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Post by DryCreek on May 24, 2018 23:24:44 GMT -5
greatcoastal, I empathize greatly with the fact that you drew the short straw and definitely got the bitch end of the stick in your deal. Your ex sounds like some of the worst in humanity, and it seems very reasonable for you to hold a huge grudge against her. But I gotta tell you... as a man... and with no candy coating here... you're letting the pendulum swing way too far into bitterness and intolerance. Standing up for yourself is one thing (and healthy); running roughshod over others is entirely different. Don't be that guy. The vast majority of women are nothing like your ex, but you're assuming "battle mode" as your default even in the grocery store aisle. That's guaranteed to find hostility where there was no mal intent - you'll create a self-fulfilling prophecy and the spiral will continue. I would suggest to find your happy place and spend a shitload of time in it to decompress, now that you've escaped. Painting, museums, fishing, meditation, whatever. Unload on a therapist. The outside world is nowhere near as hostile or controlling as what you've endured, and you need to recalibrate your point of reference if you want to achieve the life you hope for.
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Post by saarinista on May 25, 2018 0:51:24 GMT -5
greatcoastal , I empathize greatly with the fact that you drew the short straw and definitely got the bitch end of the stick in your deal. Your ex sounds like some of the worst in humanity, and it seems very reasonable for you to hold a huge grudge against her. But I gotta tell you... as a man... and with no candy coating here... you're letting the pendulum swing way too far into bitterness and intolerance. Standing up for yourself is one thing (and healthy); running roughshod over others is entirely different. Don't be that guy. The vast majority of women are nothing like your ex, but you're assuming "battle mode" as your default even in the grocery store aisle. That's guaranteed to find hostility where there was no mal intent - you'll create a self-fulfilling prophecy and the spiral will continue. I would suggest to find your happy place and spend a shitload of time in it to decompress, now that you've escaped. Painting, museums, fishing, meditation, whatever. Unload on a therapist. The outside world is nowhere near as hostile or controlling as what you've endured, and you need to recalibrate your point of reference if you want to achieve the life you hope for. As a lifelong feminist and a horny, heterosexual woman who strongly believes in red lipstick and high heels (when appropriate) , I (surprisingly) find myself annoyed with some women who call themselves "feminists" these days. Usually, they are younger women who never had to deal with the limitations imposed on women of my age (57) and have taken for granted the idea that they can be superwoman. Few career paths are closed to them, yet some still expect to be taken care of financially in marriage and divorce even if they earn more money, even if the husband stayed home with the kids or subjugated his career to hers, did lots of heavy lifting, blah blah. In short, they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to play the woman card when it suits them. They're (gasp) sometimes a bit spoiled from my viewpoint.
Fortunately, many/most women are NOT like that. And trust me, there are men who are jerks too. There are no guarantees or hard and fast rules in judging how people will be given their gender.
Don't give up, greatcoastal . You have JUST gotten out of a horrible marriage and divorce. There ARE nice women out there, I assure you. Some will be battered and damaged like you, but hey, that will give you something to bond over (though I don't recommend endless bitching about your ex-spouse.)
Above all, don't just listen to negative stuff about women. That tape made some points, but seemed a bit over the top to me. And don't just hang out with the guys. Maybe for a while, but not forever!
Don't give up on females. There are plenty of us who are hurting as bad-or worse-than you are. Man was not meant to be alone. Eventually, I hope you'll get back out there.
Hang in there, my friend. <3
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Post by elkclan2 on May 25, 2018 4:11:56 GMT -5
greatcoastal I will NEVER, EVER, EVER stop pointing out when you share HATE videos or links to sites that have been listed as hate sites by, for example, the Southern Poverty Law Centre.Some of the stuff you are sharing is no better than sharing links from StormFront or some other racist, misogynist site. That will not stop, because it is not ok and frankly it is harmful. If that video was about black people being (insert negative, hateful stereotype here) or any other group (insert negative, hateful stereotype) it would have been pulled straight away. Your attacks on my language, my parenting, my lifestyle are inappropriate. But whatever, I'm happy with my partner and happy that I can show my son what a good, respectful relationship looks like. My affairs? You want to go after people who have affairs - on this site??? Feel free.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 25, 2018 5:00:13 GMT -5
www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/03/26/fbi-dumps-southern-poverty-law-center/There. That took me all of one minute to find your only source (or fact) to be incorrect and biased. Once again you begin with your "opinion" by labeling a recording of an actual occurrence as "HATE". Then you attempt to bring in racism into it? The video I shared was from Ms. Diane Davison founder of The Lighthouse Project a resource and support center for the falsely accused. Which has nothing to do with this "HATE" that your opinion is falsely laced with. Whats not okay and what is harmful is your responses. Since you find my responses to be an attack, and inappropriate, then you are correct. Glad it offended you. Since they where you own words sent right back at you from your posts to me on Feb 07 2018 7:03 am. This shows that you live on a way one street paved with double standards. You make an excellent example of someone whom I choose to not be belittled, controlled and railroaded over by their "opinions". The exact type of manipulative control that I am hoping to avoid in my upcoming relationships with other men and woman. There are too many examples, on this sight alone ,of people on here who fell into the same SM right after leaving the first one. It's refreshing to see you respond without your constant profane language. It proves you are capable of it. Good for you, and the rest of us who read it.
