|
Post by iceman on Aug 23, 2018 11:10:21 GMT -5
Last week my wife and I had our most frank and intense conversation to date about our marriage. It started out with both of us very angry with lots of yelling and throwing out accusations but we eventually worked through that and calmed down to be able to have a real conversation. It was very emotional. I openly talked about leaving. She seemed to fully accept that possibility. I talked about how I was no longer in love with her and really didn’t enjoy her company. We even talked about how things might work with the kids. It was a calm conversation, emotional but calm. That part was good.
However, when I would I talk about my perception of where our marriage fell apart she took no responsibility at all and turned it around to the point where everything is my fault. She said she pulled away from me because I made it clear that I didn’t want her in my life which I understand at this point. I have pulled away and disengaged from our marriage over the last few years. I fully admit that. But from my perspective I pulled away when I had given up on trying to find intimacy, both physical and emotional, with her because of her indifference towards me and saw no possibility of her changing. She seems to be glossing over that part.
She also said she doesn’t believe in divorce and felt marriage should contiube through the really hard times even if we’re perpetually unhappy. Really? We should go through life in a state of unhappiness because we made the mistake of marrying each other? I always suspected this is her view of marriage. It’s the model of marriage her parents showed her.
I came away very confused. She was so masterful, even if her intent wasn’t to sow confusion in me, that I’ve begun to doubt myself. I’ve always felt that I had the high moral ground but after this I can’t help to ask myself, ‘am I the problem?’ If I work harder can the marriage be saved? Or have I been supremely gaslighted?
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Aug 16, 2018 9:55:53 GMT -5
"Her ‘care’ this far has been going to appointments me with me. Not because I needed a ride she just wanted to go. Usually, I don’t really care if she goes or not and sometimes I prefer that I go alone. I think she was referring to emotional support with her comment which is pretty laughable since she’s never given emotional support at any point in our marriage and it hasn’t changed since I was diagnosed. Shit!!! As I write this I wonder again why I’ve stayed in this marriage so long!!! " Do you really want her with you at those appointments? You could say, "no." If you want company, you could invite a friend or another relative. One thing that caused me to divorce was realizing that I realized that if I became seriously ill, I didn't want my h to be my caregiver nor did I want him to have the responsibility of making decisions on my behalf should I become incapacitated. In fact, I realized that having him in such a position would be stressful, not comforting for me. Would you be happier without her around as you face your illness? I would be happier without her, illness or not.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Aug 15, 2018 13:54:33 GMT -5
"Family meetings" probably should involve the entire family. Otherwise you may find yourself on the other end of the stick at some point. As someone excluded from such meetings, I can say it is maddening as hell. As to her supporting you with your cancer, exactly what support is she providing? Is she truly caring for you, or are is she a ride to and from treatment? Your kids and Uber could fill that role without the drama. As for the kids? They likely already know the marriage is crap. You are probably not fooling anyone. If they are college age and your wife makes significantly less than you do, they can also likely get a ton of money for college if your wife claims them after a divorce. But you do need to figure out what you want to do. Then figure out how to do it. Then do it. Life really doesn't have to be so damn hard. Her ‘care’ this far has been going to appointments me with me. Not because I needed a ride she just wanted to go. Usually, I don’t really care if she goes or not and sometimes I prefer that I go alone. I think she was referring to emotional support with her comment which is pretty laughable since she’s never given emotional support at any point in our marriage and it hasn’t changed since I was diagnosed. Shit!!! As I write this I wonder again why I’ve stayed in this marriage so long!!! yes, I’m sure the kids know our marriage is crap. They aren’t blind nor stupid. The financial aspects of a divorce on college is quite valid. My ex made considerably less than me and claimed our daughter. She received a lot more financial aid than if I claimed her.