|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 15, 2023 10:02:56 GMT -5
She has PCOS (known before marriage), and I am sterile due to premature birth issues. So we decided to adopt. We were going for 1, took on an emergency foster care boy, then 3 weeks later got contacted for a pre adoption placement for a 2 day old newborn. The first visit from the State guardian asked of we would adopt the almost 3 year old sister also as they wanted to keep the girls together as much as possible. That makes 3 additional in 5 months. We wound up adopting the boy, as he could not go back to the physically, sexually abusive and neglectful environment. Then 4 years later the birthing machine got out of prison, had another baby and went directly back to prison, we were contacted and decided to keep the girls together (we just could not in good conscience abandon the sister of our girls to the foster care system), making 4 gifts that we could not have had if we did not adopt. Each one is special in their own way and I love them all.
The adopted son is now 26, working and well adjusted. We have 2 left in home both younger girls, 17 and 13.
And yeah, she has a background in social work and gives, gives, gives to everyone - except our marriage. I am convinced the sexlessness is a combination of things. Burnout, persistent long term use of Prozac (proven to lower / eliminate libido), Perimenopause, weight gain, pre diabetes, etc..
When her perimenopause kicked in is I think when the decreased libido from Prozac finally got tipped to the total loss of sexual feeling and withdrawal of all desire, etc.. Saw a drop off starting about 15 years ago (all the kids, plus Prozac) went from 3-5 times a week to once a month, once every 3-4 months, every 6 months, every year or more, and then none - like a hammer dropping at age 48 for her. I think the loss of hormones at perimenopause was just enough loss to kill it for her, and no explanation other than feeling nothing. Combine this with the normal perimenopause / menopause - I don't give a sh*t about anyone else's crap anymore shift in brain chemistry, etc.. and here we are. She says it isn't about me being unattractive, she just doesn't feel anything, but won't consider alternatives to Prozac because of her severe migraine / cluster headaches - and why I am guessing is depression due to the loss of her identitiy as a result of the Prozac combined with the hormone driven insanity that hits women of a certain age (not all, but most).
|
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Dec 18, 2023 21:55:53 GMT -5
Wow.
Heckuva story and so glad to hear that you've been so fond of the family you made possible.
I sympathize with her not wanting to face migraines again.
It'd be nice if she'd sympathize with your being a normal ordinary man looking to fulfill biological drives.
In your previous entry you have contemplated divorce.
Would open marriage be an interim step to try?
Is your wife otherwise a pleasant enough companion?
If I follow, she's perfectly content with celibacy and expects you to adopt it as well, for her sake.
Apologies if I've scrambled your story with others.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 19, 2023 7:45:30 GMT -5
It's not just sexual release - the connection and bonding through mutual sex, touch and I dare say love making is important - without it, you just are pumping a drive that is never really satisfied anyway (Been there for a long time in the 80's-2000's, it's not just the sex). Working on getting her into see my therapist (also a licensed marriage and sex therapist). A lot of this came out in the past few months during my anger management therapy (guess what, I don't have anger management issues) - I do however have negative relationship, trust, rejection and sexual frustration issues - all stemming from 15 years of unexplained rejection, isolation and denial of intimacy within our marriage that unfortunately has been displayed as angry outbursts (not the best way to handle it - but who WOULDN'T be frustrated and angry about persistent long term affection and physical touch rejection from their spouse, you know?).
Open marriage, not likely - but if I can get her into the Therapists office, that will be discussed. Meanwhile, she expects dedicated, loving, caring connected husband who has to be satisfied that her brain doesn't work in a connected sexual way anymore (her words). Hopefully this can be resolved by getting her off the SSRI medications (all of them are poison), and ger her hormones straightened out, maybe she will find her way be to herself. Otherwise, I have little hope.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 19, 2023 10:44:58 GMT -5
And yes, she is pleasant enough, but anything to do with touching or intimacy and she is guarded, borderline hostile and extremely dismissive (disconnects and distances at even the slightest hint of physical intimacy that she doesn't control). Hand holds on her terms, side hugs with a peck kiss like your Aunt (zero passion or holding effort - pats on the back sort of thing). Smart, funny, easy to get along with - but just dead inside when it comes to physical intimacy, gets hostile whenever I try to discuss. She openly states she is consumed with being in either Mom mode or work mode and isn't connected with "her personal" mode. So you can understand why I am on the fence between supporting her back to herself, and suspecting this is just can kicking to avoid having to deal with the reality she has created.
