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Post by cagedtiger on Sept 23, 2016 8:03:41 GMT -5
So, it's been a while since I last updated. We're still in counseling and she's actually talking, even though I often have to play the realist to get her to admit things aren't all rosy. Outside of counseling we're talking at home, though it feels to me still very much a roommate situation. Still nothing physical, and not any affection, but that's much me her. She's making plans for all the things she wants to do, in terms of running again, going to the gym, packing lunches, eating better, going out and being social, etc. I'm very much in a "wait and see" mode, to see how long she'll follow through with these things; usually it tops out at about a month before the pendulum swings hard the other way. I'm not trying to be mean or sabotage her at all, I'm just still very doubtful of her motivations and her resolve.
She's got a work trip this weekend that she left for last night. To be honest, I've been really, really looking forward to her being gone this weekend and having the house to myself for at least s couple of weeks.
I got home from work yesterday evening before as she was packing to leave. We chatted about the weekend coming up, and I wished her a safe trip. She turned and looked at me as I went to leave the bedroom.
"I want you to miss me this weekend."
Shit. All I could stammer back in reply was, "I know." I mean, I wasn't going to say, "...but I'm really looking forward to you not being here, and have been for a while now."
I managed to choke out something like, "I'm sure I'll miss you at some point," but I'm not going to lie if I don't feel something- that's what got me into this mess to begin with.
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Post by unmatched on Sept 23, 2016 8:09:46 GMT -5
It is funny isn't it, how you feel bad for not being able to say you will miss her. She doesn't feel remotely bad about needing space from you or about feeling deeply averse to any kind of intimacy with you. It is our empathy and unwillingness to cause pain that keeps everything going. And maybe just causes more pain in the long run.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Sept 23, 2016 8:15:41 GMT -5
Oo. I feel your discomfort at that cagedtiger. This happens to me all the time. When he's trying to reel me back in he'll say something that I would usually give a lovey response to, and you can't help but stumble for a fraction of a second as your brain goes "I don't want to give the answer you want to hear". This is the bit I struggle with. He'll say "love you" while I'm waddling past with a fuck tonne of his stinking laundry and I miss a beat so that I can sing song it back at him on the way out the room because my face is screwed up with disgust. It's usually a "yeah love you too" then "fuck" under my breath. I want to say "I love you because you are the father of my boys, but you are a shit and need to get the fuck out". Still working on courage! Enjoy your freedom, peace and space this weekend. You deserve it xxx |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Sept 23, 2016 8:16:23 GMT -5
It is funny isn't it, how you feel bad for not being able to say you will miss her. She doesn't feel remotely bad about needing space from you or about feeling deeply averse to any kind of intimacy with you. It is our empathy and unwillingness to cause pain that keeps everything going. And maybe just causes more pain in the long run. And what unmatched said  |
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Post by bballgirl on Sept 23, 2016 8:18:25 GMT -5
I think you handled that very well and very respectful to her feelings.
The bottom line is she has to give you something to miss at that level.
Enjoy the time to yourself!
Trust me I get that!
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Post by cagedtiger on Sept 23, 2016 8:23:45 GMT -5
It is funny isn't it, how you feel bad for not being able to say you will miss her. She doesn't feel remotely bad about needing space from you or about feeling deeply averse to any kind of intimacy with you. It is our empathy and unwillingness to cause pain that keeps everything going. And maybe just causes more pain in the long run. Pendulum has swung hard the other direction for her in terms of, "let's make plans to go do all these things that i said I didn't want to do previously, and I want to be around you all the time now." The lack of intimacy is a very, very deep rabbit hole to dive down; it came up in the end of our counseling session this week, and the therapist got a brief deer in the headlights look on her face from reading our reactions when the topic came up. The therapist also for the first time hinted to the wife that she might want to consider talking to somebody about what she sees as being deeper issues that should be addressed. We'll see if she follows through with that, though. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Sept 23, 2016 8:55:53 GMT -5
Mine and yours should make their bullcrap plans together Tiger!
It's strange too isn't it, that the only plans they want to be seen to be making do NOT involve intimacy and sex. Just the things other people outside the home will be able to see. I wonder if it's a ploy by them to be seen to be an active and diverse human who is involved in life in a big way, so that they can act all surprised and righteous when we still want to be rid of them because we are STILL not getting our deepest needs met by them.
