Post by northstarmom on Aug 9, 2018 21:59:06 GMT -5
GC said this: ""et's start with the positive!
last night when my friend and I went to lous Blues would have left me with, perhaps a negative feeling about that place, however the same table that those 4 woman where at was the same table where I met 5 very different woman. Same table! LOL!
It reminds me of the stories I know and hear about churches. Some people leave saying " I have never been to a place where I felt so welcomed before! Everyone was so nice to me, I was invited back, and I am having dinner with my new friend I met there". While others say " that place was cold, no one spoke to me, no one looked at me, someone even said to me, your in my seat". It happens!
You and I have a different take on what our expectations are of going to a bar. I confess, it's all uncharted waters for me. I don't know the difference in a martini glass and a wine glass. I know when I order a coke it arrives in a paper cup with a Coke logo on it!
I confess I do go to a bar to meet people. I feel desperate. ( The online dating thing is a mess right now, church feels like a big failure) I know wanting to have sex again, it's like a false God, an idol. It's a double edge sword. God also made me this way, so at the same time I feel justified in wanting that need to be met, satisfied, maybe put to rest.
This is for @missunnybunny, I greatly admire your take on meeting a man and taking time to heal... you are three years ahead of me. I may very well mirror your words 3 years from now. For now that need, desire, longing to know if I am desired,and able to give back to a woman is 90% strong in my mind. I can't shake it yet.
I do a lot with my male friend. He's been the guard at the front gate of our neighborhood for the 15 yrs I lived there. He knows everything about everyone. That includes my family too. He doesn't have a driver's license or a car, he rides his bike places. He's had kidney surgery recently. I take him places, I loan him money, he pays me back. He already heard an earful about my sons bipolar. He cares. A lot more than 95% of the woman I know. sad truth.
On a side note, that man sitting alone at the table? Personally I would have found it easier to have invited him to join me and my friend than I would have felt sharing a joke with those woman. He may also be divorced and I could be a mentor for him, who knows? It reminds me of my trucking days and how easy it was to strike up a surface conversation with another trucker while pumping gas, eating dinner, or waiting on the loading docks.
As far as the woman and how they where dressed? For me that's an easier one. I see a lot of double standards in that. I'll explain it. The same woman who wears yoga pants, an open low cut top or a mini skirt with her cheeks hanging out, is the same woman who says " how dare a man even look at me as a sexual object! men are pigs, men are trash, who needs them! ( I got an earful of that at my divorce recovery class.) I've literally had woman bend over and "accidentally " have their evening gown drop open and right in my face is their breast and nipples, while I am helping a woman who was chocking. I had to turn my head! At least she said "oops sorry greatcoastal!"
I have a litany of stories of woman who parade around with there body exposed but a man doing that or even noticing it? A huge double standard.
As far as woman who are 65, 70 yrs old, showing off their cleavage? We are going to disagree on that. Honestly they don't look as sexy as they think they do. Only few people are going to tell them that. I have more admiration for a woman who knows she's not a teenager anymore and dresses classy , with style. I go out of my way to tell woman " that dress looks really good on you. You can tell she still has quite an attractive female figure without having to flaunt it. Again, that's just me.
When I first met Tori we sat across from each other at one of those high bar stool like tables at a restaurant. I could only see her from the chest up. Later in the parking lot I got to see what she was wearing. A tube top and some baggy striped pants. she looked like a 60's hippy, LOL. Now please don't get me wrong, I like this woman, she has spunk and is a caring person. I spoke to her face. She has the face of a caring 70 yr old granny like woman. I did not know her belly was exposed the whole time that I was having dinner with her! Her body is really not bad for a 70 yr old woman! The night we danced at lou's Blues she was wearing a mini skirt. She has cellulite on her legs. I like her! A lot! as a fun loving person! I don't care about cellulite and how she dresses. I'm proud of her! Do I want to go to bed with her? NO.
No it doesn't make sense that you would be repelled by a picture of a man holding a fish. That's judging a book by it's cover. Some of the most caring intelligent Godly men I know own boats and go fishing. I have another example. my pastor.,Jason is a married man, a father, a grandfather, a very motivational speaker, a ver well educated man on the bible, a very understanding person, a leader, he dresses in jeans and a tshirt, (his wife makes him wear a polo when preaching) he was also into cocaine in his teens. He grew up in Tennessee. He tells stories with a purpose that are meaningful and hit home about Jesus and who he hung out with. Sometimes his stories are about his days camping and duck hunting with his son. ( my saying" if you don't quit you can't loose" comes from jason.)
