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Post by iceman on Sept 6, 2020 8:16:03 GMT -5
Technically we still sleep together. But my wife never comes to bed before 3 am at the earliest and more than half the time she’s sleeping on the couch when I get up in the morning. When she does come to bed it’s usually closer to 5 am.
The sad, and telling, thing is that I really don’t care. Actually, I prefer she not come to bed. No, actually I prefer she come to bed about 10 min before I get up so I don’t have to see her in the morning.
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Post by iceman on Sept 4, 2019 13:21:19 GMT -5
No snuggling at all. I do miss it but I don't miss it with her. I quit initiating snuggling along with sex. Got tired of feeling like I was imposing on her when I did.
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Post by iceman on May 24, 2019 12:13:29 GMT -5
i know for me I too focused on sex initially and then I realized there was so much more wrong with my marriage, so much that it boggled my mind. At this point I don’t really think much at all about sex with my wife, or sex in general for that matter. Sure I’d like to have sex. Some of you may recall that I had a FWB arrangement with my ex for a while but it it has ended. The sex was nice but beyond the sex there was nothing else in the relationship and that was just unacceptable to both of us so we agreed to stop on good terms. That’s about where things are between my wife and me. Even if we agreed to start having sex again our marriage would still be utterly broken. This narrative is a bit hard for me to follow. Is the FWB relationship you had something with your 1st wife? How could you have a FWB relationship with the woman with whom you are in SM? Yes, the FWB relationship was with my first wife. I’m on wife #2. The point is trying to make that sex alone is not enough to save or break a marriage. In the case of my first wife our sex life was fabulous and our marriage was still broken. In the case of my current wife just reviving our sex life to something that’s acceptable won’t fix our broken marriage. There’s a lot going on in a marriage besides sex, or lack there of.
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Post by iceman on May 24, 2019 11:28:22 GMT -5
Anyone that shows up here is likely here to find a solution to their sexless marriage. I am here, and other sites. Occasionally, I see a post from one of us refused, or even a refuser, and I think, if only my ex had been like that, we could have made it work. That is just me, though, and only based on what the post reveals. Unfortunately, the vast majority are not like that. Most people know there is something wrong, but focus on the most obvious symptom. The sex. I know I was in this camp, too. Everything was great, except the sex. How blind I was. Completely agree. Sexlessness is both one of the symptoms and one of the causes of a bad marriage. Not the sole symptom or cause, but one of many symptoms and causes. Understanding that is crucial. if one focuses just on the sex IMHO one is not going to make much progress. i know for me I too focused on sex initially and then I realized there was so much more wrong with my marriage, so much that it boggled my mind. At this point I don’t really think much at all about sex with my wife, or sex in general for that matter. Sure I’d like to have sex. Some of you may recall that I had a FWB arrangement with my ex for a while but it it has ended. The sex was nice but beyond the sex there was nothing else in the relationship and that was just unacceptable to both of us so we agreed to stop on good terms. That’s about where things are between my wife and me. Even if we agreed to start having sex again our marriage would still be utterly broken.
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Post by iceman on May 22, 2019 9:33:36 GMT -5
Completely agree. It’s on each of us to take action and not expect our refuser to change or for an intervening cosmic event. I went for years waiting for my wife to have an epiphany and see the errors of her ways and beating myself up when that wasn’t happening. One day I had the epiphany that was she not going to change and I either accept that and trundle on with my unhappy existence or start actively dealing with the situation to improve my existence.
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Post by iceman on May 15, 2019 14:05:36 GMT -5
Iceman said: “What if my cancer comes back and i m all alone? “ What if your wife dies before you and you have had to spend years being her caregiver? That’s what happened to my mother after she refused to leave a miserable marriage. By the time my father died, mom was so tired and bitter that every night she prayed to die. Excellent point!!
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Post by iceman on May 15, 2019 9:48:07 GMT -5
Curious if anyone else had successful strategies for that in between time when you are still living together and still married but both aware it is over. northstarmom ? I know you had that with your ex but you were both pretty checked out, no? Anyone else? Remaking civil with each other and keeping everything very light seems to work for us. No deep serious conversations unless it’s absolutely necessary. The interactions between my wife and me are almost entirely transactional in nature. They are about what needs to done in the house, groceries to buy, or about our kids. Very little about ‘us’. Those conversations have already happened and there’s no point in venturing down that rabbit-hole again.
