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Post by wewbwb on Aug 5, 2016 5:15:22 GMT -5
I am sure there is an argument that having an affair can drive people crazy (especially if it feels like your AP is leading you on). But that surely doesn't mean you have to be crazy in the first place to be passionate about sex. Does it?  Define crazy. Hello. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 5:22:13 GMT -5
wewbwb hi yourself :-) I think I see the definition in my mirror but I thought it was worth asking. Does crazy mean dangerous, in which case I don't qualify afterall.
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Post by JMX on Aug 5, 2016 5:35:33 GMT -5
Okay - I am going to play devil's advocate here. It *may* actually be true. A single, not-ever-married woman hooks up with a professional married man. They have hot sex and share their deep, inner-most secrets during lunch hours and "after hours business meetings". She feels bonded. She wants that all the time. I can appreciate that. Why settle when you're the single one? You have this "love". Ha! I had a potential affair partner that was freaked out that I wanted to end my situation. He called it an - "inequitable situation". He was right. If you truly want more out of your life than being someone's side dish, and "whenever I can get to you" girl, then, it would follow that it would never work. Never. Living life is not living in the waiting room for one to come around and see the light. You've just given them their cake. And it hurts watching them eat the entire fucking cake. I am sure there is an argument that having an affair can drive people crazy (especially if it feels like your AP is leading you on). But that surely doesn't mean you have to be crazy in the first place to be passionate about sex. Does it? No. But when a person also becomes emotionally attached to someone that is married, it is a recipe for disaster. I am not sure I could separate sex from emotions, so maybe I am a little unhinged 😉 For example, my lovely, I don't think I could sleep with you because I like you - but I would not sleep with anyone I didn't like either... I guess - although I don't think I am crazy - I know myself well enough to know that an emotional attachment goes hand-in-hand with a good sex life for me and I am selfish, I want it all. My only outsourcing option would be if I decided to stay in my marriage and the outsourcing partner did as well. I want to be the girl with the most cake. Something tells me Glen Close's character in that movie is also the girl that wants the most cake. Were she also married, there would not have been the boiling of the bunnies. 🐰🍲 |
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Post by unmatched on Aug 5, 2016 6:32:32 GMT -5
JMX I think forming an emotional attachment to someone you have sex with is pretty normal (especially if it happens more than once) - I would argue that it is even what we are wired to do. Crazy is when you start boiling bunnies in the hope that it might bring somebody closer to you. And when you start hurting other people because you are in pain yourself. Which I guess is how I would answer @helentishappy's question as well. And I think it is great that you know yourself well enough to not want to get involved with somebody when it is only going to make your life harder, and when it is not what you really want. That bodes very well for your future, wherever that happens to be 
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Post by JMX on Aug 5, 2016 6:53:13 GMT -5
Why thank you, unmatched! I am happy with my perspective on this point. And, I don't think I would actually boil bunnies or hurt anyone, simply because I have already gone there in my mind of it being a possibility. Playing devil's advocate, I can see how she got from point A - to crazy town. By having those thoughts and not wanting to be that person (consciously), I think I am actually in the clear. One of my potential outsourcing partners last year was married and planned to stay that way. I was pretty confident that while I liked him and could see myself in that arrangement, it wouldn't work because I figured he would be the one boiling bunnies. He was in love with me in high school, and carried that torch through college too. Many a night in high school was spent hanging out together while he cried to me about the losers I was dating and why not him? He was my best friend and I couldn't even go to a dance with him, hug him and not get his hopes up. I didn't see him for years (it was too hard to not be able to be myself with him) and in college at a football game we saw each other where he again cried to me that he couldn't have sex with his fiancé because all he thought about was me. It baffled me that the "no contact" over the years still had him worked up. When we talked last year, he was very sure he could compartmentalize himself because he is NEVER getting divorced (he is a youth minister 😳). I figured he had a 50/50 shot of being able to do that - I could be totally crap in bed and he would realize he doesn't actually love me, or, he would be boiling bunnies at my house. Best to not even go there. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Aug 5, 2016 7:42:46 GMT -5