Now I have never shot an animal, never been hunting, never put a hook into a fish ( I do eat meat) I find the thought of blasting a hole in a duck pretty gross! Do I get "offended" by his stories? Do I throw the baby out with the bath water? No .Will I dismiss everything else about this man because he used to go hunting? NO.
I shoot wildlife...with a camera! and I get awards for my paintings that I do from my photography. I love nature! However I am a man. And if ever the day I have a gun and I need to defend someone on the street or in battle? I would use it. It may traumatize me for life ,but it's a strong part of my being.
That's what troubles me, because you prove in your story about the joke teller that you can be a very open minded, forgiving, loving person!
As far as the negative?
I have known a lot of woman in my adult years. Hundreds actually. The ratio is 10 to 1 as far as men that I know. Not too many men will relate to my past experiences. Being a stay at home dad and a homeschooler put me with several different groups of woman. I got to see there competitiveness against each other. I was rejected instantly for being a man. There feminism, childish behavior, dis respect and arrogance drove me away.
Meanwhile on the other hand hundreds of woman handed me there one year olds and asked for me by name. They gave me there trust and I came through, better than all the other woman I worked with as far as calming there kids and making them happy. Yet those same woman were all very surfacy,and very click oriented which I was not welcome to be a part of. Then I went home to my cold wife. All in the past.
Well, my more "likable" story about meeting woman at the "liberal Singles" party can also be seen as bitter. Someone could read this and get bitter about my behavior.
You had a cake shaped like a naked woman? You spoke and joked with woman about female anatomy? Those woman asked you about titts and ass? What kind of perverts are they? That's degrading! Who are they to say that's how a man thinks? Those woman invited you first? The man is supposed to ask a lady out. Jennifer couldn't even remember emailing you 12 hrs ago? And Tori laughed at her? How rude! Where these woman drunk? Did you drink? Susan hugged you right after just meeting you? You went out to a bar when you knew you had to go pick up your daughter? You where seen with liberals?
I mean the list can go on and on.... The world is a crazy place!
So to try and bring this full circle, dating at my age, in my situation, escaping a SM wafter 25 yrs with a narc, being a dad, a homeschooler stay at home father, unemployed, is a big tangled up knot!!
I compare it to what my soon to be 16 yr' old daughter is going through. "So Hunter hasn't answered your texts ,you haven't seen him in a month." Hunter said " what the hell are you doing here ?"when you showed up at his H.S. band concert? Were many of your other girl friends invited you ,but he didn't? ( I say dump him).
Then you met brandon! he's 9 months younger than you. You have quite a crush on him! He's 6 ft tall and just turned 15 yrs old. He talks to you a lot, he likes to do voice impressions, he wears a hat all the time ( like your older brother did) I say go for it!
That was long! Sorry about that!
If only my choices where that simple again!"
GC, I appreciate your taking the time to give such a long, thoughtful response. Here's my take.
I don't think that bars are the place for people who have been in longterm committed relationships to meet someone. I highly doubt that you just want to meet someone to get laid. I bet you are like I was when I was coming out of my 34-year marriage. What I wanted was a monogamous committed relationship, albeit, just a 3 month relationship (I'd planned to be a serial monogamous). But I wasn't interested in picking up a stranger and getting laid. I wanted someone whom I could trust, have fun with, and have good sex with. I have never picked up someone at a bar and had sex with them. Indeed, I've never picked someone up at a bar. When I was testing the waters while getting divorced (keep in mind my STBX had cheated, thought he'd fathered a child overseas, and after all of that came out, both of us agreed that for financial reasons, until he retired the next year, we'd live together as roommates while each of us romanced whomever we chose), I did go to bars. But I went to have fun. I danced. I hung out with friends. I even one time kissed a guy I'd never seen before. He was at least 20 years younger than me and sneaked away from his same-age girlfriend to talk to me outside and kiss me. That was a BIG confidence boost. But I didn't sleep with him and didn't want to. I was just being flirty, having fun and learning that despite my STBX"s rejection, I was desirable.
