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Post by brian on Dec 15, 2016 6:22:55 GMT -5
Looking back on all of it, sex was a tool to achieve a goal (marriage, kids). Once those were achieved, sex is no longer necessary. Funny thing is that, without sex, the marriage will end and she will be alone. I'm curious - that "marriage will end" part - is that something on the agenda, or a will o' the wisp? It's on the agenda, I just don't have an actual date. Lots of things need to be done there. A lot of moving pieces. I was ready to leave last year. Told myself I wasn't going to let another birthday go by in this ILIASM shithole, but I did, and things haven't improved. I hate myself for comparing our relationship to others in our family, but my FIL gets more sex with his girlfriend in a week than I do in a year, and my 17-yr-old son gets more "action" (even if it's not intercourse) than my wife has ever given me since we got married. I shouldn't be jealous, but I am, and it's starting to make me bitter. Wife tells me that she needs to feel a connection before we have sex and I need to do blah blah blah for an undetermined amount of time before she'll have sex with me. I know that it's her manipulation, but I'm not sure if she realizes yet that I don't buy it. As I said in my post, I no longer see her as a sexual being and am not interested in having sex with her because I know it would be duty/reset/starfish type sex that she will only tolerate for 5 minutes (or less) and then it's another year or more of barren wasteland. In all honesty, it's the kids holding me back. It's not that I don't think they can handle a divorce, but getting all 4 of them off to college is a major financial undertaking that I don't want to jeopardize right now. That being said, I'm actively looking for a person that thinks sex is fun, pleasurable, and wants to have sex with me.
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Post by brian on Dec 14, 2016 23:12:17 GMT -5
What freaks, or has freaked, me out?
-- That my refuser is PROUD of the fact that she has never had an orgasm. I'm sure it's a control thing, and she used to stop our love making before she "lost control"... should have left then. Now, I just don't see her as a sexual creature any longer, so I honestly don't care.
Honorable mentions: -- She still makes sexual suggestions or outright offers when she is in a safe place (during business travel, for example) and she knows that there can't be any real delivery. She promised me a bathtub get together nearly weekly for almost 2 years, and she actually thought that I thought it might happen. -- The only time we seemed to ever have sex were 1) when we were actively trying to make a baby; and 2) when she was drunk (1 in 10 chance) back when I actually believed we were a married couple -- That she had the audacity to say, "Are we there yet?" after just a couple of minutes of sex during one of our "make a baby" phases.
Looking back on all of it, sex was a tool to achieve a goal (marriage, kids). Once those were achieved, sex is no longer necessary. Funny thing is that, without sex, the marriage will end and she will be alone.
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Post by brian on Dec 1, 2016 21:56:38 GMT -5
...and he wants me to give the marriage another chance. Because I'm such a ________ I said that I'd try again. I think that's where your mistake is... saying YOU would try (again). And his mistake is that he wants YOU to give the marriage another chance. Where is his effort? Where is he working hard at being a partner? If he wanted to start repairing the marriage, he needs to apologize for his part, ask you for some forgiveness, and then pick one or two things off the list to really work on. Having a long list probably won't work. It's too overwhelming to try to address everything at once. He has to make some changes, and you need to decide if you're (a) willing to give him the chance; and (b) what kind of pace is necessary to get you to where the relationship needs to be for your health. If the pace that he's comfortable working at doesn't even get you to a make-out session in a few months (or years), is it really worth the effort? High school relationships move faster than that.
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Post by brian on Nov 30, 2016 7:49:11 GMT -5
Wow. About ten years ago when I felt like things were slipping, I did some research online and ordered a little vibrator that I thought might rekindle her interest.....but oh man, when it arrived she heaped shame upon me and that thing was being returned the very next day. I think she was appalled. I felt like shit. I was trying. But in hindsight, it is all crystal clear. I'm so sorry you went through that. If I had done that the very same thing would have happened to me. I can't even discuss sex with her anymore without being shamed for having a sex drive. And back when we first met, we were as passionate lovers as you can imagine.
Damn!
More or less the same thing for me, but instead of ordering the item (a dildo instead of a vibrator), I went into a local sex shop and just bought it. Having things shipped to my house is a risky undertaking as I have kids that think every box delivered has something that must be for them. Anyways, when I presented it with an offer, I got the "it's gross", "I don't do that", "I won't touch it and don't want to even look at it" responses. One evening, out of frustration, I presented it to her in the family room as she was watching TV and I was heading to bed. Told her that she should try it and went through all of the "benefits", such as it doesn't go soft, goes exactly where you want it, zero risk of pregnancy, doesn't care how rough/soft/slow/fast/gentle you want to be, is always ready when you are, etc. She wrapped it in a towel and wouldn't even consider it. I've tried many things in the past. My closet has a couple of toys, foreplay games (not even the actual intercourse ones), oils, and gels. None of it has ever been used. In years past I used to do things that she once said were either a fantasy or at least a turn-on -- making love on rose pedals, romantic getaways away from the kids, etc. Never resulted in anything, so I stopped trying.