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Post by iceman on May 15, 2019 9:29:46 GMT -5
I never had what you call a "moment of clarity" if you are seeing it as some sort of epiphany. And it sure wasn't a "statement of hope". For me what it was was a recognition that I had reached "deal breaker status" and I was done with the why chasing, done with the quarterly resets, done with the pretense and fakery of being "happily married". I was out of gas and could go no further. One thing your post made me remember was my parking at the entrance of the driveway and just sitting in my truck because I didn't want to go in. Several times different neighbors stopped and asked if I was all right. Hard to answer that on a daily basis. They had to wonder if I was going off kilter. It was then that I saw the attorneys and began cobbling together my exit plan. Needless to say the actual sit down and vocalization of the "D" work wasn't how I had it pictured. Neither was the actual process of retaining the attorney, working out separation agreement, helping her find another place to live, living together while the loan and closure process inched along. Of coarse I had 2nd thoughts, doubts and self crimination for my part in the marriage not working. But now, after 3 and 1/2 yrs. out I know it was the right choice for me. After 6-8 months I felt secure in the decision. The right choice and how you go about implementing it will likely look far different. And to answer your last question, will that moment of clarity ever occur? To a greater or lesser degree, yes. It's just hard to say when. I frequently just sit in my car in garage. I pull in and turn off the motor but don’t get out for awhile. Sort of girding my loins for what lies ahead before I head into the house
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Post by iceman on May 14, 2019 9:49:36 GMT -5
Back to you: You have to figure out whether the companionship and concern and other benefits you get from being with your wife outweigh the stress, depression, low self esteem, etc. of being with her. For me, when I decided to divorce, it was like a burden was lifted off my shoulders. I radiated so much joy that acquaintances asked me what was going on in my life that was causing me to be so happy! I have never regretted my divorce. Not one time. The only time I missed my ex was one time when I wished he were around to change a ceiling light bulb. Then, I remembered the stepladder and forgot all about my ex. Thank you. Other than finances I can think of no benefits from being with my wife. I’m happier when she’s not around, much happier. I have feelings of sadness when I come home and she’s there. I make excuses not to be home. That should be enough. I have no doubt that I won’t regret my divorce in the long run, and mostly not even in the short term. I just need to keep telling myself that and move forward.
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Post by iceman on May 14, 2019 9:26:13 GMT -5
Brother iceman . I *knew* in about 2004 that my deal was a dead duck, and at that time I pretty much stopped my incessant "why chasing" and treated the marriage for what it was - essentially a Financial Partnership - and I was ok with that .... sort of !! By 2005 I was pretty sure that I was going to have to leave, at some point, but I didn't have the stomach for it at that time, it all looked "too hard" and the case to leave did not, at that time, appear to be in my longer term best interests. By 2006 (which turned out to be one of the worst and tumultuous years ever) the case to leave DID appear to be in my longer term best interests. I was about 55 then. But whereas the case to leave was pretty good, it wasn't good enough for me to action it. It still looked too hard. By 2007/8 I had seen a lawyer and done all the exit planning etc and had a theoretical plan to get out. I fucked about polishing the rough edges off my plan, refining it, fine tuning it etc. Essentially distracting myself from actioning the plan by concentrating on the finer detail of the plan. The case to leave by then was very strong that it was in my best longer term interests to get out. But short term, there was the monumental problem of the fight, ill will etc etc that was the big stumbling block. It was "easier" - short term - to stay, even though longer term it was NOT in my best interests to stay. Your post reads to me like you are currently in this same position. You know (or at least strongly suspect) that in the longer term of things, you'd be better off by leaving. But you also know that short term, such a move is likely to be ugly. Brother iceman, I think you have to keep doing the financial and emotional sums. Does the case to stay stand up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. Does the case to leave stand up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. It may take a while before the sums emerge with a pretty clear answer to that "what's in your longer term best interests" question. For me, 2009 proved pivotal. That's when the case to leave became overwhelmingly obvious. I left. Never regretted it, wish I'd done it earlier. But for me, getting from knowing my deal was a dead duck to actually getting out was a process measured in years rather than months. Thank you for this. This sounds very much like the ‘process’ I’ve been wading through over the last few years. I’ve known for several years that our marriage as an intimate loving relationship has been dead and it really is more of a business relationship centering around raising our children and maintaining a household. Not much romance in that but it seems to be enough for her. I’m going to have to be the bad guy and file. She’s comfortable with living in an unhappy relationship as long as the ‘business’ end of the marriage are in good order. That is more important to her than a romantic relationship, which pretty much says all that I need to know about our marriage. I’ve done the sums you suggested many times. On balance I know in the long term I’ll be better off leaving. I need to keep keep reminding myself that.
