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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:53:54 GMT -5
Lots of good advice here, so you have my sympathy but I won't repeat what others have said. The only thing I would add is right now you still have some time before your kids leave home and more time before you are due to retire. But not all that much time. So if there is some possibility you might find yourself wanting/needing to divorce, you should get advice NOW and start thinking about it. At this point there may well still be things you can do to improve the situation or at least stop it getting worse. If you bury your hand in the sand for another few years while your kids go off to college and your retirement creeps ever closer, you might find your options at that point are less good than they are now. I hear you. The clock is ticking. I'd have a lot more flexibility 10 or even 5 years ago. If we're going to split it would be better for both of us to get it done sooner rather than later. The sad part is that I've had these thoughts off and on for almost the entire marriage but just kept hoping it would get better.
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:27:51 GMT -5
Welcome Iceman. It sounds like you're well aware of your options (stay, stay and outsource, go). I just came to say when I read these two sentences you wrote, "I'm a very sexual person. I crave physical contact, especially with somebody I love," I physically felt a twinge in my heart. I'm currently separated and thinking about dating some day. I very much want to have a relationship with a man who wants lots of physcial affection. Before I gave up for good I would try to cuddle on the couch but it made him too hot. I would playfully grab his butt in the kitchen and he'd slap me away. I would playfully look in on him while he is showering, which just led to being told to get out. It would be amazing to be with a man who instead of turning away from physical contact would reciprocate it and have these playful moments turn into amazing sex (we have no kids so I know it's not possible he was being short with me because someone might walk in on us.) When I tried those playful things she turned into a statue and there was no response. Later she would tell me that she didn't want to respond because she was worried that I would expect sex. That sort of said it all. I know longer even make the attempt. There's only so much rejection that I can endure.
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:20:20 GMT -5
I also did the stay-at-home mom thing, far beyond the years it was needed. I learned that it created an entitlement, and I'd be looking at 10 years of spousal support; in some jurisdictions, past a certain milestone (as little as 10 years, I've heard), spousal maintenance is for life. Just FYI, you don't have to continue to pay spousal support when you retire, nor can you be required to keep working past 65. At least in CA. So "for life" isn't quite what it sounds like. Also, if your spouse gets a decent job, spousal support can be reduced to reflect their new earning capacity. AND, if you've never heard of it, most judges will issue a Gavron warning to the supported spouse that tells them they need to make serious effort to find meaningful work, although it is expected that it could take someone quite a while to find work if they have been out of the full time work force for a decade or more. Of course, you would want to check and see if all this is true in your jurisdiction. That's the part I need to find out. What are the nuances of my state? I know every state is different.
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:18:13 GMT -5
It's true that you might have less financial security if you divorce. But when you look back on your life, will you ask yourself "why didn't I make more money?" Or "why didn't I spend my life with someone I truly loved and who loved me equally?" I think about that all the time. We only get one shot at life. I feel like this I'm at the crossroads. Do I have the courage to go for the unknown and look for happiness, and maybe relative poverty, or do I remain where it's safe and I know what to expect, and I have money. even though I'm accepting a life of unhappiness. When I read what I just wrote it seems like it should be so easy to make that decision. Go for happiness!!! But it's so hard ....
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:08:15 GMT -5
One thing you said really struck me....the part where you linked physical intimacy with emotional intimacy. I have now been out of my SM for almost 6 months. But for some reason, lately when I think about that relationship, I remember the ways he shut me out emotionally and put up a wall between us more vividly than I remember the lack of sexual interest. I feel that way as well at this point. Sure I miss the actual sex but even more I miss the emotional bond that comes with sex. she doesn't get that she's shutting me out emotionally when she's constantly rejecting me. She somehow expects me to remain emotionally bonded to her and we can get our intimacy back without sex.
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 12:56:19 GMT -5
The other two replies suggested this, but I'm going to be more emphatic: go talk to a lawyer ASAP. Just find out where you are and how deep the hole will get. In a lot of jurisdictions they will give a free initial consultation; see 2-3 for a good perspective. I also did the stay-at-home mom thing, far beyond the years it was needed. I learned that it created an entitlement, and I'd be looking at 10 years of spousal support; in some jurisdictions, past a certain milestone (as little as 10 years, I've heard), spousal maintenance is for life. I found at least one site for "divorce planning" that might be worth searching for. Among the guy's points was to be highly encouraging of your wife to find a good job and maximize her earning potential. Heck, depending on where you are in your career, switch roles, maybe finding a position you can do from home. DC I agree I need to get some actual legal advice. I've been putting it off hoping things would magically improve but that's not going to happen. I would like to think that I wouldn't stay in the situation for purely financial reasons but I need to know what the situation is rather than me speculating. That's just causing even more stress. I may not like the answers I get but at least I'll know where I stand. From time to time I have gently suggested to my wife that she reenter the workforce even on a part time basis but she's always resisted. I don't really know why. She doesn't seem terribly happy staying at home. She says she needs to feel more useful but she's still not working.