I sometimes think we can't win. But then I remember that whatever anyone else thinks is irrelevant. We know in our hearts that we did our utmost to give them every chance to remain in our lives. They just need to find themselves partners with similar outlooks to themselves. They can't change who they are for us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 10:34:56 GMT -5
After I moved 80 miles from my refuser's town, I would still go back to visit him most weekends. And I began to notice that my mood would start to drop on Friday nights, and I'd find excuses to postpone the trip. And I also started to notice that my mood would begin lifting back up within a few hours of returning to my own place.
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Post by cagedtiger on Sept 23, 2016 11:11:48 GMT -5
After I moved 80 miles from my refuser's town, I would still go back to visit him most weekends. And I began to notice that my mood would start to drop on Friday nights, and I'd find excuses to postpone the trip. And I also started to notice that my mood would begin lifting back up within a few hours of returning to my own place. I'm still there when it comes to getting home from work every day. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 23, 2016 11:28:38 GMT -5
I very much identify and often experience this same conundrum.
- "Play nice, go along, don't make waves."
- "Just tell it like you are feeling it."
It is WAY more than a mere inconvenience that we have to deal with this choice; it is a MAJOR DILEMMA if you are still on the fence about reconciliation.
- If you ALWAYS play "we're getting along fine", then you are at least to some degree letting your spouse off the hook. After all, why should she try to change ANY behaviors if you'll "miss her" or say "I love you too", and that is all he/she wants?
- If you ALWAYS reply "actually, I don't miss you", the poke in the eye can be a disheartening setback. "Why should I keep trying if nothing is ever good enough?"
This one of the KEY emotionally draining features of an SM: threading that very needle... and the disheartening realization about HOW MUCH you are STILL tending to THEIR emotional needs while they have shown the pattern of not attending to your emotional need for marital sex and intimacy.
Personally, I think I'm becoming more comfortable with the idea that a divorce is the right choice for me. As such, my calculus is different: until I'm ready to have The Talk, placating with "love you, too" -- while possibly disingenuous -- is keeping the home environment from turning caustic, and it leaves the door open for the theoretically possible reconciliation.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Sept 23, 2016 12:23:23 GMT -5
After my talk, I used phrasing like I still love you in a lot of ways; or, I have love for you. In between my decision & delivering the news, sometimes I'd say, thank you.
Learning to tell my own truth is one of the major homework pieces in therapy now. If I had not "lost that talent" so badly in the end of the marriage, recovering this knack wouldn't be so hard now.
Don't sell your soul to keep the peace.
Don't be mean.
As Dan pointed out - threading that needle is challenging.
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Post by iceman on Sept 23, 2016 12:42:57 GMT -5
After I moved 80 miles from my refuser's town, I would still go back to visit him most weekends. And I began to notice that my mood would start to drop on Friday nights, and I'd find excuses to postpone the trip. And I also started to notice that my mood would begin lifting back up within a few hours of returning to my own place. I'm still there when it comes to getting home from work every day. I find that whenever my wife isn't around my mood lifts immediately. I find any excuse to get away from her. A few times she's been away for a couple of weeks and I'm so much more relaxed. Sleep better. That says a lot about the state of our marriage. One time she asked if I missed her while she was gone. I dodged the question. Didn't want to flat out lie to her. |
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Post by baza on Sept 23, 2016 17:46:43 GMT -5
The phrase "we'll see" comes up a lot in your posts Brother ct.
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It's a good, non committal, response and whoever hears it can interpret it as they choose.
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A cousin of "we'll see" is "I'll think on that".
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It might have some application in these situations.
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She says - ""I want you to miss me this weekend."
You say - "I'll think on that".
All perfectly reasonable, implying that you won't know the answer until the event has happened. Also nice and vague.
"I'll think on that" is an appropriately neutral statement applicable when things like this come up.
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And, in these situations, the odd outright lie is a perfectly legitimate tactic too.
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Or the big overcook, like - "Oh light of my life, I shall miss you as the as the night sky would miss the stars and moon yada yada yada"
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Post by Rhapsodee on Sept 24, 2016 0:44:40 GMT -5
My hub and youngest son went on a father/son trip to Cape Cod. They were gone for 8 days. I had the most incredible week. I treasured every single minute of that week. Did I miss them? NO! Hub would call and text saying "I miss you". I never replied that I missed them too, because I didn't. He made a comment when they got home that I didn't miss him. I told him no, it was no different than when he was here.
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Post by solodriver on Sept 24, 2016 1:42:17 GMT -5
Last year I was gone for a week long training. I called at night, before bed, just to see if everything was ok. Then from her, it was "Talk to you tomorrow night. Bye"
If I ever am gone from home again, I will not call or text her.
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