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Post by iceman on May 14, 2019 9:04:30 GMT -5
iceman I am going to echo what others have said that this sounds like a normal stage in the process. Few of us hit a moment and then act on it immediately. Sometimes our partners step in and change the trajectory (i.e. leave or initiate divorce). Other than that I think what you are talking about- the SM divorce shuffle if you will, is the norm. I am in this shuffle too. There are other factors for me but I am right now really coming to terms that I am internally doing that shuffle as well. It is really sucky. However, if you will stretch your thinking for a second, few things that really require work and effort to change happen overnight or in a straight line. Birth for example- a series of progress, and lulls, progress and lulls. Really, any self improvement that you may engage in- motivation with movement alternating with slipping into complacency and old patterns. I think as long as you keep asking yourself the real questions and keep making choices to be happy with who you are, you will end up with the clarity and movement you need. I hope so. Thank you for this. I do keep having to ask myself the real questions and when I do that it seems so obvious. My reasons for staying have nothing really to do with our actual relationship. That is dead. I think we both know it. The reasons for staying are more rooted in fear and the lack of desire to do all the hard work that comes with a really meaningful change. I need to keep moving forward.
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Post by iceman on May 13, 2019 15:32:42 GMT -5
I’m curious. When you made the decision to actually leave and divorce your spouse was it a ‘big bang’ realization, a moment of clarity when it was absolutely clear what you needed to do or was it a decision where proceeding forward was more a statement of hope that your doing the right thing but with a good deal of doubt that you might be fucking up your life in monumental fashion?
I find myself in the latter situation. I have moments when I feel certain of the path I must take but within a few hours or a day doubts start creeping in. I have a plan. I’m waiting for my daughter to graduate from high school next month before pulling the trigger. I dont want the ensuing turmoil to affect her final days of schoolwork nor make her graduation an awkward affair with warring parents overshadowing what should be a very happy time for her.
The last time I wrote I was going to see a lawyer to find out just how financially painful a divorce would be for me. It was about what I thought. My state is pretty squishy about such matters but his best guess was that I’ll be on the hook to provide her with about $3500/month until I retire. Painful but doable. I feel like I’m moving forward but I lose momentum. I start thinking about how much easier it would be to stay. How much better off I’ll be financially. How I won’t have to tell the kids. How at least I would have a companion to go thru life with even though our relationship is utterly unsatisfying. There’s no guarantee that I’ll be able to find somebody new. What if my cancer comes back and i m all alone? And then my resolve sets in again and I feel like I’m getting back on the right track. Sort of a two steps forward and one step back scenario.
I want to have that moment of clarity but it’s nowhere to be found. Is this normal?
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Post by iceman on Feb 10, 2019 8:34:35 GMT -5
As above, a divorce is a process of negotiation. Broadly, in one of 3 ways. #1 - where you (and your spouse) thrash out an agreement pretty much between the two of you - under the guidance of your lawyers. #2 - where you (and your spouse) can't come to an agreement, in which case your respective lawyers become far more involved in negotiating a settlement. #3 - where your respective lawyers can't come up with an agreement, in which case an independent person, a judge, will mandate a settlement upon you. In my jurisdiction, method #3 happens in only about 20% of cases. Personally, I think that method #3 is to be avoided... The judges call is a matter you have no control over. The process will be way more expensive than method #1 or #2. You might be better served by conceding a few things as per method #1 or #2 than taking your chances on method #3. I hope that we can avoid #3 as well. I really think that we’ll be able to work out an agreement ourselves, maybe with the help of a mediator. I may be terribly optimistic and naive, I realize.
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Post by iceman on Feb 8, 2019 8:53:12 GMT -5
Apart from the above suggestions, reckon you need to have two time frames in mind. #1 - getting divorced now, asap. #2 - getting divorced in (say) another 3 years Basically to see if there is any advantage in acting now, compared to later. I think it needs to be ASAP, maybe not from a financial perspective but from a personal perspective. I think you know I have prostate cancer which, while I’m doing I’m doing well and it’s in remission, gives me a very different perspective on life and how I want to spend what remaining time I have, which is hopefully a long time. I need to get to a happy place ASAP.
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Post by iceman on Feb 8, 2019 8:47:50 GMT -5
Congrats on taking a step forward. It's so hard to finally get to that point. What to ask / bring: I Your financial info (bank accounts, investment, retirement, wages), real property assets, health insurance info (depending on where you reside), any other assets and their values, including collectable or antiques. I would also say have in mind your idea of a "fair split" of your marital assets. May not be what the law says you should / must do, but will give your attorney of where you are starting from. If yoi have kids, think about what kind of custody / visitation schedule you would like to have as well. Good luck to you. Hard as it is, anything (IMO) is better than being stuck in limbo or stuck where you don't belong. Yeah, I’ve finally come to the conclusion that broke and happy would be an improvement over my current situation. Hope it doesn’t come to the broke part but if it does it does.
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