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Aug 15, 2018 13:39:51 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother iceman - "She brought that up as well, that I needed to decide if I wanted to go through cancer alone or with somebody. That bothered me...." It would bother me too mate. Implicit in it is that she would not be interested in an amicable parting of the ways, and most certainly would not want to be a person of support to you if she didn't have to be. FWIW, after we split, my missus had a couple of serious health incidents, and I was happy to play a support role for her at those times. Seemed the right thing to do as far as I was concerned, and I did it because I wanted to, not because I felt obligated to. Then she had another incident that tipped her over, and again I helped out (mainly for my adult kids sake) with the arrangements and dealing with her estate etc. I'm not trying to pass myself off as a Saint here, it just seemed basic human decency toward a person I had known most of my adult life. Maybe your missus didn't mean it, or launched without thinking ?? But if she meant it, then it smacks of coercion / manipulation / guilt induction. And that would tend to ADD to the case to offload her, not detract from it. Your kids. They are a sidebar to the main game here, which is you and your missus. They are a very important sidebar, but a sidebar none the less. Their needs have to be respected and taken into account, but they can't be the main driver to your difficult choice. Presumably your missus selfish attitude is limited to you, and she still wants to do what's best for the kids (just like you do) so if you are both on the same page there, you ought be able to shepherd them through the transition without excessive drama. Well put as usual. I hadn’t thought about that aspect of her comment that she was threatening to completely wash her hands of me should we divorce even if my health goes to hell but you’re right it seems to be very ominous comment. Should the worse happen I feel much more confident that my ex would be much more compassionate and caring than my current wife. I’ve told her about my condition and she seems very concerned and commented that she wishes we lived closer together in case I go downhill. i realize the kids a sidebar in this situation. A very important sidebar but a sidebar nonetheless. I would hope we would be able to work together to do what is best for them and put our differences aside but there’s a part of me that truly worries that she’ll have trouble doing that. There have been too many arguments in which she became very irrational and petty.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Aug 15, 2018 13:25:58 GMT -5
If she does not want the marriage to end, what does she want? I am sure she likes the perks. Social status? Your income? Stability? She believes this can keep going on, I am sure, just like my wife thought it could keep going on. Can it keep going on? Is she right? It is up to you to change it, any which way you want. I asked for an open marriage, twice, and after I was turned down the second time and nothing changed, I stopped asking. I told her. She filed. In my case, I did not want to divorce until the kids were raised. My kids are about the same age as yours, and doing fine. My bet is your kids already knew something was not right, and they will be ok, too.s It’s a really good question as to why she wants to stay married. I’ve asked her that many times and she never gives a very good answer. She seems to focus on more of the non-romantic/intimate aspects of marriage - continuity, stability, companionship. Etc. She never mentions money but I’m sure one her first concerns should split up would be money. My money. I want those things as well but I need the romantic aspects of marriage much more than those things - affection, sex, just the feeling of being head over heels in love, just wanting to be in same room as her breathing the same air. Im sure she thinks we can go on like this forever. From what I saw and what she’s told me it’s how her parents were. Their marriage was a largely platonic partnership and nothing more. They seemed terribly unhappy but they trundled on for almost 50 years. I think that’s what she expect us to do. The only way I think she would agree that we should end the marriage is if I were turn into a lying, cheating, abusive asshole, and that just not in my DNA. So I’m going to have be the bad guy and initiate the end myself. I think you’re probably right that it won’t really come as a surprise to my kids.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Aug 14, 2018 13:47:44 GMT -5
Yesterday I called the kids together to discuss an important family matter. Since it was more relevant to me I decided I wanted to discuss it with them without my wife. My wife is fully aware of the topic. There was some confusion about me discussing it alone due to some miscommunication, mainly on my part. So I proceeded without her. She walked in about halfway into the conversation and was obviously upset that I had started but held her tongue and let me finish. Afterwards she laid into me! She was as pissed off as I’ve ever seen her. And she was right!! I deserved every bit of the tongue lashing she gave me. It was a bad idea to go it alone. I should have included her. She told me how hurt she was and that it was just another example of how I show that I don’t want her involved in my life and proceeded to dredge up other examples. I have to confess I have no recollection of most of the events she pointed out. Don’t know if I’m just an oblivious boob or she’s attaching unreasonable meanings to trivial events. Or, I’ll be kind and say she’s not remembering things correctly instead of the harsher view that she’s making shit up. Either way it really doesn’t matter.
