into the chronic sexlessness and lack of physical connection. I think she has a pretty good idea how uncomfortable it's going to be for her already, even though I'm taking this time to prepare my thoughts in a way that's totally honest, without sounding too bitter.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 10, 2016 11:37:40 GMT -5
Last week in couples counseling, our therapist brought up for a third time that my wife might want to consider talking to a specialist about her personal issues. She says she's looking for a therapist, and she knows it's one of my mandatory requirements. So, we'll see. She was supposed to be at the beach this week with her mom, and I've been looking forward to her being gone for a long while now- except that now I'm looking at no power at home for at least the rest of the week, and she can't leave yet because of closed roads. Fun times. Next week in our session when she gets back, we get to start talking about my long-term issues with the relationship, so we finally get to dive head-first into the chronic sexlessness and lack of physical connection. I think she has a pretty good idea how uncomfortable it's going to be for her already, even though I'm taking this time to prepare my thoughts in a way that's totally honest, without sounding too bitter. I thoroughly enjoyed my three days of house to myself! It just so happens that my STBX has set up her little office on the enclosed porch. Well after three days of no help, cleaning up all our Debris' , helping our neighbors, and cleaning up the rentals, it was time to climb on the roof. The gutters were clogged up solid. Not my fault it's all on the back of the house. Talking, hammering, leaf blowing, raking, all make noise. I discovered some limbs to take down, that have to be reached from the roof top. Accessed from the back porch. She left and went into the office. Did the noise have something to do with it? No communication, who knows? Do I really care? Not much. 24 yrs of never working from home, and now magically one week into the divorce.....ooookaaay. " A way that's totally honest with out sounding to bitter". Their is nothing, nothing, wrong with expressing the disrespect you have received. Which leads to non communication, leading to lack of trust, and zero hope. Plenty to be honestly bitter about. May I suggest you use those words? Disrespect, communication, trust, and hope. let me know if you read about DARVO on shrink4men.com Sounds like you would have numerous examples that fit this, to share with the therapist. Happy healing friend! Glad your safe! |
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Post by Caris on Oct 10, 2016 13:38:45 GMT -5
cagedtiger, I agree with greatcoastal. Feel what you feel that's being honest. If you feel bitter, feel it. A good therapist won't judge you for this. It just shows her what it has done to you. Best wishes.
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 10, 2016 13:42:01 GMT -5
cagedtiger, I agree with greatcoastal. Feel what you feel that's being honest. If you feel bitter, feel it. A good therapist won't judge you for this. It just shows her what it has done to you. Best wishes. Thank you. I'm not worried about what the therapist thinks of me, I'm worried about the wife feeling so under attack she'll either shut down and refuse to acknowledge what I'm saying, or to start attacking back and try and refute it all without listening. |
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Post by Caris on Oct 10, 2016 13:48:27 GMT -5
cagedtiger, I agree with greatcoastal. Feel what you feel that's being honest. If you feel bitter, feel it. A good therapist won't judge you for this. It just shows her what it has done to you. Best wishes. Thank you. I'm not worried about what the therapist thinks of me, I'm worried about the wife feeling so under attack she'll either shut down and refuse to acknowledge what I'm saying, or to start attacking back and try and refute it all without listening. I'm sorry CT, I'm behind the curve with all the back stories. I take it you are still looking for a resolution, and it's all down to what your wife think/wants. Is that it? |
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Post by cagedtiger on Oct 10, 2016 13:52:53 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm not worried about what the therapist thinks of me, I'm worried about the wife feeling so under attack she'll either shut down and refuse to acknowledge what I'm saying, or to start attacking back and try and refute it all without listening. I'm sorry CT, I'm behind the curve with all the back stories. I take it you are still looking for a resolution, and it's all down to what your wife think/wants. Is that it? It's actually on me- mostly. But I'm trying to be the "good" husband and see if this is worth salvaging, because it's what's expected or some shit that keeps me feeling guilty about being so serious about leaving. Even though I feel more and more that it's probably the inevitable end of this story. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 10, 2016 14:22:56 GMT -5
I'm sorry CT, I'm behind the curve with all the back stories. I take it you are still looking for a resolution, and it's all down to what your wife think/wants. Is that it? It's actually on me- mostly. But I'm trying to be the "good" husband and see if this is worth salvaging, because it's what's expected or some shit that keeps me feeling guilty about being so serious about leaving. Even though I feel more and more that it's probably the inevitable end of this story. You do not have to be "the good husband" when there isn't "a good wife" in the pair. Be a good person. That is all. (I think if you can, it's great to phrase the truth w/o sounding bitter then mention: and I work a lot on my bitterness because it's there, but I try not to feed that) |
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Post by beachguy on Oct 10, 2016 14:31:38 GMT -5
It's actually on me- mostly. But I'm trying to be the "good" husband and see if this is worth salvaging, because it's what's expected or some shit that keeps me feeling guilty about being so serious about leaving. Even though I feel more and more that it's probably the inevitable end of this story. You do not have to be "the good husband" when there isn't "a good wife" in the pair. Be a good person. That is all. (I think if you can, it's great to phrase the truth w/o sounding bitter then mention: and I work a lot on my bitterness because it's there, but I try not to feed that) I'm not an expert in marriage therapy. I only had one year long failed stint at that. It failed partly because I was not assertive enough as to my misery and bitterness and resentfulness. And partly because we were 7-10 years into our SM and even then I honestly believed it was too late. But kept my counsel on that because I thought it was the adult thing to do or some such nonsense. If I had to do that over again, I would hold nothing back. Nothing. I'd be brutally honest, particularly about what the sexlessness has done to the marriage. In my case the therapists concentrated on fixing me, under the theory I wasn't good enough to fuck. Thus validating all my wife's excuses. Wrong ending. |
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