The SSRI effects plus hormone / perimenopause combined are enough to (for lack of a better term) fuck with her head enough to misinterpret her lack of connection, desire and emotion as a problem within our relationship, rather than understand it is a combined effect of the screwed pharma effects, hormones and of course stress from full time mothering - so, I am continuing to work at this one small step at a time - but it's damned frustrating.
I haven't strayed (she asked when we had our big blow up earlier this year) - but she never answered me in return, so has she strayed? (I don't know). Could be all of these things along with a healthy dose of guilt on her part from all I know - she simply won't discuss it in detail about to understand.
|
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Dec 19, 2023 20:13:15 GMT -5
And yes, she is pleasant enough, but anything to do with touching or intimacy and she is guarded, borderline hostile and extremely dismissive (disconnects and distances at even the slightest hint of physical intimacy that she doesn't control). Hand holds on her terms, side hugs with a peck kiss like your Aunt (zero passion or holding effort - pats on the back sort of thing). Smart, funny, easy to get along with - but just dead inside when it comes to physical intimacy, gets hostile whenever I try to discuss. She openly states she is consumed with being in either Mom mode or work mode and isn't connected with "her personal" mode. So you can understand why I am on the fence between supporting her back to herself, and suspecting this is just can kicking to avoid having to deal with the reality she has created. The SSRI effects plus hormone / perimenopause combined are enough to (for lack of a better term) fuck with her head enough to misinterpret her lack of connection, desire and emotion as a problem within our relationship, rather than understand it is a combined effect of the screwed pharma effects, hormones and of course stress from full time mothering - so, I am continuing to work at this one small step at a time - but it's damned frustrating. I haven't strayed (she asked when we had our big blow up earlier this year) - but she never answered me in return, so has she strayed? (I don't know). Could be all of these things along with a healthy dose of guilt on her part from all I know - she simply won't discuss it in detail about to understand. I started dating to see whether open marriage was even a possibility for me. (It was.) I simultaneously began attending to her wishes to go on dates (that would end platonically), warm kisses goodbye in the morning, cuddles when she wanted it. I did not begrudge her any of it, since I knew passion was going to be supplied elsewhere. It's not as though the rest would be unpleasant if the human connection part could be fulfilled with someone else's neglected wife. (I made a point to only contact married women.) You're the third person who seems to separate affairs from the potential for deep human connection and I did not and do not see it that way at all. It is plausible that we could develop deeper connections to our lovers than to our spouses, yet keep all but one of our vows intact, just as our spouses did. Neither of us forsaking all others. We, dropping the "all". They dropping the "others". SSRIs set my wife straight 25 years ago when post-partum depression had her convinced her life sucked and I was part of the shit she was dealt. She took SSRIs and was once again grateful for her life and family. It's possible SSRIs didn't work and her depression leaves her miserable even when she has precious little reason to complain. That is what depression is. Being sad/angry/tired for no reason. The SSRIs helped with the migraines? Great. I'd sooner think she needs a second pill to take care of her evil brain that tortures both of you. Here's a link showing the multiple classes of antidepressants: iliasm.org/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&display_as=0&page=2&search=Search&where_thread_title=antidepressants&who_only_made_by=0The problem is, psychiatrists like to give multiple medicines from the same category. Especially SSRIs since their side effect profile is relatively benign. Problem is, if one SSRI doesn't work, it's less likely the second one will, and even less so a third. Dropping the pills may be the answer, but the answer may also be getting a more appropriate one. |
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 20, 2023 7:50:11 GMT -5
Sooooo, we had the talk yesterday after work. She insists she has not strayed, and insists she is working on getting back to being OK with touch and personal space - during our conversation she mentioned that after being full time Mom all the time with the kids she simply shut off the "her" part of herself and disconnected with her own self care and feelings for what she wanted (and with 5 kids 4 of them 12 and under down to newborn during the core period of time in that 15 years), we talked about that. She stated she felt she had to be comfortable again with her personal space after so long of just being on all the time, and that she felt she wanted to control her space so she can get her head back on straight. I did tell her that she has been controlling our relationship and our sex life exclusively for years (that got a strong reaction and denial of it being about control, etc..) I did not lose my cool or be accusatory - and continued to reiterate that I love her and want us to get back to normal relations soon.