She told me again that she doesn’t want the marriage to end but I need to make a decision as to whether I do. And she was right about that as well. We’ve had this conversation many time before. I fully admit that I disengaged from my marriage a few years ago. As I wrote a while back that I now have prostate cancer (the treatment is going quite well) that has caused me to withdraw even more. I don’t want to spend whatever time I have, and I hope it’s a lot, in a bad marriage. She brought that up as well, that I needed to decide if I wanted to go through cancer alone or with somebody. That bothered me, There was nothing about working to make our bad marriage better, just that I wouldn’t have to go through cancer alone. As afraid as I am about my cancer I’d rather get out of my marriage and have some happier times and die ‘alone’, though even if I’m not married I’d still have my kids around.
I feel stuck. I know I should make the very tough decision and leave but I worry about what how my kids would take it. It’s not like they’re young children. They’re 19 & 17 yo but still I worry about what the impact might be. I worry about my wife. She’s not a bad person. We’re just not compatible, never really have been. But me leaving would hurt her a great deal and that bothers me a great deal as well. When she tells me she wants to stay married and that she has feelings for me, even if she she never acts on those feeling iit makes it even more difficult.
I have no real point to all of this I’m just rambling. Thanks for reading ...
|
|
|
Post by iceman on May 25, 2018 8:59:06 GMT -5
My wife says she loves me. She doesn’t seem to understand that there is a difference between loving someone and being in love. I can say I love my wife in a platonic way but I’m not in love with her. Haven’t been for several years. I’ve told my wife that but she just doesn’t get it. She says she loves me so she’s in love with me. Huh?? How can she say she’s in love with me when there is no intimacy, affection, or romance? Our relationship is more like roommates who also parent our children. My wife seems comfortable with this arrangement. I’m not!! Our relationship has devolved into something very similar to her parents’ relationship. I fear that it in her mind if her parents were somehow able to make it work and stay together for 50 plus years even though they might not have been happy then she should do the same. I don’t want just to make it work and stay together without regard for our happiness. I want a lot more than that!!
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 24, 2018 5:51:14 GMT -5
It took about 15 years to go from barely acceptable to completely unacceptable, but still having very occasional sex, to completely sexless. I missed many red flags before we married, or rather I rationalized them away. I’ve been paying the price of that for many years now.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 5, 2018 10:55:27 GMT -5
iceman I'm so sorry to hear about what you are going through but stay positive and I know everything will be ok. You will come out of this stronger. As far as the fear of being alone - the older we get I believe the single women outnumber the men twofold so most likely you won't be alone. Try to see the positives in your wife, and take the support she gives because she is loving you the way she is capable of. Big hugs for you. You’re right. This is how my wife shows love and that’s really all she is capable of. She does love me albeit in almost a platonic way. I feel a certain degree of guilt that I’m thinking about leaving when she does care so much about me. Seems so ungrateful on my part.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 5, 2018 10:49:58 GMT -5
So sorry to hear about the cancer, iceman. I have men in my life (including my father) who have been treated for and are doing well after a prostate cancer diagnosis. Sending positive thoughts that all goes well for you. Take care Thank you. I like to hear positive stories about cancer. Gives me hope.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 5, 2018 10:43:56 GMT -5
Sorry to hear your news Brother iceman . The only direct thing I can offer you here is my Brothers experience with prostate cancer, diagnosed a bit over 8 years ago. He's 71 now. The indicated treatment for him, and his version of the disease at that time was radium pellets being placed in the prostate, the plan being to keep it under control, not "eliminate" it. It has been very successful thus far and the Doc has said to him "You'll likely die with this condition still in place, but you won't die because of it, you'll cark it from something else". It did fuck up his sex life for about 12 months though. He has also said that coming to terms with this was very very difficult early on, but longer term - apart from understandable raised anxiety levels just before his check ups - he rarely even thinks about it as he's busy with lots of other stuff. It hasn't made any