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Post by iceman on Jun 14, 2016 14:23:22 GMT -5
Hello everybody. I'm a newbie here. From what I've been reading my story seems to be pretty typical. That's comforting and sad at the same time. It's comforting to know that my situation, which I've been dealing with alone, is not unique. It's really sad to think that there are so many in my situation to some degree.
Anyway, here's my story. I've married to my current wife for 19 years. We have 2 children in high school. Really good kids. Nice house. Relatively comfortable financially. On the surface we look perfect. However, the reason I'm here is that my wife and I are not intimate in pretty much any way, physically or emotionally. I realize they go hand in hand. Physical intimacy leads to emotional intimacy and vice versa but neither is happening. I'd like to say that we were intimate at one time and we lost our way but the truth is that I don't think we ever were. Sure, before we were married and early on after we were married we had a sex life of sorts. It was never very satisfying for me but at least it existed. What I consider good sex apparently is different from what my wife considers good sex. Or maybe, and probably more likely, she thinks of sex as something she had to do to have children and do it often enough to placate me after the kids so I didn't become to upset. I'm a very sexual person. I crave physical contact, especially with somebody I love. I'm open to about anything at least once. My wife - not so much. I can count the number of times on one hand that she has initiated sex. And by initiated I mean she let me know that if I wanted to she would be agreeable to sex. As you can imagine what happened after such alluring come-ons was pretty pathetic. Not exactly starfish sex but usually pretty close. She always seemed repressed. I know of nothing in her past that would contribute to this. No abuse or anything.
It started going downhill shortly after we married. Actually, it was going downhill before but for some unknown reason I went through with the marriage anyway. What was I thinking?!?! I've come to the conclusion that we had no business getting married in the first place but here we are. I expected our marriage to be a lifelong love affair. I would have been happy being poor and in love. Apparently, her idea of marriage was more practical. She sees marriage in terms of kids, a house, money, etc. I have no problem with any of that. I just need the in love part of the relationship. The part where we can't keep our clothes on and our hands off of each other. She doesn't need or expect that part and finds the whole thing troublesome.
In the last 5 years or so the descent to sexlessness picked up steam to the point were we are virtually sexless. We have sex twice in the last 2 1/2 years. Both times initiated by me. Both times completely unsatisfactory. It was obvious she had no desire for it. In her mind she was doing me a favor. After the last time, I had had enough. I was no longer going to beg for sex. I was done. It's not been an issue but if she truly initiated I would try but I've lost all desire for her and really don't know if I could even get it up for her. Something snapped in me. I really, really want to have sex, really good sex, just not with her.
This is my second marriage. My first wife and I had a very satisfying sex life. Lots of sex. Energetic, kinky sex. I really miss that part of the marriage. The other parts weren't so good which is why we divorced. Nothing terrible, just not enough to stay together. Her idea I admit. We'd probably still be married if she hadn't dumped me. Just goes to show you that sex alone can't keep a marriage alive. Seemed like a lot more fun though.
i can say that I still love my wife. I'm just not in love with her. If she'd be honest I think she'd say the same thing about me. She says she misses me when I'm gone. I keep thinking 'Why?'. At this point I'm no picnic to be around. I've gone past anger to indifference. I don't want anything bad to happen to her. She is who she is and she's not going to change. And she shouldn't have to. She should be able to be who she is. It's one thing to make accommodations for your spouse. Everybody in a good marriage does that. It's quite another thing to change the fundamental way you are. Nobody should do that. If one finds out that you and your spouse are too far apart the mature and right thing to do is to part ways. Easy to say, tough to actually do.
I feel stuck. I've thought about divorce. I've thought about outsourcing, though I have to admit I'm not sure how to line up a partner for that even if I wanted to. I'm not sure outsourcing is for me. It would probably be fun for awhile but it would probably lead to more pain than it's worth. Might be fun to try however. I go back and forth on the subject.
Right now I stay in the marriage because of my kids and for financial reasons. I'd really like to stay until they are away to college. I like to think that we put up a good front and they don't realize how bad things are. The truth is that they may not know exactly what's going on but they know something is not right. I worry that staying together is showing them a really bad example of what marriage is. Maybe the better example would be to split up and show them it's okay to do so when a relationship just isn't working. I'd hate to see them stuck in a bad marriage and look to the example of their parents to stay together regardless of how bad it is.
Financially, I'm the sole source of income. My wife has a masters degree and had a very good corporate job when we decided she would quit to be a stay at home mom about 10 years ago. Seemed like the right thing to do at the time. Now, it seems like the worst idea ever. We're on track for a relatively comfortable retirement. We're certainly not wealthy but I don't think I'll have to bag groceries at the supermarket after I retire either. Splitting assets would put a serious kink in that plan for both of us. Then there's the whole issue of spousal support. That scares me more than anything. I don't know how that would play out. I really should get some legal advice.
All in all, I think I'm screwed.
So, that's me. I'm sorry I've rambled on for so long. I just needed get it off my chest to 'tell' somebody. Any advice or perspectives are welcome.
Thanks for reading.
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