Very tense discussion for about 45 minutes (we discussed her almost hostile reaction to my suggestions that Prozac and her hormones were contributing to her ability to recover her mindset (I stressed the "contributing" part - not the whole cause and that this is most likely a combination of mental and biochemical causing this disconnect of desire and sexual connection)), and could have went way south due to her defensiveness - but I think because of me going to therapy for stress and "anger issues" - it actually helped me to mitigate my reaction and responses enough to get her to open up instead of degenerating into a shut down argument. I also confronted her about her almost hostile response to very mundane things and really put her on the spot about her anger / resentment she may be carrying over relationship issues between us. she acknowledged that there may be some, but she isn't mad or anything like that - just harboring some over past arguments and my behavior (I can accept that).
I actually got an I love YOU and a real hug afterwards.
Keeping fingers crossed, received a backrub in bed last night around 2AM for no apparent reason, and a hug and kiss this morning.
|
|
|
|
Post by aquacat on Dec 20, 2023 8:26:39 GMT -5
Sooooo, we had the talk yesterday after work. She insists she has not strayed, and insists she is working on getting back to being OK with touch and personal space - during our conversation she mentioned that after being full time Mom all the time with the kids she simply shut off the "her" part of herself and disconnected with her own self care and feelings for what she wanted (and with 5 kids 4 of them 12 and under down to newborn during the core period of time in that 15 years), we talked about that. She stated she felt she had to be comfortable again with her personal space after so long of just being on all the time, and that she felt she wanted to control her space so she can get her head back on straight. I did tell her that she has been controlling our relationship and our sex life exclusively for years (that got a strong reaction and denial of it being about control, etc..) I did not lose my cool or be accusatory - and continued to reiterate that I love her and want us to get back to normal relations soon. Very tense discussion for about 45 minutes (we discussed her almost hostile reaction to my suggestions that Prozac and her hormones were contributing to her ability to recover her mindset (I stressed the "contributing" part - not the whole cause and that this is most likely a combination of mental and biochemical causing this disconnect of desire and sexual connection), and could have went way south due to her defensiveness - but I think because of me going to therapy for stress and "anger issues" - it actually helped me to mitigate my reaction and responses enough to get her to open up instead of degenerating into a shut down argument. I also confronted her about her almost hostile response to very mundane things and really put her on the sport about her anger / resentment she may be carrying over relationship issues between us. she acknowledged that theer may be some, but she isn't mad or anything like that - just harboring some over past arguments and my behavior (I can accept that). I actually got an I love YOU and a real hug afterwards. Keeping fingers crossed, received a backrub in bed last night around 2AM for no apparent reason, and a hug and kiss this morning. Sounds like some of the discussions I've had with my wife. She gets so defensive whenever I bring up our intimacy issues and as unhealthy as this is I've decided to just keep my thoughts and feelings to myself. Whenever we have a discussion about it, we end up getting into an argument and more resentment. If I could go back in time and talk to my younger self I would tell him to wait and learn to respect himself more and hold out for a woman who will respect him and love him the way it was intended. |
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 31, 2023 9:27:36 GMT -5
Update - I took the kids bowling and gave my Wife a planned day off after several weeks of her stressing at work. We get done, I grab them some food and we head home. They are eating downstairs and I go upstairs and walk in on my Wife finishing up masturbation. I was surprised to say the least, and asked if I should shut and lock the door, or "stay and shut / lock the door - no pressure.". She responded with "no pressure, I just finished". And then told me to come sit next to her. She then leaned across me and we cuddled a bit, and she then told me she is fat and needs to work on that. (so self image is an issue).
I of course, still shocked that the woman who just recently told me she has no sexual desire or feeling at all and will never have sex again, was engaged in sexual activity (even if it was with herself). I told her I think she is beautiful and sexy and we can work on both improving ourselves. No judging or or feedback, just held her and sat for a min or two, and then the kids came upstairs and ruined that moment (bug surprise).
