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Post by flyingsolo on May 18, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -5
So, here's a bit of a curious question, that I am sure goes WAY deeper, but I'll ask it anyway:
For those of you that are married, but in a sexless marriage, if you asked your "refusing" spouse, would they indicate that they "loved you"?
Some background on why I ask:
I realize of course that you can love someone and not be "in love" with someone but I am asking out of curiosity. Currently my wife and I are in counseling (and have been for about 10 months) and I'm pretty sure we would both agree that we love each other (which is why we are still trying to work it out). In general, we get along well most of the time, but I really feel like roommates more than spouses whenever intimacy comes up. I cannot get over the flat outright refusal of my wife to engage in any attempt at physical intimacy, other than maybe a quick kiss or hug, with someone she claims to love. Believe me, I am all about pleasing her first, so I don't think that's the issue. However, when it comes to any attempt to move into something more physical, it quickly dies. I know this is the age old dilemma - men can do physical intimacy without emotional intimacy and women are generally in need of emotional intimacy first.
She claims that we aren't emotionally connected and therefore she can't engage in sexual intimacy (apparently of any kind). She's also stated that she just isn't interested in sex right now, and if she were, it would definitely be with me. Needless to say, the past five years or more have been virtually sexless (maybe three or four times per year, and the past fifteen months have been completely sexless). I would think if you are trying to work out a marriage and truly love someone, you would be willing to engage in activities which promote closeness and intimacy with each other, which foreplay and sex certainly do. I really try to understand her position, however, I struggle with it severely to the point where this is the biggest stress in my life right now, more so than my career, money or recently losing a parent. In my mind, if you really really really love someone and are committed to making a marriage work, you may need to step out of your comfort zone at times. She refuses to even go away with me for a weekend without the kids.
Our past sex life used to be pretty good, then came kids, careers, etc. Any attempts I've made to restart anything gets quickly shot down. This definitely isn't where I pictured my sex life with my wife ending up when we started down this path twenty plus years ago. I am wondering if we just aren't sexually compatible anymore. Am I just "why chasing" here or am I missing something here ladies? Would a spouse who truly "loves" you, continue to refuse you?
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Post by choosinghappy on May 18, 2018 12:59:03 GMT -5
Yes my spouse would still say he loves me. He would probably still say he’s IN love with me. But it has become obvious we do not have the same definitions when it comes to being in love nor expectations of a marriage.
I think a LOT of people here have a marriage where the major issue is simply sexual incompatibility (which causes other major issues)*. I certainly do. And until I met someone with whom I truly am fully sexually compatible, I didn’t even realize just how extremely WRONG it all is in my marriage.
*Debatable whether the sexual incompatibility is the cause or effect of other major issues for many marriages. Probably different for everyone. It's the whole chicken-or-egg question.
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Post by GeekGoddess on May 18, 2018 14:31:16 GMT -5
My Ex did tell me he loved me when I told him I was going to divorce him. “But I LOOOVE you!”
I told him I know he does & I still had love for him too. That wasn’t the issue.
He came around to saying: ok, you say you love me, but maybe you aren’t IN love with me anymore. If that’s the case, there’s nothing I can do about that.
I took that “out” and said: that’s correct. I love you, a lot like a brother, but I am not IN love with you.
17 years of marriage. Together for 8 years before that. The whole Talk took about 20 minutes. I tried to not be offended by that, & just grateful he accepted my choice.
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Post by flounder on May 18, 2018 14:42:29 GMT -5
My Ex did tell me he loved me when I told him I was going to divorce him. “But I LOOOVE you!” I told him I know he does & I still had love for him too. That wasn’t the issue. He came around to saying: ok, you say you love me, but maybe you aren’t IN love with me anymore. If that’s the case, there’s nothing I can do about that. I took that “out” and said: that’s correct. I love you, a lot like a brother, but I am not IN love with you. 17 years of marriage. Together for 8 years before that. The whole Talk took about 20 minutes. I tried to not be offended by that, & just grateful he accepted my choice. Sounds like yours went fairly easy. Lucky. Good on you for being able to get out.
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Post by h on May 18, 2018 16:20:45 GMT -5
My W would definitely say that she loves me. Her definition of love just doesn't necessarily require sex.