So, I think it's important for you to realize that many people go to bars just to meet friends, have fun -- and NOT to get laid. I've met male and female friends at bars, had a fe w drinks with no thoughts of having sex. Bars can be a convenient place to hang out and talk or dance or sing karaoke or enjoy comedy. While there are people including women who go to bars to get laid, would you really want to be with a woman who'd have sex with a stranger?
As for decolletage on women over 40. I maintain that women dressing like that are likely to be sensual women who love sex. The women who are dressing in a way you consider classy may be cold fish! I show decolletage and my lover of 5 years loves it. He absolutely loves my size B cup tits. I wore decolletage on our second date, and he said, "You know I'm enjoying looking at your tits," and I laughed. I did not fuck him then, but I did enjoy his enjoyment of looking at my body! I used to think he was just being polite when he complimented them. But he fondles my tits even in his sleep and loves it when I massage my cock with them. He really does think my tits are beautiful! One thing that may be important to you is to not expect 40 and older women to have the kind of bodies of women whom you enjoyed when you were young. I have stretch marks and c-sections scars, but my lover still enjoys looking at me so much that he was showing me earlier today nudes of me that he'd taken (and that he was supposed to have deleted!). He insists on my sleeping nude (I have a 75-year old woman friend whose same age husband insists on their both sleeping nude. Unsurprisingly, they still have a sex life). My lover is a tad overweight. His hair is going bald. But I think he is super hot! He is the only lover who has made me moan. I love touching his body. I love admiring his body. I would not trade him for one of the sexually inept guys whom I had sex with decades ago!
I wonder whether many of the mature women whom you consider to be dressing "classy" are cold fish who no longer are interested in sex! I certainly know how to dress appropriately for a professional job. Still, now that I'm retired, what I typically wear are yoga pants and a v-neck T-shirt.I enjoy being a sensual woman!
As for pictures of men with fish, as I mentioned, they turn me off. I stopped fishing a couple of decades ago after I read how painful it is to fish to have hooks in the most sensitive parts of their body. To me, a man holding a dead fish is similar to a picture of a man torturing a dead animal. If fishing were your thing, it could be wise, however, to highlight it on a dating site because it would help you attract women who also enjoy fishing and outdoor activities. Once I would have been attracted to such men because I fished (and, incidentally never managed to date a man who also enjoyed fishing! Not even my sons enjoyed fishing). However, if what you want to do is highlight some other appealing aspects of your personality such as your nurturing nature, compassion for others, caring for your children, loyalty to friends, a picture of you holding a dead animal isn't going to do that. Instead, it would be wise to have pictures depicting you in a way that will attract to you the kind of woman you want.
I do think that the best way to meet a new partner is to get involved in activities outside your home that interest you, and to do that for the pure enjoyment of the activity, not as part of a hunt to get laid. For instance, you obviously love your kids. You might enjoy volunteering at their school or with one of their activities. Throw yourself in wholeheartedly. Enjoy what you're doing and look for ways to use your unique talents to contribute. Whether or not you meet a partner, you'll still have fun and continue to heal from your SM. As I've mentioned, I met my post SM lover in community theater. In general, theater is filled with gay men. The community theater where I met my post SM lover was even more gay than many: It was started by gay women! Still, in the past 5 years, there have been at least 5 heteros who met their partners there. They didn't go there expecting a hook-up. They went because it was an easy, fun theater to get involved with. To their great surprise, they found love. That's what happened to me.
As always, wishing you the best in Opposite Land.
p.s., a few years ago, when my post SM partner had a deck built next to his pool, he had a "big deck party." One mutual friend of ours -- a very sexy woman college prof about age 65 who has been professor of the year a couple of years at the large, respected public institution where she teachers (every year, she belly dances for her classes!) -- brought a cake shaped like a vulva. We (and the "we" included people from mid 20s to about 70) thought it was hilarious. Virtually everyone was a sex- loving person. The professor herself was in a more than 13-year monogamous loving and sexual relationship with a man 22 years her junior. This is the way that sex-loving people may joke around. It's definitely not the type of thing that would have happened at the parties my ex and I hosted.