Ah, the old "One That I Could Never Have" situation. You made the right call- it probably would have destroyed him (I was that guy once upon a time).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 8:02:44 GMT -5
[quote author=" unmatched"[/quote]I don't know. The over-riding message of that movie seems to be that you should stay with your stable wife (presumably even if you marriage degenerates to being room-mates) because women who really like sex are all over-emotional and probably psychotic. Please tell me that isn't true!!![/quote][ Not true, unmatched! You're safe to leave your stable, frigid wife. There are plenty of emotional (but not overly so), non-psychotic, bunny-loving women who really like sex and would sign contracts to have it regularly!! Not that I'm offering or anything. I'm still working my way up to leaving a frigid husband. Getting closer... |
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Post by wewbwb on Aug 5, 2016 8:05:10 GMT -5
wewbwb hi yourself :-) I think I see the definition in my mirror but I thought it was worth asking. Does crazy mean dangerous, in which case I don't qualify afterall. Crazy, to me, simply means - towards the ends of the bell curve. Both extremes. "Crazy" on one end is listening to the dog who told you to kill people. "Crazy" on the other end is looking a bumble bee and saying "yeah, I can express that" and writing "Flight of the Bumblebee" (Which actually DOES sound like how a bumblebee flies - how the hell did he pull that off?) Or Van Gogh looking up at the stars and painting "Starry Night" - A painting that literally changed the way I see the world. So, in my opinion, crazy CAN mean dangerous but doesn't have to. I am not sure who said this but I once heard -"Genius is often just 'crazy' that succeeded" (Robin Williams is an example - both ends of the bell curve.) So I'm not really sure that it matters that you think you see it in your mirror. What matters is if you listen to the dog or pick up a brush. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 8:47:18 GMT -5
I've wondered if a little bit of "crazy" doesn't go hand-in-hand with "passionate". Some of the more passionate cultures seem to be capable of very vocal arguments... And yet, they are at least communicating their grievances, and don't seem to harbor resentment once the fight is over. Is this a fair trade for having passion in the bedroom? Culturally, do we go stagnant in the bedroom because we've been conditioned to "not rock the boat" and "grit our teeth and bear it"? I'm going to agree with this, DC. Wholeheartedly in fact. (Does that mean I'll have to cop to being a little crazy?) Let's change the terminology and swap out 'crazy' for intense or passionate or maybe ardent (yes, I had to use a thesaurus for that one). I like that last one best though. People with a depth and range of emotion have the capacity to feel, express, and live everything more intensely. It's the difference between riding the slow-moving tram at the amusement park with all the old decrepit folks and riding the high-speed roller coaster with the thrill-seekers. The latter is scary at times, but it also allows for loads more fun. The former, well, it's safe, but there's not much room for fun or excitement on that slow tram, is there? I don't actually like roller coasters or loud arguments. I have no need for either. But, in a given day, I'll shed tears and laugh hysterically just because I can. I'm alive! And I bring passion to my life. Because it's fun to be passionate! Even if it means I swing from despondent to exhilarated in a given day, my life is full to bursting with feeling. And I love it that way. Emotions are a natural human expression. In our culture, people tend to numb out - on alcohol, drugs, TV, food, etc. I aim to feel it all and enoy the ride. Lately, with my "grab joy" mantra, I feel more alive than ever. Life is great. Even in my situation - SM and all. It's from this vantage point of ardor ('nother good one) that I'll work my way out and away from this mess! |
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 5, 2016 9:39:48 GMT -5