However, we all went shopping for a few things and she was animated, energetic and singing with music and swaying a bit. Seemed like her old self for a while. Went to bed, hung out with hand holding only - but I figure why pressure her to discuss it right now. This is more than I have seen for almost 7 years...
Anyone else have any feedback or similar experiences?
|
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Dec 31, 2023 10:21:53 GMT -5
@ lonelyhubby
do you think she has been taking acre of herself all along? ....... or maybe started to lets say see if the engine would start....if it has been a long time.
i am totally much easier to get along and feel more energetic and less stressed after a self session too.
Maybe your last talk has sunk in some and she sees that you miss her... it may inspire her to explore what she wants and needs and her feeling better about herself even if self done is work towards things IMO
|
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 31, 2023 10:33:52 GMT -5
I think she has just started recently - the teenage girls are very active and always underfoot - I work from home so her "alone" time to do this has been almost nothing. I dare say that is part of the problem also - always in work mode or Mom mode. We discussed this morning with discussing "it" specifically - I offered to giver her Saturdays off for herself, and she says she would feel "Mom guilt" if she didn't hang with the girls on the weekends since I see them more working from home - I see them all the time.
She agreed to once a month, but also stated we need to make more time for us as well. I hope this isn't breadcrumbing.
She did have time out yesterday with a female neighbor - very close and I know she is highly sexual, and I know they have discussed the main issue in the past. I am hoping that she is trying to start the engine. I certainly don't want to focus on it and shy her away from re-engaging her sexuality by making it a thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Dec 31, 2023 10:33:52 GMT -5
A similar experience when I found my now ex W (then W) sitting on the bathroom floor next to the walk in shower masturbating. I left the room, and never mentioned it.
During our entire marriage she had difficulty getting wet, and (adequate lubrication) aroused. A physical,mental matter that had little to do with all of my years or efforts,and more to do with her own mindset,physical being due to her up bringing and or physical problems.
Why this new need or want to experience something that they easily convinced themselves " is not wanted or needed"?
Numerous answers, the truth? Even your W may not fully understand why!!
It's easy to over react and start filling your head with guilt, blame or shame, try not to go there. And try to not over think it.
One of my thoughts was " wow! I'm actually glad for her! I hope it finally works for her, maybe, maybe, even with someone else... but I have to much resentment and damage between us".
|
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Dec 31, 2023 12:38:19 GMT -5
A similar experience when I found my now ex W (then W) sitting on the bathroom floor next to the walk in shower masturbating. I left the room, and never mentioned it. During our entire marriage she had difficulty getting wet, and (adequate lubrication) aroused. A physical,mental matter that had little to do with all of my years or efforts,and more to do with her own mindset,physical being due to her up bringing and or physical problems. Why this new need or want to experience something that they easily convinced themselves " is not wanted or needed"? Numerous answers, the truth? Even your W may not fully understand why!! It's easy to over react and start filling your head with guilt, blame or shame, try not to go there. And try to not over think it. One of my thoughts was " wow! I'm actually glad for her! I hope it finally works for her, maybe, maybe, even with someone else... but I have to much resentment and damage between us". Yep - I am relieved she is connecting with her sexuality and at least making an attempt. Whether that translates into actually touching me beyond hand holding, or even kissing and taking steps towards restoring sex - that remains to be seen. |
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jan 1, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -5
More than one podcast has said that self-exploration is a path for women to better grasp that sex is supposed to be for the woman's benefit as well.
Women will focus on the man's needs to the exclusion of their own.
Rather tragic since the wife's pleasure can be the heart of the intimacy husbands may be craving, which is why starfish sex is can be so poorly received.
Perhaps Mrs. Lonelyhubby has a spicy romance novel hidden somewhere to practice feeling arousal in a household that doesn't present a conducive environment. Familiarizing herself with her own body's preferred stimulation will be helpful if she chooses to be intimate again. She'll know what to try to make happen when with someone else. She'll recognize signals that push towards bliss.
Hopefully that's what's going on.
If not, it can also dull her libido so she fails to interact with you, even if she isn't deliberately avoiding intimacy. Mrs. MirrorOrchid and I had a very sexy session wherein she climaxed deliciously. So much so that ruining it with PIV (the only kind of sex she's up for) would take away from the moment for me and, I assume, her.