Welcome to Opposite Land! Enjoy!
last night when my friend and I went to lous Blues would have left me with, perhaps a negative feeling about that place, however the same table that those 4 woman where at was the same table where I met 5 very different woman. Same table! LOL!
It reminds me of the stories I know and hear about churches. Some people leave saying " I have never been to a place where I felt so welcomed before! Everyone was so nice to me, I was invited back, and I am having dinner with my new friend I met there". While others say " that place was cold, no one spoke to me, no one looked at me, someone even said to me, your in my seat". It happens!
You and I have a different take on what our expectations are of going to a bar. I confess, it's all uncharted waters for me. I don't know the difference in a martini glass and a wine glass. I know when I order a coke it arrives in a paper cup with a Coke logo on it!
I confess I do go to a bar to meet people. I feel desperate. ( The online dating thing is a mess right now, church feels like a big failure) I know wanting to have sex again, it's like a false God, an idol. It's a double edge sword. God also made me this way, so at the same time I feel justified in wanting that need to be met, satisfied, maybe put to rest.
This is for @missunnybunny, I greatly admire your take on meeting a man and taking time to heal... you are three years ahead of me. I may very well mirror your words 3 years from now. For now that need, desire, longing to know if I am desired,and able to give back to a woman is 90% strong in my mind. I can't shake it yet.
I do a lot with my male friend. He's been the guard at the front gate of our neighborhood for the 15 yrs I lived there. He knows everything about everyone. That includes my family too. He doesn't have a driver's license or a car, he rides his bike places. He's had kidney surgery recently. I take him places, I loan him money, he pays me back. He already heard an earful about my sons bipolar. He cares. A lot more than 95% of the woman I know. sad truth.
On a side note, that man sitting alone at the table? Personally I would have found it easier to have invited him to join me and my friend than I would have felt sharing a joke with those woman. He may also be divorced and I could be a mentor for him, who knows? It reminds me of my trucking days and how easy it was to strike up a surface conversation with another trucker while pumping gas, eating dinner, or waiting on the loading docks.
As far as the woman and how they where dressed? For me that's an easier one. I see a lot of double standards in that. I'll explain it. The same woman who wears yoga pants, an open low cut top or a mini skirt with her cheeks hanging out, is the same woman who says " how dare a man even look at me as a sexual object! men are pigs, men are trash, who needs them! ( I got an earful of that at my divorce recovery class.) I've literally had woman bend over and "accidentally " have their evening gown drop open and right in my face is their breast and nipples, while I am helping a woman who was chocking. I had to turn my head! At least she said "oops sorry greatcoastal!"
I have a litany of stories of woman who parade around with there body exposed but a man doing that or even noticing it? A huge double standard.
As far as woman who are 65, 70 yrs old, showing off their cleavage? We are going to disagree on that. Honestly they don't look as sexy as they think they do. Only few people are going to tell them that. I have more admiration for a woman who knows she's not a teenager anymore and dresses classy , with style. I go out of my way to tell woman " that dress looks really good on you. You can tell she still has quite an attractive female figure without having to flaunt it. Again, that's just me.
When I first met Tori we sat across from each other at one of those high bar stool like tables at a restaurant. I could only see her from the chest up. Later in the parking lot I got to see what she was wearing. A tube top and some baggy striped pants. she looked like a 60's hippy, LOL. Now please don't get me wrong, I like this woman, she has spunk and is a caring person. I spoke to her face. She has the face of a caring 70 yr old granny like woman. I did not know her belly was exposed the whole time that I was having dinner with her! Her body is really not bad for a 70 yr old woman! The night we danced at lou's Blues she was wearing a mini skirt. She has cellulite on her legs. I like her! A lot! as a fun loving person! I don't care about cellulite and how she dresses. I'm proud of her! Do I want to go to bed with her? NO.
No it doesn't make sense that you would be repelled by a picture of a man holding a fish. That's judging a book by it's cover. Some of the most caring intelligent Godly men I know own boats and go fishing. I have another example. my pastor.,Jason is a married man, a father, a grandfather, a very motivational speaker, a ver well educated man on the bible, a very understanding person, a leader, he dresses in jeans and a tshirt, (his wife makes him wear a polo when preaching) he was also into cocaine in his teens. He grew up in Tennessee. He tells stories with a purpose that are meaningful and hit home about Jesus and who he hung out with. Sometimes his stories are about his days camping and duck hunting with his son. ( my saying" if you don't quit you can't loose" comes from jason.)