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Post by elkclan2 on May 25, 2018 5:13:23 GMT -5
Breitbart? Really?
I'm already well aware of the history of the SPLC and both its good works and its (in my opinion) mistakes. For example AVFM - definitely a hate site, full of Neo-Nazis, women haters, etc. Quiliam Foundation, no, not a hate group.
I think it's good that you don't want to be belittled or railroaded. No one does. Neither do I. I really don't wish you ill - the hostility and anger you feel is going to hurt you most of all. At the same time, I will not be silent when hate propaganda toward women is shared in a place where I would like to come to seek support. And I don't think it's appropriate for you to be personally attacking me in the way that you do.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 25, 2018 5:14:02 GMT -5
My apology to flyingsolo@ for hijacking a good thread. Any other responses I have to give will be sent to others in private.
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Post by iceman on May 25, 2018 8:59:06 GMT -5
My wife says she loves me. She doesn’t seem to understand that there is a difference between loving someone and being in love. I can say I love my wife in a platonic way but I’m not in love with her. Haven’t been for several years. I’ve told my wife that but she just doesn’t get it. She says she loves me so she’s in love with me. Huh?? How can she say she’s in love with me when there is no intimacy, affection, or romance? Our relationship is more like roommates who also parent our children. My wife seems comfortable with this arrangement. I’m not!! Our relationship has devolved into something very similar to her parents’ relationship. I fear that it in her mind if her parents were somehow able to make it work and stay together for 50 plus years even though they might not have been happy then she should do the same. I don’t want just to make it work and stay together without regard for our happiness. I want a lot more than that!!
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Post by tirefire on May 25, 2018 18:23:54 GMT -5
greatcoastal "It's all about control. I will not be controlled like that again, even if it means remaining single until death, so be it." Hey, man. I hope you don't feel ganged up on here but several of us are worried for you. I don't post too often but I read a lot. I don't think I've had the messed up shithole marriage that you had but like anyone else I could easily sink into negative feelings. The reason I'm taking time to write this is that I'm worried. Bitterness will consume you. Do you have a right to be bitter? Hell, yeah. Should you exercise that right? Maybe for a day or two and only with friends around. Don't be bitter and alone. That is a dangerous combo. I hope that some time in your life you've had the chance to look into the eyes of an amazing woman. Feel her soft touch. Get lost in her. See her feeling the same. Get lost inside each other. Try to reach back to that time and realize that there are a _lot_ of good women out there. And there are some real pieces of work, both male and female. One of those women you will meet will be a great match for you and you'll be happy together. Happy like nothing else. You just have to let them in and be respectful to all of them. Looking out for you. TF
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Post by waiting4what on May 25, 2018 19:31:03 GMT -5
Interesting question, this is something that drove me crazy in my SM. My ex would tell me how much he loved me, please don’t leave, etc. But the words didn’t matter because they didn’t mean the same thing to both of us. I didn’t feel loved, and he probably didn’t either. Once when he was telling a mutual friend that he couldn’t believe that I’d left him when he loved me so much, she said “Really? It doesn’t even seem as if you even like her, much less love her”. Well said.
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Post by waiting4what on May 25, 2018 19:33:15 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, pretty much everyone here has been banged up, and I understand that you’re no exception. But as a fellow Christian, I have to speak up. The video that you posted on this thread is offensive to some of us. Several people have explained why it’s hurtful, especially in this forum where all of us rightly expect to be treated with human decency and respect.
You responded several times that you were glad that you had offended. That is such a wrong attitude for a Christian to have, much less to proudly say it.. “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.” 2 Timothy 2:24 NIV
Several people have mentioned how bitter you are right now. I get that, I’ve been bitter too. But we’re called to forgive and let go of resentment. That’s because anger and resentment eats us up from the inside. It doesn’t mean we should let anyone continue to abuse or take advantage of us, but we need to work toward letting go of the anger.
I’m several years out of my SM; from this perspective I can tell you that the surest way to heal is to turn your focus away from other people’s behavior that you can’t control or even really understand - your ex, your sister, your kids, Elkclan, me, etc. Focus on healing and growing yourself. Pointing fingers at ‘women’ or ‘controllers’ doesn’t help you with your main job, which is becoming the best man that you can be.