material difference to his life in the wider scheme of things. I've got no specific suggestions for you Brother iceman . I'm not seeing any compelling reason that your diagnosis means that you ought abandon - or accelerate - the resolution of your ILIASM deal. Nothing has changed in regard to your marriage, nor is it likely to. You might as well treat it just as you would have had this cancer issue not happened. Of course, so sorry to hear of your diagnosis and I'm sure your very scared, but I'll echo what others have said. Any of us could die from anything at any time-and given that prostate cancer is quite treatable (from what I've heard) you should try to live as if you'll live a long life. Fucked up sex life for 12 months? So what else is new? Hopefully this WILL light a fire under you and spur you to action to make your life happier. I can't recall your backstory, but if you're on this forum, things are bad. Realizing one's mortality may motivate you to grab life by the balls, so to speak, and reach out for the loving relatonship you want and deserve. And, all other things being equal, I think you'll be just as lovable with prostate cancer as without it. Love and light to you, my friend. Keep us posted. I hope this isn't too breezy because I've had benign tumors removed and until you find out, the fear of death is pervasive and real. But prostate is a "good" cancer to get. Keep those two oncologists busy. Heck, maybe they know some women on the prowl! Seriously! ,<3<3 Good idea! Maybe I should start prowling around the waiting room at the oncologist. There are some good looking women there. They might appreciate some attention. 😀
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 5, 2018 10:36:17 GMT -5
Hey iceman, sorry to her of the diagnosis but glad to hear of the guarded positive prognosis. Before I divorced I thought about that question long and hard. Cancer and heart disease run in my family. What if I contracted either or something else that required a caregiver? As the thought entered my head the idea of my ex-wife being that caregiver almost gave me a panic attack. No thanks. Put me in a home or pull the plug instead of that. But it's amazing what medicine can do now. You'll probably live to 100. But the way I look at it is this. Fall over dead tomorrow or live to 100, will you look back with regrets? THAT is the question. Keeping with the bright and cheery conversation you could always be hit by a car crossing the street. Not sure where I'm going with this other than to encourage you to be true to yourself. Thanks for the encouragement. I certainly hope to live to 100. Cancer aside my family typically has very long lives. My docs don’t seemed terribly concerned. If my treatment doesn’t go well, they seem to have lots of other tricks in their bag.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 5, 2018 10:25:02 GMT -5
Sorry to hear your news Brother iceman . The only direct thing I can offer you here is my Brothers experience with prostate cancer, diagnosed a bit over 8 years ago. He's 71 now. The indicated treatment for him, and his version of the disease at that time was radium pellets being placed in the prostate, the plan being to keep it under control, not "eliminate" it. It has been very successful thus far and the Doc has said to him "You'll likely die with this condition still in place, but you won't die because of it, you'll cark it from something else". It did fuck up his sex life for about 12 months though. He has also said that coming to terms with this was very very difficult early on, but longer term - apart from understandable raised anxiety levels just before his check ups - he rarely even thinks about it as he's busy with lots of other stuff. It hasn't made any material difference to his life in the wider scheme of things. I've got no specific suggestions for you Brother iceman . I'm not seeing any compelling reason that your diagnosis means that you ought abandon - or accelerate - the resolution of your ILIASM deal. Nothing has changed in regard to your marriage, nor is it likely to. You might as well treat it just as you would have had this cancer issue not happened. Thank you for your support. I can understand your brother’s anxiety before his checkups. I feel it too. I’m hopeful that I can get to the place after a few more positive checkups where I don’t think about it constantly. You are absolutely correct about nothing really changing in my marriage. It was crap before my diagnosis and it’s crap now with the added delight of cancer thrown into the mix. We are the same couple with the same marital dynamics. When I really think about I can’t really see a reason to stay except out of fear.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 4, 2018 15:42:45 GMT -5