Now I have never shot an animal, never been hunting, never put a hook into a fish ( I do eat meat) I find the thought of blasting a hole in a duck pretty gross! Do I get "offended" by his stories? Do I throw the baby out with the bath water? No .Will I dismiss everything else about this man because he used to go hunting? NO.
I shoot wildlife...with a camera! and I get awards for my paintings that I do from my photography. I love nature! However I am a man. And if ever the day I have a gun and I need to defend someone on the street or in battle? I would use it. It may traumatize me for life ,but it's a strong part of my being.
That's what troubles me, because you prove in your story about the joke teller that you can be a very open minded, forgiving, loving person!
As far as the negative?
I have known a lot of woman in my adult years. Hundreds actually. The ratio is 10 to 1 as far as men that I know. Not too many men will relate to my past experiences. Being a stay at home dad and a homeschooler put me with several different groups of woman. I got to see there competitiveness against each other. I was rejected instantly for being a man. There feminism, childish behavior, dis respect and arrogance drove me away.
Meanwhile on the other hand hundreds of woman handed me there one year olds and asked for me by name. They gave me there trust and I came through, better than all the other woman I worked with as far as calming there kids and making them happy. Yet those same woman were all very surfacy,and very click oriented which I was not welcome to be a part of. Then I went home to my cold wife. All in the past.
Well, my more "likable" story about meeting woman at the "liberal Singles" party can also be seen as bitter. Someone could read this and get bitter about my behavior.
You had a cake shaped like a naked woman? You spoke and joked with woman about female anatomy? Those woman asked you about titts and ass? What kind of perverts are they? That's degrading! Who are they to say that's how a man thinks? Those woman invited you first? The man is supposed to ask a lady out. Jennifer couldn't even remember emailing you 12 hrs ago? And Tori laughed at her? How rude! Where these woman drunk? Did you drink? Susan hugged you right after just meeting you? You went out to a bar when you knew you had to go pick up your daughter? You where seen with liberals?
I mean the list can go on and on.... The world is a crazy place!
So to try and bring this full circle, dating at my age, in my situation, escaping a SM wafter 25 yrs with a narc, being a dad, a homeschooler stay at home father, unemployed, is a big tangled up knot!!
I compare it to what my soon to be 16 yr' old daughter is going through. "So Hunter hasn't answered your texts ,you haven't seen him in a month." Hunter said " what the hell are you doing here ?"when you showed up at his H.S. band concert? Were many of your other girl friends invited you ,but he didn't? ( I say dump him).
Then you met brandon! he's 9 months younger than you. You have quite a crush on him! He's 6 ft tall and just turned 15 yrs old. He talks to you a lot, he likes to do voice impressions, he wears a hat all the time ( like your older brother did) I say go for it!
That was long! Sorry about that!
If only my choices where that simple again!"
GC, I appreciate your taking the time to give such a long, thoughtful response. Here's my take.
I don't think that bars are the place for people who have been in longterm committed relationships to meet someone. I highly doubt that you just want to meet someone to get laid. I bet you are like I was when I was coming out of my 34-year marriage. What I wanted was a monogamous committed relationship, albeit, just a 3 month relationship (I'd planned to be a serial monogamous). But I wasn't interested in picking up a stranger and getting laid. I wanted someone whom I could trust, have fun with, and have good sex with. I have never picked up someone at a bar and had sex with them. Indeed, I've never picked someone up at a bar. When I was testing the waters while getting divorced (keep in mind my STBX had cheated, thought he'd fathered a child overseas, and after all of that came out, both of us agreed that for financial reasons, until he retired the next year, we'd live together as roommates while each of us romanced whomever we chose), I did go to bars. But I went to have fun. I danced. I hung out with friends. I even one time kissed a guy I'd never seen before. He was at least 20 years younger than me and sneaked away from his same-age girlfriend to talk to me outside and kiss me. That was a BIG confidence boost. But I didn't sleep with him and didn't want to. I was just being flirty, having fun and learning that despite my STBX"s rejection, I was desirable.