And please remember that since you’ve chosen to speak here loudly and often as a Christian, that’s your witness. When you are unkind and offensive, people may look at that and decide they want nothing to do with faith. “Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.” James 1:26 NIV
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Post by greatcoastal on May 25, 2018 20:48:08 GMT -5
Greatcoastal, pretty much everyone here has been banged up, and I understand that you’re no exception. But as a fellow Christian, I have to speak up. The video that you posted on this thread is offensive to some of us. Several people have explained why it’s hurtful, especially in this forum where all of us rightly expect to be treated with human decency and respect. You responded several times that you were glad that you had offended. That is such a wrong attitude for a Christian to have, much less to proudly say it.. “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.” 2 Timothy 2:24 NIV Several people have mentioned how bitter you are right now. I get that, I’ve been bitter too. But we’re called to forgive and let go of resentment. That’s because anger and resentment eats us up from the inside. It doesn’t mean we should let anyone continue to abuse or take advantage of us, but we need to work toward letting go of the anger. I’m several years out of my SM; from this perspective I can tell you that the surest way to heal is to turn your focus away from other people’s behavior that you can’t control or even really understand - your ex, your sister, your kids, Elkclan, me, etc. Focus on healing and growing yourself. Pointing fingers at ‘women’ or ‘controllers’ doesn’t help you with your main job, which is becoming the best man that you can be. And please remember that since you’ve chosen to speak here loudly and often as a Christian, that’s your witness. When you are unkind and offensive, people may look at that and decide they want nothing to do with faith. “Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.” James 1:26 NIV Please feel free to comment to me under messages. (especially about the other 98% of my post that gets ignored) I no longer want to participate in high jacking a thread.
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Post by csl on May 26, 2018 12:09:09 GMT -5
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Post by mescaline on May 26, 2018 14:40:46 GMT -5
My wife regularly says she loves me. It's the wrong kind of love though. I struggle to respond in kind, I hate being false. But I made this choice and I knew it wouldn't be easy. Cometh the hour...
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Post by JMX on May 26, 2018 22:54:51 GMT -5
greatcoastal - I am as red-pilled as they get. Your anger is because you have a faulty “picker”. Okay. Own it! That is sincerely on you. Because you were blinded by beauty, or money or lack of options - YOU picked wrong. Calling out DARVO (repeatedly) and posting ridiculous videos or citing BREITBART does not separate YOU from personal responsibility. You chose this. Sit with it, own it. Realize your “picker” was off and try really hard to figure out why. From the things you have written - someone like me - yearning for a man to take the fucking lead already - would never find you attractive. You cannot get past the fact that you were a dumbass and a shill. I want a man not a mouse. Take the lead and stop being such a martyr. It’s tiresome. Also (and please note this is not about spelling) please look up how to properly use quotes. Sincerely, JMX ❤️
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Post by greatcoastal on May 27, 2018 7:04:06 GMT -5
So, here's a bit of a curious question, that I am sure goes WAY deeper, but I'll ask it anyway:
For those of you that are married, but in a sexless marriage, if you asked your "refusing" spouse, would they indicate that they "loved you"?
Some background on why I ask:
I realize of course that you can love someone and not be "in love" with someone but I am asking out of curiosity. Currently my wife and I are in counseling (and have been for about 10 months) and I'm pretty sure we would both agree that we love each other (which is why we are still trying to work it out). In general, we get along well most of the time, but I really feel like roommates more than spouses whenever intimacy comes up. I cannot get over the flat outright refusal of my wife to engage in any attempt at physical intimacy, other than maybe a quick kiss or hug, with someone she claims to love. Believe me, I am all about pleasing her first, so I don't think that's the issue. However, when it comes to any attempt to move into something more physical, it quickly dies. I know this is the age old dilemma - men can do physical intimacy without emotional intimacy and women are generally in need of emotional intimacy first.
She claims that we aren't emotionally connected and therefore she can't engage in sexual intimacy (apparently of any kind). She's also stated that she just isn't interested in sex right now, and if she were, it would definitely be with me. Needless to say, the past five years or more have been virtually sexless (maybe three or four times per year, and the past fifteen months have been completely sexless). I would think if you are trying to work out a marriage and truly love someone, you would be willing to engage in activities which promote closeness and intimacy with each other, which foreplay and sex certainly do. I really try to understand her position, however, I struggle with it severely to the point where this is the biggest stress in my life right now, more so than my career, money or recently losing a parent. In my mind, if you really really really love someone and are committed to making a marriage work, you may need to step out of your comfort zone at times. She refuses to even go away with me for a weekend without the kids.
Our past sex life used to be pretty good, then came kids, careers, etc. Any attempts I've made to restart anything gets quickly shot down. This definitely isn't where I pictured my sex life with my wife ending up when we started down this path twenty plus years ago. I am wondering if we just aren't sexually compatible anymore. Am I just "why chasing" here or am I missing something here ladies? Would a spouse who truly "loves" you, continue to refuse you?
"Woman are generally in need of emotional intimacy first", " we aren't emotionally connected" See if this helps define things for you and helps with your quest for a solution. Michelle wiener Davis has videos loaded with great advise. The problem becomes when your spouse refuses to watch the parts that pertain to her "focusing on what works and doing more of it". It has to be a two way street. You may have reached a dead end, it's time to end things and be with someone else.
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