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Post by brian on Nov 27, 2016 8:57:41 GMT -5
I'm with baz on this one. For the longest time, I held out hope that if I just did or said the right thing(s), she would want to engage in a little intimacy. I abruptly reached my tipping point this past anniversary when we had a horrible attempt at intimacy (greatly wanted on my part, but it was very forced and non-loving on her part) that ended before it really began. At that moment, I no longer saw her as a sexual creature and am working on my next steps.
so... I lived for years under the "hope tonight is the tonight" banner, but am now fully accepting that it's never going to happen. I have even told her that she can't give me what I want, a statement that she takes offense to, but she won't listen to what I want. It's not "just sex" that I want. I want to have sex with someone that finds sex fun and pleasurable... and wants to have sex with me. I think that's all 3 strikes for my complicated legal housemate.
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Post by brian on Nov 27, 2016 8:41:33 GMT -5
lol... except that's the way she wants it... hidden... forever.
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Post by brian on Nov 27, 2016 8:21:38 GMT -5
Besides the obvious ones of money, exit plan, and outsourcing, what is the biggest thing that you have purposely hidden from your refuser?
For me, at least right now, it's that I have minor hand surgery scheduled in less than 2 weeks. This was scheduled nearly a month ago and the condition that sent me to the doctor started almost a month before that. My refuser knows nothing. I have no desire to tell her until I have to. I knew what would happen if I had told her immediately and I know what she'll say and think if she learns about it between now and the scheduled date... or after the surgery. I picked the lesser of the evils... to not say anything until I absolutely have to. It's a local anesthetic, so I won't need her to bring me home. I'll do this completely on my own. She'll be upset, but that's better than her coming up with all of the horrible things that MIGHT happen or the life-threatening conditions that I MIGHT have and worrying herself sick about it (and projecting all of that onto me). I like to take life as it comes. It's not that I don't plan for the future, but I don't dwell and worry about all of the bad things that might happen... ruins the ride.
So... let's have it. What have you kept hidden?
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Post by brian on Oct 18, 2016 21:55:01 GMT -5
Me too! But getting my housemate to agree to let me go to a "meetup with my ILIASM support group" just won't fly. Can't we say we are going to a concert with friends?? Lol!! Which concert? Which friends? When will you be back? Where are you staying? Why can't I come? Why aren't you saving your vacation time for "the family"? The list of questions would be limitless... and I dislike lying, so I would simply say that I am going to spend time with people from my sexless marriage online support group. And then WW III would start. LOL
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Post by brian on Oct 18, 2016 21:11:34 GMT -5
How I would love to meet up with folks from here!!! Me too! But getting my housemate to agree to let me go to a "meetup with my ILIASM support group" just won't fly.
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Post by brian on Oct 15, 2016 23:37:26 GMT -5
RexCorvus - This bit of your post leapt out at me - "Well my wife tracked her ovulation cycles. She kept charts in her night stand where every morning she would record her temperature, her cervical fluid consistency, if she had any breast tenderness, her spotting/periods... so she knew exactly when she was ovulating. When she was she would offer sex"- It reads like when she wants something off you - say kids - she is motivated, methodical, diligent and determined. - But if you want something off her, you can go fuck yourself. That's my marriage arrangement in a nutshell. Maybe not 100%, but certainly when it pertains to sex. She also seems to believe that my purpose in life is to do what she wants done around the house.
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Post by brian on Oct 15, 2016 23:29:18 GMT -5
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Post by brian on Sept 21, 2016 21:21:44 GMT -5
Snuggling? Not so much. Touching? Only what SHE wants, when she wants it. I think she uses some touch (I massage her back, holding hands, etc.) as a way of validating that I am still around and at least somewhat in control. I think she is starting to realize that I no longer view her as a sexual being, and as such, my desire to give her what she wants is near zero. Especially after our anniversary "attempt".
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Post by brian on Aug 31, 2016 20:29:35 GMT -5
You both are obviously not sexually compatible. With my ex she would have been compatible. Sex was not important to him and he avoided it unless I got extremely bitchy which is so out of character for me but he knew he had to reset me only thing was I didn't know I was being reset. I think you know what you want. You need to rip the band aid off and get out. Set a timeline for yourself. She may try to have sex with you but it will only be a reset. You deserve a woman that would want and desire you sexually and that enjoys it for her own pleasure, my God orgasms feel great!! That is not her. I forget who it was but someone said his wife didn't like the feeling of loss of control that goes with sex. Even an orgasm is an unacceptable loss of control. Now that's a control freak. And just goes to show that the "why" in many sexless marriages, not that it matters, is control. This is why when they say they'll fight for the marriage, they don't change. They just try harder to get you to accept things they way they want them. Changing requires relinquishing some control. But then you can't change another person, which is why knowing why is of academic interest. I believe that was me... as "HH" in the old EP forum (I've since lost the desire to remain anonymous, hence I am now using my real name). If it wasn't me, then it might as well be me, because that is exactly how my wife is. She wears the "I've never had an orgasm" banner as a badge of honor.
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Post by brian on Aug 31, 2016 20:15:02 GMT -5
You had me until "By the time I get it". I'm lucky if I get 5 minutes a year, and that ain't enough time to get any kind of release. Of course now, after a disastrous 20-yr anniversary, I no longer want her at all.
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