So, I think it's important for you to realize that many people go to bars just to meet friends, have fun -- and NOT to get laid. I've met male and female friends at bars, had a fe w drinks with no thoughts of having sex. Bars can be a convenient place to hang out and talk or dance or sing karaoke or enjoy comedy. While there are people including women who go to bars to get laid, would you really want to be with a woman who'd have sex with a stranger?
As for decolletage on women over 40. I maintain that women dressing like that are likely to be sensual women who love sex. The women who are dressing in a way you consider classy may be cold fish! I show decolletage and my lover of 5 years loves it. He absolutely loves my size B cup tits. I wore decolletage on our second date, and he said, "You know I'm enjoying looking at your tits," and I laughed. I did not fuck him then, but I did enjoy his enjoyment of looking at my body! I used to think he was just being polite when he complimented them. But he fondles my tits even in his sleep and loves it when I massage my cock with them. He really does think my tits are beautiful! One thing that may be important to you is to not expect 40 and older women to have the kind of bodies of women whom you enjoyed when you were young. I have stretch marks and c-sections scars, but my lover still enjoys looking at me so much that he was showing me earlier today nudes of me that he'd taken (and that he was supposed to have deleted!). He insists on my sleeping nude (I have a 75-year old woman friend whose same age husband insists on their both sleeping nude. Unsurprisingly, they still have a sex life). My lover is a tad overweight. His hair is going bald. But I think he is super hot! He is the only lover who has made me moan. I love touching his body. I love admiring his body. I would not trade him for one of the sexually inept guys whom I had sex with decades ago!
I wonder whether many of the mature women whom you consider to be dressing "classy" are cold fish who no longer are interested in sex! I certainly know how to dress appropriately for a professional job. Still, now that I'm retired, what I typically wear are yoga pants and a v-neck T-shirt.I enjoy being a sensual woman!
As for pictures of men with fish, as I mentioned, they turn me off. I stopped fishing a couple of decades ago after I read how painful it is to fish to have hooks in the most sensitive parts of their body. To me, a man holding a dead fish is similar to a picture of a man torturing a dead animal. If fishing were your thing, it could be wise, however, to highlight it on a dating site because it would help you attract women who also enjoy fishing and outdoor activities. Once I would have been attracted to such men because I fished (and, incidentally never managed to date a man who also enjoyed fishing! Not even my sons enjoyed fishing). However, if what you want to do is highlight some other appealing aspects of your personality such as your nurturing nature, compassion for others, caring for your children, loyalty to friends, a picture of you holding a dead animal isn't going to do that. Instead, it would be wise to have pictures depicting you in a way that will attract to you the kind of woman you want.
I do think that the best way to meet a new partner is to get involved in activities outside your home that interest you, and to do that for the pure enjoyment of the activity, not as part of a hunt to get laid. For instance, you obviously love your kids. You might enjoy volunteering at their school or with one of their activities. Throw yourself in wholeheartedly. Enjoy what you're doing and look for ways to use your unique talents to contribute. Whether or not you meet a partner, you'll still have fun and continue to heal from your SM. As I've mentioned, I met my post SM lover in community theater. In general, theater is filled with gay men. The community theater where I met my post SM lover was even more gay than many: It was started by gay women! Still, in the past 5 years, there have been at least 5 heteros who met their partners there. They didn't go there expecting a hook-up. They went because it was an easy, fun theater to get involved with. To their great surprise, they found love. That's what happened to me.
As always, wishing you the best in Opposite Land.
p.s., a few years ago, when my post SM partner had a deck built next to his pool, he had a "big deck party." One mutual friend of ours -- a very sexy woman college prof about age 65 who has been professor of the year a couple of years at the large, respected public institution where she teachers (every year, she belly dances for her classes!) -- brought a cake shaped like a vulva. We (and the "we" included people from mid 20s to about 70) thought it was hilarious. Virtually everyone was a sex- loving person. The professor herself was in a more than 13-year monogamous loving and sexual relationship with a man 22 years her junior. This is the way that sex-loving people may joke around. It's definitely not the type of thing that would have happened at the parties my ex and I hosted.
Welcome to Opposite Land! Enjoy!