iceman , I am sorry to hear about your cancer. I cannot see why your condition would change the characteristics of your SM. If your W did not want to fuck you before she will not want to fuck you now. Since you had been planning to eventually leave then now would be the time to see a lawyer. Now would be the time to start the rest of your life. You said about potential new partners I am sure some will run for the door but many will not. My friend had his prostate removed because of cancer. Two years later his wife died from a heart attack. I was talking to him a few months ago and he mentioned having a date. We discussed the trails of dating at our age and his take is that it is easier than when we were in high school. He uses an injection to achieve erections and says the women are supportive of his desire to please them. His opinion is that available women in their sixties are comfortable with their sexuality and want to enjoy life. My point is do not assume women will not find you desirable because you have cancer. Some will reject you because of it, they are not your people. Thank you. You’re right about my W. I really shouldn’t have expects her desire to fuck me, or rather the lack thereof, should change since I have cancer. Actually she’s showing her love as she knows how. It’s really the way she knows. She’s always been very good at providing support to anybody who has something adverse going on with them. She almost goes overboard with wanting to help. I hope you’re right about women not being turned off by cancer. At least I don’t need an injection to achieve an erection. 😀
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Apr 4, 2018 14:23:02 GMT -5
I’ve been mostly away from here for a couple of months. Something BIG happened that diverted my attention. I found out that I have prostate cancer and it has knocked me for an emotional loop. My cancer is treatable and I’m responding quite well to the treatments so that’s very good. I’m hopeful that I’ll be fully cured. So far, it’s been relatively non-invasive and beside having more doctors visits in the last couple of months than I think I’ve had in my entire on the surface my life has been unaffected. I have three doctors, a urologist and two oncologists. WTF??? I can’t believe that I have oncologists!! But it’s still fucking cancer!! While I’m trying to be optimistic I’m also trying to temper my optimism in case I suddenly no longer respond to the treatments.
The whole thing is just emotionally exhausting. Physically I’m fine. I have no pain or discomfort. I’d never know I had anything wrong with me. I’m determined not let this consume me. Life goes on even when one has cancer. I do however feel a low level of anxiety constantly, just under the surface. It never goes away and it takes a toll. It has complicated my marriage a great deal. We already had a largely dysfunctional marriage. No sex or affection. Largely leading separate lives. I had planned to leave in the next couple of years. Now I really don’t know what to do. My wife has been very supportive. She goes to almost all of my appointments with me to give me emotional support. I had hoped that it would change her attitude towards me and our marriage. I had hoped it would make her realize that all the crap she worries and gets upset about is so trivial when faced with cancer. Frankly, I had hoped that she would realize that she could lose me and come to appreciate and love me again. I had hoped it might draw us closer. None of that has happened. She still worries and gets upset about the same trivial things. We still have no sex or affection. The only difference I see is that she seems to be going out of her way not to upset me. While I appreciate her going to my appts with me that’s not the kind of support I need. What I really need is affection, and dare I say it, occasional sex even more than I did before I had cancer. I just need human contact! Actually just to be clear I need female human contact. 😀
I still have the desire to leave her. One thing that having something like cancer does is dramatically change one's perspective. While I’m hopeful that I have many years ahead of me I really don’t know. There’s a degree of uncertainty that I live with. Whether I do or not have many years ahead of me I know I don’t want to spend however many years I have left in my marriage. More so than ever, life is way too short not to be happy. I really want to find somebody to love and have the kind of relationship I’ve craved for so many years. But I don’t want to face cancer alone and if I leave I fear that’s what I’d be doing. I can’t imagine having cancer is an attractive characteristic for most women. If I were to meet someone even though I’m symptom freeI’m thinking at some point me having cancer would have to come up and they’d find a way to find the door and I’d never see them again. Can’t say I’d really blame them.
i feel as though I’m in a quandary. I don’t want to stay but afraid if I leave I’ll be alone for the rest of my life and along the way I might have to have a death battle with cancer and I don’t want to do that either. Any thoughts?
Thanks for reading. I’m sorry this is so depressing.
|
|