I've wondered if a little bit of "crazy" doesn't go hand-in-hand with "passionate". Some of the more passionate cultures seem to be capable of very vocal arguments... And yet, they are at least communicating their grievances, and don't seem to harbor resentment once the fight is over. Is this a fair trade for having passion in the bedroom? Culturally, do we go stagnant in the bedroom because we've been conditioned to "not rock the boat" and "grit our teeth and bear it"? I'm going to agree with this, DC. Wholeheartedly in fact. (Does that mean I'll have to cop to being a little crazy?) Let's change the terminology and swap out 'crazy' for intense or passionate or maybe ardent (yes, I had to use a thesaurus for that one). I like that last one best though. People with a depth and range of emotion have the capacity to feel, express, and live everything more intensely. It's the difference between riding the slow-moving tram at the amusement park with all the old decrepit folks and riding the high-speed roller coaster with the thrill-seekers. The latter is scary at times, but it also allows for loads more fun. The former, well, it's safe, but there's not much room for fun or excitement on that slow tram, is there? I don't actually like roller coasters or loud arguments. I have no need for either. But, in a given day, I'll shed tears and laugh hysterically just because I can. I'm alive! And I bring passion to my life. Because it's fun to be passionate! Even if it means I swing from despondent to exhilarated in a given day, my life is full to bursting with feeling. And I love it that way. Emotions are a natural human expression. In our culture, people tend to numb out - on alcohol, drugs, TV, food, etc. I aim to feel it all and enoy the ride. Lately, with my "grab joy" mantra, I feel more alive than ever. Life is great. Even in my situation - SM and all. It's from this vantage point of ardor ('nother good one) that I'll work my way out and away from this mess! Yep, crazy lady, that's kinda where I'm going with the idea. "Calm, cool, collected, even-keeled, rational, stable" all sound like great attributes, but they're the antithesis of "passionate", which is instead motivated by inspiration and emotion instead of logic. So, I'm thinking that being passionate means not just great emotion, but also a little bit of irrational behavior - the person who will take a risk and embark on an adventure into the unknown. The former personality would run a tight ship; the latter would lead you into new territories. So, I'm not sure either extreme is healthy, but... I think a little bit of irrational behavior ("crazy") is a natural consequence of being passionate, and we can't expect to have one without a bit of the other. And yes, today there's a rampant culture of living vicariously through characters on TV or games, instead of living our own adventure. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 10:05:26 GMT -5
DryCreek, that's "ardent lady" not crazy. Get it straight fella! ;-)
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Post by smilin61 on Aug 5, 2016 10:43:04 GMT -5
Yep, crazy lady, that's kinda where I'm going with the idea. "Calm, cool, collected, even-keeled, rational, stable" all sound like great attributes, but they're the antithesis of "passionate", which is instead motivated by inspiration and emotion instead of logic. So, I'm thinking that being passionate means not just great emotion, but also a little bit of irrational behavior - the person who will take a risk and embark on an adventure into the unknown. The former personality would run a tight ship; the latter would lead you into new territories. So, I'm not sure either extreme is healthy, but... I think a little bit of irrational behavior ("crazy") is a natural consequence of being passionate, and we can't expect to have one without a bit of the other.And yes, today there's a rampant culture of living vicariously through characters on TV or games, instead of living our own adventure. Hmmm...I have to weigh in on this one. I may be an odd duck, but I don't think being "calm, cool, collected, rational, stable" and being able to feel emotion and passion are mutually exclusive. I'm certainly seen as both. I've been told many times that my quiet strength and calm are reassuring AND that my passion for those things I value is refreshing. I have friends and family who will seek me out during times of stress/upset because of my calm demeanor. And I have those same folks come to me when they need someone who can be a passionate advocate for them. Indeed, I've made a living using all of those characteristics, and found those jobs to be ridiculously easy and fulfilling. I also have a (very private) side of me that is capable of letting go of everything else and just FEELING. It isn't a crazy or irrational feeling of losing control, it is an intense, passionate, no inhibitions way of sharing everything I am with someone I love and trust. Not that I mind being called crazy, I just don't think its about my calm/passionate nature!  |
