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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 23, 2016 12:36:45 GMT -5
"don't you have any close friends who are happily married?" She asked me this morning.
"Well of course I do," I replied.
I left off the rest of my thought, "but they actually go out and do things and like being around each other."
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 23, 2016 15:30:43 GMT -5
"don't you have any close friends who are happily married?" She asked me this morning. "Well of course I do," I replied. I left off the rest of my thought, "but they actually go out and do things and like being around each other." At the risk of starting an argument, perhaps you shouldn't withhold the rest of the story. I think it's pulling punches, turning the other cheek, and biting our tongue that has got us to where we are. I know that my desire to keep the peace has overridden the desperate need to bring issues to a head. Sometimes you have to throw rocks at the snake to force it into the light so you can kill it. Hazardous, but necessary for progress. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 23, 2016 15:34:03 GMT -5
"don't you have any close friends who are happily married?" She asked me this morning. "Well of course I do," I replied. I left off the rest of my thought, "but they actually go out and do things and like being around each other." At the risk of starting an argument, perhaps you shouldn't withhold the rest of the story. I think it's pulling punches, turning the other cheek, and biting our tongue that has got us to where we are. I know that my desire to keep the peace has overridden the desperate need to bring issues to a head. Sometimes you have to throw rocks at the snake to force it into the light so you can kill it. Hazardous, but necessary for progress. It's already very old ground that we've rehashed over and over again. It came up in discussion on Wednesday with the counselor, and no progress has been made there in many months, aside from her saying she needs to be better at working on that. It would've been unproductive if I'd gone there. Trust me, the thought crossed my mind at the time. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 23, 2016 16:26:58 GMT -5
That seems to be her favorite answer. A broad stroke/sweeping lie. "She needs to be better at working on that!"
When's the last time she was called out for lying? The truth is she has no intention of " working on it " at all. Her way of " better working on it" is hardly a crumb, while your starving.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 23, 2016 16:44:11 GMT -5
That seems to be her favorite answer. A broad stroke/sweeping lie. "She needs to be better at working on that!" When's the last time she was called out for lying? The truth is she has no intention of " working on it " at all. Her way of " better working on it" is hardly a crumb, while your starving. That would be Wednesday in couples counseling, and Thursday, when I asked her to start doing individual therapy again, and she told me she wasn't going to say anything about that just yet. |
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Post by baza on Jul 23, 2016 21:05:01 GMT -5
"don't you have any close friends who are happily married?" She asked me this morning."
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Isn't that a most illuminating statement.
You have been married several years, and presumably have known each other for some time before that, yet she has no knowledge of any close friends you have who are happily married.
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Maybe I have read the post all wrong, but it beggars belief that your missus is so disengaged from you that she is this ignorant about this pretty basic aspect of your life.
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 23, 2016 21:28:24 GMT -5
"don't you have any close friends who are happily married?" She asked me this morning." - Isn't that a most illuminating statement. You have been married several years, and presumably have known each other for some time before that, yet she has no knowledge of any close friends you have who are happily married. - Maybe I have read the post all wrong, but it beggars belief that your missus is so disengaged from you that she is this ignorant about this pretty basic aspect of your life. No, you're pretty much spot on. Two of her best friends have moved away for work and school, and others have had kids. Her best friend from college and her husband still live here, but she rarely sees them. As for me, several of my childhood friends live here, and I have very close friends from school and my veterans contacts. But half of them have never met her, and the other half have only met her once or twice, and it's been years. But either way, she's usually decided she doesn't like them. Even our church friends very, very rarely see the both of us together outside of Sunday morning. It was one of my complaints in counseling, both couples and individual. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 7:12:22 GMT -5
I know that my desire to keep the peace has overridden the desperate need to bring issues to a head. Sometimes you have to throw rocks at the snake to force it into the light so you can kill it. Hazardous, but necessary for progress. Mine too, DC. Keeping the peace = paramount for me. But at a dear, dear cost, right? Time to throw rocks at the snake? |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 24, 2016 9:07:48 GMT -5
I know that my desire to keep the peace has overridden the desperate need to bring issues to a head. Sometimes you have to throw rocks at the snake to force it into the light so you can kill it. Hazardous, but necessary for progress. Mine too, DC. Keeping the peace = paramount for me. But at a dear, dear cost, right? Time to throw rocks at the snake? Problem is, every time we bring it into the light it just ends with her crying and me angry. Even at counseling, we talked about the intent behind my words when I suggest things for us to do together, but no further action plans. When I'm feeling like being around my wife again, I'll try again. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 24, 2016 9:54:38 GMT -5
Mine too, DC. Keeping the peace = paramount for me. But at a dear, dear cost, right? Time to throw rocks at the snake? Problem is, every time we bring it into the light it just ends with her crying and me angry. Even at counseling, we talked about the intent behind my words when I suggest things for us to do together, but no further action plans. When I'm feeling like being around my wife again, I'll try again. Crying is a manipulators favorite weapon. This goes all the way back to raising children. It sounds like it's working on you. It ends things, no change is going to happen, no action plan, and you are angry. She bought herself more time. Now you are going to wait till you feel like going through the same manipulative process. i would not be surprised if this has been a tactic of hers going back to her childhood. my youngest is a cryer. When she has been told sternly that she has to get something done, and there are consequences for her actions, out comes the tears. We tell her " go to your room and continue your crying over there. When your done, your chore is still waiting for you, and you will not be allowed to do anything else until it is finished. " the chore gets done with a mopey ,angry ,attitude, it gets ignored, corrected, or she gets to go back to her room until she finds her happys!" The corrective punishment remains too. As our councilor told me about dealing with my soon to be 18 yr old son. " if he is going to act like a child, then treat him like one." |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 24, 2016 10:06:41 GMT -5
Oldest of four kids- I'm very familiar with the tactic, even when they're unaware that it's what they're doing.