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Post by saarinista on May 18, 2018 16:33:35 GMT -5
My h would absolutely say he loves me. I think he does. I love him. But I never fell "in love" with him, nor, though he's a nice looking man, did I ever feel much of (if any) sexual chemistry with him
I care about him deeply. We are both only children, from the midwest, who've been through a lot of crap. We both have (unfortunately) some of the same psychological flaws. I do not want him to hurt. That's a big reason why I married him. I convinced myself that if I worked hard enough at my commitment, and that if he wanted and needed me (he wanted sex all the time at first, though for me at least it was never that great, because there just wasn't chemistry) and that if I remembered that no marriage is perfect and didn't expect too much, we could be happy.
But I knew deep down from the beginning that I was trying to fool myself. I heard a little voice from the depths of my soul, but I ignored it. I caved to my overwhelming desire to not be alone, to not be a strange, unwanted single woman, and to my ego needs to be someone else's lifeline, their "one and only."
Also, I was tired of being horny and unable to get laid sometimes. I though marriage would solve that problem.
Hoo-boy! Was I wrong.
But I definitely love my H. He's the only family I have now, basically (save some second and third cousins). He's a good man, he tries hard, and probably if I begged harder he'd fuck me now and then. Strange thing is though, I don't want that.
I just want to be his friend. That's love. But not the kind needed to sustain what I call a good marriage.
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Post by bballgirl on May 18, 2018 16:35:02 GMT -5
My spouse would say he loves me and I love him but we are not in love. We love each other like family but not in an incestuous way. I divorced him in 2016. I told him I love him but I'm not in love. Sometimes I feel like I have the pov of the refusers because I no longer want sex or intimacy with my spouse. We may cuddle and kiss but it's not passionate. It is affectionate though and I like that. We got back together in 2018 and I moved back to the marital home. We were just sexually incompatible but compatible in other ways not to mention our kids and having the family back together again. I came to the epiphany for me (and it works for me but it's not typical), I can get my needs met by more than one man. So passion, sex, intimacy, etc is with fwb who at this point is a good friend we've been doing this four years. Family life, companionship, stability, from exH. Not in love but I feel loved, wanted and desired just by two different men.
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Post by flyingsolo on May 18, 2018 17:48:13 GMT -5
My spouse would say he loves me and I love him but we are not in love. We love each other like family but not in an incestuous way. I divorced him in 2016. I told him I love him but I'm not in love. Sometimes I feel like I have the pov of the refusers because I no longer want sex or intimacy with my spouse. We may cuddle and kiss but it's not passionate. It is affectionate though and I like that. We got back together in 2018 and I moved back to the marital home. We were just sexually incompatible but compatible in other ways not to mention our kids and having the family back together again. I came to the epiphany for me (and it works for me but it's not typical), I can get my needs met by more than one man. So passion, sex, intimacy, etc is with fwb who at this point is a good friend we've been doing this four years. Family life, companionship, stability, from exH. Not in love but I feel loved, wanted and desired just by two different men. Interesting dynamic that you were "out", but got back into the sexless relationship. Does your current ex-husband know you outsource bballgirl? (i.e. did you have a discussion like "Hey, if I'm coming back understand that we aren't going to have sex and I am getting it elsewhere" or do you outsource behind his back)? Do you have sex with your ex-husband also since you are back in the house? Forgive the questions, the dynamic is just fascinating as I haven't heard of this happening too often.