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 5, 2016 10:46:44 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with this, DC. Wholeheartedly in fact. (Does that mean I'll have to cop to being a little crazy?) Let's change the terminology and swap out 'crazy' for intense or passionate or maybe ardent (yes, I had to use a thesaurus for that one). I like that last one best though. People with a depth and range of emotion have the capacity to feel, express, and live everything more intensely. It's the difference between riding the slow-moving tram at the amusement park with all the old decrepit folks and riding the high-speed roller coaster with the thrill-seekers. The latter is scary at times, but it also allows for loads more fun. The former, well, it's safe, but there's not much room for fun or excitement on that slow tram, is there? I don't actually like roller coasters or loud arguments. I have no need for either. But, in a given day, I'll shed tears and laugh hysterically just because I can. I'm alive! And I bring passion to my life. Because it's fun to be passionate! Even if it means I swing from despondent to exhilarated in a given day, my life is full to bursting with feeling. And I love it that way. Emotions are a natural human expression. In our culture, people tend to numb out - on alcohol, drugs, TV, food, etc. I aim to feel it all and enoy the ride. Lately, with my "grab joy" mantra, I feel more alive than ever. Life is great. Even in my situation - SM and all. It's from this vantage point of ardor ('nother good one) that I'll work my way out and away from this mess! Yep, crazy lady, that's kinda where I'm going with the idea. "Calm, cool, collected, even-keeled, rational, stable" all sound like great attributes, but they're the antithesis of "passionate", which is instead motivated by inspiration and emotion instead of logic. So, I'm thinking that being passionate means not just great emotion, but also a little bit of irrational behavior - the person who will take a risk and embark on an adventure into the unknown. The former personality would run a tight ship; the latter would lead you into new territories. So, I'm not sure either extreme is healthy, but... I think a little bit of irrational behavior ("crazy") is a natural consequence of being passionate, and we can't expect to have one without a bit of the other. And yes, today there's a rampant culture of living vicariously through characters on TV or games, instead of living our own adventure. I agree with you DC. I think there does need to be a little of the risk taker, challenging oneself, doing something irrational, what others might call "crazy". Crazy is all about perspective as long as you are safe and not hurting anyone else. But yes a little "crazy" does help to lend itself to passion and fun. I would still like to think of myself as stable, rational, responsible, etc. and in my younger years I don't think I was as adventurous as I would be now, lord if only I had my twenty year old knees now! Uggh! But that stepping outside of the norm or just doing something different can make things very passionate and exciting. In the past 6 months since my divorce, sex with my AP has become more frequent, more passionate, more adventurous. One time while I was at my sons baseball game, my AP met me in an empty parking lot, I told the other parents I wasn't feeling well and needed to use the restroom. We had sex in his car, it was exciting, passionate, when it was over I realized there was a maintenance truck not too far probably we gave someone a show. The old me would have never done that. People I know in my real life would think I'm "crazy". They wouldn't even believe I would do such a thing. I don't care people can think what they want - it was exciting, fun, made me happy and it made me feel wanted and desired. Then I went back to the field, a little flush, sort of sweaty and people probably thought I was sick. So yes I do think there needs to be a little risk taker/ crazy in a person to be able to let go, be uninhibited and be able to ENJOY passion. |
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Post by wewbwb on Aug 5, 2016 10:53:27 GMT -5
I am from this culture. I understand this thinking.
First and Always - We love each other. Period. Full stop. We can and will find a way ALWAYS.
Every single thing within reason- ("reasonable" here is defined by the partners) is secondary.
Yell at me.
Scream my faults and mistakes at me.
But just remember the whole time you are doing it,
There is no one else I rather sleep next to at the end of the day.
"Amore" - doesn't JUST mean "love" - It means devotion, enthusiasm, a predilection, and yes also sex.
But- The whole way of thinking is different -
Why CAN"T you fight and scream with someone you love and who loves you and know that is all it is? The one person is this world my partner SHOULD be allowed to "lose it" with IS me.
If you both really do love each other completely and neither one is going anywhere does it really matter at the end of the day how you communicate?
Or is it more important that you do?
Please note: I have not said that I AGREE with this - I just understand the thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 13:13:44 GMT -5
Not getting laid often enough can MAKE you crazy....if you weren't already there.
Anti-outsourcers worry that an AP will become homicidal. I worry that people who go along with the no-sex lifestyle will become suicidal. Or self-destructive in some other way.
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