And I know this isn't helping the resentment at all, because as soon as I mention that and needing to work through it, the tears start again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 12:00:05 GMT -5
greatcoastal re:tears, I have to disagree that they're always about manipulation. Sometimes when I'm feeling incredibly emotional and full of tension and frustration, I will cry. Perhaps at a time like this a man would punch a wall, I don't know, I've never seen a man do the frustration cry. I'm not someone who feels good about crying ot cries easily but once every 5 years or so, life all comes to a head at an unfortunate time and someone else sees me frustration cry. When I'm frustration crying, I don't have any control over it. I don't expect any action from any witnesses, except perhaps to let me compose myself before we resume whatever the pre-outburst activity was. It's not about manipulation, it's about not being able to hold the emotion back any more. People who are kind about it, I am eternally grateful to. People, like my father who used to say to little crying 5 year old me "I'll give you something to cry about!" have my eternal resentment for their lack of compassion.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 24, 2016 12:49:15 GMT -5
greatcoastal re:tears, I have to disagree that they're always about manipulation. Sometimes when I'm feeling incredibly emotional and full of tension and frustration, I will cry. Perhaps at a time like this a man would punch a wall, I don't know, I've never seen a man do the frustration cry. I'm not someone who feels good about crying ot cries easily but once every 5 years or so, life all comes to a head at an unfortunate time and someone else sees me frustration cry. When I'm frustration crying, I don't have any control over it. I don't expect any action from any witnesses, except perhaps to let me compose myself before we resume whatever the pre-outburst activity was. It's not about manipulation, it's about not being able to hold the emotion back any more. People who are kind about it, I am eternally grateful to. People, like my father who used to say to little crying 5 year old me "I'll give you something to cry about!" have my eternal resentment for their lack of compassion. You are 100percent correct HelenT! That's why I did not use the word always. It's a different set of rules when your dealing with a manipulator. Someone who jumps on the opportunity to take advantage of your good nature. I am one of the first to put an arm around someone, forget everything, blame myself, and feel better ( in the short run) for trying to help someone else, by giving. this kind of advice does not come easy. It's taken years of raising six children to get me this far. It's a never ending growing process. i hope this is relevant, no tears involved. I just came back from Wal Mart. There are 4 self check out lanes, they are all being used. There's a line of three other people waiting to check out. They have put a register in front of the self checkout to speed up the line. This lady walks up with a greeting card in her hand, ( the rest of us all have one item) one of the registers is open and the person in line is not paying attention. The lady with the greeting card walks past all three of us and goes straight to the register. I say to the man in front of me" I guess we don't matter? She walked right in front of us!" She never turns around ,finishes her business and is gone. i could have approached her, I could have said something to her. I could have said something to the lady at the register. No one said anything else. Probably just as well. You know,...let it go, who needs an argument, one more minute won't hurt any one, it would have taken just as long to solve it..etc..... The point is....what if another customer did that, and another, another? When do you take ground and say" me over here! This must stop? That's what CT 's wife keeps doing to him. |
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Post by cagedtiger on Jul 24, 2016 13:02:41 GMT -5
I don't think her tears are intentionally meant to be a controlling thing, which is why I worded my response like i did, but I do think a lot of it has to do with her feeling like she's not in control of the bigger situation.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 24, 2016 14:04:34 GMT -5
I don't think her tears are intentionally meant to be a controlling thing, which is why I worded my response like i did, but I do think a lot of it has to do with her feeling like she's not in control of the bigger situation. I'm no therapist, intentional or meant to be is mostly irrelevant when it comes to your part in this. You have to look at the end result. Look at how you both approach a problem and if the end result is pleasing to both parties. It clearly is not pleasing to you. Nor should be. Your requests are normal, natural, and justified. You do not deserve the extra baggage of all that guilt. We all have enough of our own baggage that needs to be lightened. |
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