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Post by bballgirl on May 18, 2018 18:14:54 GMT -5
My spouse would say he loves me and I love him but we are not in love. We love each other like family but not in an incestuous way. I divorced him in 2016. I told him I love him but I'm not in love. Sometimes I feel like I have the pov of the refusers because I no longer want sex or intimacy with my spouse. We may cuddle and kiss but it's not passionate. It is affectionate though and I like that. We got back together in 2018 and I moved back to the marital home. We were just sexually incompatible but compatible in other ways not to mention our kids and having the family back together again. I came to the epiphany for me (and it works for me but it's not typical), I can get my needs met by more than one man. So passion, sex, intimacy, etc is with fwb who at this point is a good friend we've been doing this four years. Family life, companionship, stability, from exH. Not in love but I feel loved, wanted and desired just by two different men. Interesting dynamic that you were "out", but got back into the sexless relationship. Does your current ex-husband know you outsource bballgirl? (i.e. did you have a discussion like "Hey, if I'm coming back understand that we aren't going to have sex and I am getting it elsewhere" or do you outsource behind his back)? Do you have sex with your ex-husband also since you are back in the house? Forgive the questions, the dynamic is just fascinating as I haven't heard of this happening too often. No apologies necessary I realize my situation is very unusual. I outsource behind his back. If he would have brought sex up when we got back together then I would have stated my terms. We were divorced almost two years when we decided to try to have a relationship again. He did not ask me if I dated other men, if I had sex, etc. I've discussed this with my fwb and we both think that he might know or he might wonder but deep down he is just relieved that he doesn't have to have sex with me anymore. So he has his family under one roof, gets to see his kids everyday, has delicious meals cooked for him, and his best friend sitting next to him to watch our tv shows together and do things together on the weekends. I have not had sex with the ex since I moved back in and I'm ok with that. I think he's handsome but I'm not sexually attracted to him. This arrangement works for me because I'm not his wife and I'm not sexless. Feel free to ask anything.
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Post by saarinista on May 18, 2018 18:40:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the world needs more outside the box alternatives if you will such as bballgirl s situation. The world has changed since marriage was "invented" by whoever invented it. (Who DID invent it, anyway?) We are living longer and people DO change. There should be shame-free solutions for people for whom traditional marriage AND divorce models no longer fit. "Til death do us part, no matter how horny and dissatisfied one of us might be 20 or 30 years from now" should not be the vow we take when we marry in the 2000's, methinks.
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Post by baza on May 18, 2018 19:34:51 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother flyingsolo - "Would a spouse who truly "loves" you, continue to refuse you?" The overwhelming evidence in these very pages says "yes". An ILIASM spouse will say they love you, but continue to refuse you. The group is littered with such stories. Indeed that's exactly what most of the stories in here say. Yours included. Now you can debate whether the refusive spouse is lying when they say they love you, and you can debate the different types of love that they might mean when they say they love you. But such debate does not change the facts on the ground. In the sexual component of the deal, you ain't on the same page. Really, not even in the same book. That doesn't make her (or you) *wrong* - though it DOES make you wrong for each other. Wrong enough to call a halt to it ? There's the $64,000 question that only you can answer. And the wild card in the pack is your missus attitude. Chances are that she's not real happy with the sexual component of the deal (for entirely different reasons) either.
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Post by WindSister on May 18, 2018 22:32:25 GMT -5
Wrong question. There are lots of different kinds of love. If I stretch, I bet I can even find some form of love for my husband's ex. If you know me, you know that's quite the statement! As the song goes, "what's love got to do with it?" Expecting monogamy and then not putting out is immoral and actually pretty damn stupid. So, what's next? Live with it or do something about It?
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Post by northstarmom on May 19, 2018 8:33:21 GMT -5
A more important question is whether you still romantically love your refuser. If your answer is yes are you sure it’s not simply friendly affection you feel? If you really do still lust for a person who refuses you, why do you continue feeling that way?
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Post by bballgirl on May 19, 2018 9:46:51 GMT -5
^^^^THIS is it in a nutshell
Why do the refused continue to seek sex with someone that doesn't want sex with them. Accepting the truth brings peace and independence. Your spouse does not own your body you can do with it as you wish.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 19, 2018 10:43:53 GMT -5
Would your spouse say they still love you? Of course, it's just word salad that requires no action, and it keeps you under their control. The more you ask why? No sex or intimacy?, the more the deflection, and the DARVO techniques kick in. You are programmed to protect her, it's your male nature.Your supposed to take rejection and deal with it, without question. The one way street paved with double standards. She plays upon it and rejects your needs. She continues to get her way and will not have to face up to her own problems. Stall, delay, manipulate reverse the blame.
The more you give in " showing that it's okay for you to not want anything from her" the more power and control she has over you.
Your wife wants to act unlovable yet be loved? That doesn't work very well does it?
I found this today and it's fascinating to watch these feminine control tactics even though she is guilty of trying to kill him! Then watch her avoidance and "NO" when it comes to the money.
(For the woman on here who see this- i understand that men manipulate and can control their wives too.)
Exposing How Woman Manipulate Men :
PS. I failed to remember at the end that you only wanted a ladies answer. I'll delete this if you like?
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