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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 20, 2016 17:37:13 GMT -5
"It's simply a man and woman thing!"
That was what the couple's therapist said when the subject of our lack of physical intimacy finally came up in today's session, in the last ten minutes.
Basically, according to she said, men crave physical intimacy, while women need to feel emotional intimacy to feel close. She then went on with suggestions to my wife as to how she could start initiating more physical contact. I tried but couldn't get a word in edgewise to point out that there had been a lack of emotional intimacy on her part for a long time, or that she kept me at arm's length and wasn't receptive to any attempts at emotional intimacy on my part.
At the beginning of the session I went full force, leaving everything out on the table. I talked about being depressed and feeling lonely for so long, about how I felt more like a caretaker than a spouse, about my wife's health issues and needing lots of time to herself. I admitted that it had been since before the wedding that I'd truly been happy, that I couldn't really remember the last time I'd been happy to see her when she came home.
I didn't get a chance to talk about any of the things my wife said on Saturday, about her telling me she was keeping me at arm's length because she was afraid of losing me, nor the part about her warning me that I was too good for her.
She didn't volunteer any of that either. We did, however, talk a lot about how we communicate and about needing to talk to each other.
When the session was done, she left quickly before I could talk to her and I haven't heard anything else from her since then. I'm planning on going home tomorrow, so I guess we'll see what happens then.
I'm trying to keep an open mind that the sessions will get more productive, and I'm going to ask my wife if she'll start up individual therapy again, with somebody different, since her old therapist is the one we saw today.
And the possibility of my wife still being depressed didn't come up on the part of the therapist either.
Not sure if I'm expecting too much too fast, but the whole thing felt rather anticlimactic. I guess we'll see what happens.
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Post by unmatched on Jul 20, 2016 18:39:18 GMT -5
There is a big limit to what you can get done in an hour. I have found counselling to be very long and drawn out, I would much rather do a whole afternoon or a whole day and just thrash it all out. But I know sometimes my wife has found even an hour to be quite intense.
I have no idea if your therapist is right or not about the man/woman thing - I suspect it is true as often as not. BUT then you need to focus your whole therapy on how to achieve more emotional intimacy in your marriage, since your wife clearly doesn't want that either right now. I suspect that might be a more productive line of approach because it is very hard for her to then dodge it and just say she isn't feeling it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 19:20:42 GMT -5
That therapist would have lost me at that man/woman thing crap. It's a sexless marriage thing!
You're wasting your time.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 20, 2016 19:39:07 GMT -5
cagedtiger, just a word of caution... Therapy is a very effective stall tactic. I encourage trying it, but be very cautious about letting it drag on perpetually. It can take years to fix some of these screwed up mindsets, and that's if she wants to cooperate. Try to get a frequent cadence at first, like weekly. Don't be too quick to give up - it can take 3-4 sessions just to paint the current picture. And you gotta be there to paint that picture, or it won't reflect your beefs. But also don't let it go for more than perhaps 90 days without seeing some progress. Find a counselor that she will be receptive to listening to, and that you feel her style and experience fit your concerns. I.e., this is for her benefit, but you need to be involved.
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Post by baza on Jul 20, 2016 22:34:59 GMT -5
We are talking about two individuals here, who are also in a joint dynamic.
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Probably, both the individuals are carrying some baggage, nuances of behaviour, "issues" of some sort to some degree or other.
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Under such circumstances, *joint counselling* is of extremely limited value, as joint counselling can not fix individual issues.
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However, if EACH individual gets involved in INDIVIDUAL counselling, to address their specific INDIVIDUAL issues and works their arse off in this endevour, THEN joint counselling can be of value. Of great value actually.
But joint counselling needs two (2) pretty functional people to come to the table.
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So it is best for the individuals to sort their own shit out first.
THEN, joint counselling has at least some chance of providing value.
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My recollection is that *you* the individual are already going down this path of individual counselling (apologies if I have that wrong), so you are some chance of bringing a functional person to a joint table.
But (again as I recall) your missus is NOT working on her individual stuff, and so has no hope of bringing a functional person to a joint table.