Problem is, that does not seem to produce longing for a reciprocation of intimate touch. Going past a month now and my thirst for unadulterated bliss for her does mean I take a hit, and I'd really rather that weren't the case.
Men's addiction to porn is sometimes very quickly cured, just by allowing themselves to build up a testosterone level that ignites their drive for actual intercourse.
I think the same dynamic goes on for low libido ladies, they can reach critical mass too, it just takes a whole lot longer. Self-exploration for them could be counterproductive, but may also be necessary to start at all.
Tough line to draw, see, and interpret.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Jan 1, 2024 13:41:13 GMT -5
More than one podcast has said that self-exploration is a path for women to better grasp that sex is supposed to be for the woman's benefit as well. Women will focus on the man's needs to the exclusion of their own. Rather tragic since the wife's pleasure can be the heart of the intimacy husbands may be craving, which is why starfish sex is can be so poorly received. Perhaps Mrs. Lonelyhubby has a spicy romance novel hidden somewhere to practice feeling arousal in a household that doesn't present a conducive environment. Familiarizing herself with her own body's preferred stimulation will be helpful if she chooses to be intimate again. She'll know what to try to make happen when with someone else. She'll recognize signals that push towards bliss. Hopefully that's what's going on. If not, it can also dull her libido so she fails to interact with you, even if she isn't deliberately avoiding intimacy. Mrs. MirrorOrchid and I had a very sexy session wherein she climaxed deliciously. So much so that ruining it with PIV (the only kind of sex she's up for) would take away from the moment for me and, I assume, her. Problem is, that does not seem to produce longing for a reciprocation of intimate touch. Going past a month now and my thirst for unadulterated bliss for her does mean I take a hit, and I'd really rather that weren't the case. Men's addiction to porn is sometimes very quickly cured, just by allowing themselves to build up a testosterone level that ignites their drive for actual intercourse. I think the same dynamic goes on for low libido ladies, they can reach critical mass too, it just takes a whole lot longer. Self-exploration for them could be counterproductive, but may also be necessary to start at all. Tough line to draw, see, and interpret. Thig is - she was very sexual up to the first 4-5 years of marriage, mutual climax, use of vibrator, prepping and foreplay. she was very attuned to her needs and had zero problem in the bedroom. The it was light a switch went off and she started less, less and then nothing - like it just went away. |
|
m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
|
Post by m76 on Jan 1, 2024 13:50:05 GMT -5
More than one podcast has said that self-exploration is a path for women to better grasp that sex is supposed to be for the woman's benefit as well. Women will focus on the man's needs to the exclusion of their own. Rather tragic since the wife's pleasure can be the heart of the intimacy husbands may be craving, which is why starfish sex is can be so poorly received. Perhaps Mrs. Lonelyhubby has a spicy romance novel hidden somewhere to practice feeling arousal in a household that doesn't present a conducive environment. Familiarizing herself with her own body's preferred stimulation will be helpful if she chooses to be intimate again. She'll know what to try to make happen when with someone else. She'll recognize signals that push towards bliss. Hopefully that's what's going on. If not, it can also dull her libido so she fails to interact with you, even if she isn't deliberately avoiding intimacy. Mrs. MirrorOrchid and I had a very sexy session wherein she climaxed deliciously. So much so that ruining it with PIV (the only kind of sex she's up for) would take away from the moment for me and, I assume, her. Problem is, that does not seem to produce longing for a reciprocation of intimate touch. Going past a month now and my thirst for unadulterated bliss for her does mean I take a hit, and I'd really rather that weren't the case. Men's addiction to porn is sometimes very quickly cured, just by allowing themselves to build up a testosterone level that ignites their drive for actual intercourse. I think the same dynamic goes on for low libido ladies, they can reach critical mass too, it just takes a whole lot longer. Self-exploration for them could be counterproductive, but may also be necessary to start at all. Tough line to draw, see, and interpret. Thig is - she was very sexual up to the first 4-5 years of marriage, mutual climax, use of vibrator, prepping and foreplay. she was very attuned to her needs and had zero problem in the bedroom. The it was light a switch went off and she started less, less and then nothing - like it just went away. Same thing here with my wife, now she says she's always been asexual. Gaslighting. |
|