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Whether you want to continue with joint counselling without the foundation of individual counselling underpinning it, is entirely your choice of course. You will almost certainly learn 'something' out of it, but how helpful that 'something' might be is open to debate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 22:40:50 GMT -5
We are talking about two individuals here, who are also in a joint dynamic. - Probably, both the individuals are carrying some baggage, nuances of behaviour, "issues" of some sort to some degree or other. - Under such circumstances, *joint counselling* is of extremely limited value, as joint counselling can not fix individual issues. - However, if EACH individual gets involved in INDIVIDUAL counselling, to address their specific INDIVIDUAL issues and works their arse off in this endevour, THEN joint counselling can be of value. Of great value actually. But joint counselling needs two (2) pretty functional people to come to the table. - So it is best for the individuals to sort their own shit out first. THEN, joint counselling has at least some chance of providing value. - My recollection is that *you* the individual are already going down this path of individual counselling (apologies if I have that wrong), so you are some chance of bringing a functional person to a joint table. But (again as I recall) your missus is NOT working on her individual stuff, and so has no hope of bringing a functional person to a joint table. - Whether you want to continue with joint counselling without the foundation of individual counselling underpinning it, is entirely your choice of course. You will almost certainly learn 'something' out of it, but how helpful that 'something' might be is open to debate. They might even chase down some whys! They'll still be sexless but they'll know why. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 20, 2016 23:26:48 GMT -5
They might even chase down some whys! They'll still be sexless but they'll know why. Well, they will *think* they know why. I would bet good money that's rarely right. Revisionist history. (Rakes the muck looking for a convenient yet indisputable "wrong" in the past... "Yup, lookee there - that right there is the reason why, and it's entirely your fault.") |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 21, 2016 8:00:45 GMT -5
...and still haven't heard anything from her. I'm still planning on going home tonight after work, so we'll see what happens.
I'm wondering if she's mad at me for my realization and admission during the session that I haven't been truly happy in our relationship since well before the wedding...
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 21, 2016 8:03:58 GMT -5
As for the "why's" as to the reason for our sexlessness, I looked straight at her when the therapist started in about emotional intimacy- I thought she'd have used the opportunity to mention her remarks to me from Saturday (I keep you at arm's length because I've always been afraid of losing you, and that way it'll hurt less).
Nope, nothing.
I'll bring it up with my therapist next week.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 8:30:21 GMT -5
They might even chase down some whys! They'll still be sexless but they'll know why. Well, they will *think* they know why. I would bet good money that's rarely right. Revisionist history. (Rakes the muck looking for a convenient yet indisputable "wrong" in the past... "Yup, lookee there - that right there is the reason why, and it's entirely your fault.") Why of course, that's why we chase whys, to figure out how our spouse ruined our marriage. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 8:40:47 GMT -5
As for the "why's" as to the reason for our sexlessness, I looked straight at her when the therapist started in about emotional intimacy- I thought she'd have used the opportunity to mention her remarks to me from Saturday (I keep you at arm's length because I've always been afraid of losing you, and that way it'll hurt less). Nope, nothing. I'll bring it up with my therapist next week. No joke straight up man to man eyeball to eyeball werd if she's not fully engaged in this you're going to be running yourself ragged giving her what she says she needs in order to give you what you need...and in about three months you're going to realize you're still not getting what you need. And the already asymmetrical balance of power will shift even more to her. All this with the caveat that I question whether your therapist understands sexless marriages to begin with. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jul 21, 2016 8:52:24 GMT -5
...and still haven't heard anything from her. I'm still planning on going home tonight after work, so we'll see what happens. I'm wondering if she's mad at me for my realization and admission during the session that I haven't been truly happy in our relationship since well before the wedding... You bet she'll be mad. She gonna whoop your ass. But at least that will show some feeling! Might even start a conversation....being optimistic! X |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 21, 2016 8:55:49 GMT -5
...and still haven't heard anything from her. I'm still planning on going home tonight after work, so we'll see what happens. I'm wondering if she's mad at me for my realization and admission during the session that I haven't been truly happy in our relationship since well before the wedding... You bet she'll be mad. She gonna whoop your ass. But at least that will show some feeling! Might even start a conversation....being optimistic! X If history is any indicator, she'll hide in the bedroom watching Real Housewives of _____ until I go sleep in the office. |
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Post by adventura on Jul 21, 2016 9:18:07 GMT -5
From the brief couples therapy I've done and stories I've heard, therapists start out with "It's a man/woman thing" by default. It's a way for them to get a broad overview of the relationship and also find out whether it's a communication style problem or something deeper.
The bad therapists stop there; the good ones look for other angles once they get to know both partners better and have built some trust. The most common complaint in couples therapy is one partner feels the therapist is taking the other partner's side, so I can see why they strive to be neutral.
No doubt there are SM's that can be fixed with better communication. These are the ones that started out with good, frequent sex but froze up due to conflicting schedules, exhaustion, and other nonsexual conflicts between the partners that can be resolved with discussion.
If one partner's goal is to avoid communication (and therefore avoid intimacy), then sorting it out in couples therapy seems like the hard way to go about it. But maybe it will help you, CT, gain insight on the marriage that you didn't have before.
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Post by unmatched on Jul 21, 2016 9:33:44 GMT -5
...and still haven't heard anything from her. I'm still planning on going home tonight after work, so we'll see what happens. I'm wondering if she's mad at me for my realization and admission during the session that I haven't been truly happy in our relationship since well before the wedding... Ugh ... Good luck! |
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