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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 27, 2023 19:26:24 GMT -5
... she has been divorced twice .. and has not had relations in many years tried some online dating but was only weirdos. I felt like crap complaining about no sex........ with someone who admitted she has chosen celibacy.... Maybe she divorced twice and only met "weirdos" cuz she's a refuser? |
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even
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Post by even on Sept 29, 2023 20:53:07 GMT -5
@worksforme Interesting question and one i have asked myself ..... right now the anger at his not addressing it and he let me feel his libido issues was my fault for a long time before confessing a medical issue.... so i still think that was a jerk move. I still have reservations because he could have helped situation by other methods or even naked cuddling would have been appreciated but he chose to lie ... then stall any discussion about treatment. part of me might want to resume but logically i think doing so quickly would make him feel it was OK how he handled this whole thing. I feel you. As a woman, we are dealing something very different from what a man is dealing in a sexless marriage. Most Men feel his libido when his wife is sweet and non-demanding. Our demand of sex itself is huge turn off for most men, physically and psychologically. Part of your husband’s pulling away on this topic is due to he cannot help himself feeling not wanting having sex more after feeling you are trying to control him. It is never easy. I cried during nights. The best way, as for me, is just to walk away, to let go. To understand that he has no worry about my needs is exactly due to I am holding on him like the last straw of my sex life. This is false. I mean, if you choose a sexless marriage, which is noble, you should accept it radically rather than changing it or your husband. If, however, you do want a relationship involving sex, the only one you can change is yourself, as the above post also mentioned. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 30, 2023 8:05:21 GMT -5
I feel you. As a woman, we are dealing something very different from what a man is dealing in a sexless marriage. Most Men feel his libido when his wife is sweet and non-demanding. Our demand of sex itself is huge turn off for most men, physically and psychologically. Part of your husband’s pulling away on this topic is due to he cannot help himself feeling not wanting having sex more after feeling you are trying to control him. It is never easy. I cried during nights. The best way, as for me, is just to walk away, to let go. To understand that he has no worry about my needs is exactly due to I am holding on him like the last straw of my sex life. This is false. I mean, if you choose a sexless marriage, which is noble, you should accept it radically rather than changing it or your husband. If, however, you do want a relationship involving sex, the only one you can change is yourself, as the above post also mentioned. I could not disagree more with your 1st paragraph. Most men are not turned off by their female partner wanting sex. it;s just the opposite. Most hetero males relish the thought of their partner initiating. I highly doubt men see a woman wanting sex as a form of control. I also disagree that choosing to stay in a SM is somehow noble. There are good reasons to stay sometimes. But you are correct in saying most often it is a waste of time trying to change a sexless partner. The only person that you can change is you. |
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even
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Post by even on Sept 30, 2023 16:31:47 GMT -5
I feel you. As a woman, we are dealing something very different from what a man is dealing in a sexless marriage. Most Men feel his libido when his wife is sweet and non-demanding. Our demand of sex itself is huge turn off for most men, physically and psychologically. Part of your husband’s pulling away on this topic is due to he cannot help himself feeling not wanting having sex more after feeling you are trying to control him. It is never easy. I cried during nights. The best way, as for me, is just to walk away, to let go. To understand that he has no worry about my needs is exactly due to I am holding on him like the last straw of my sex life. This is false. I mean, if you choose a sexless marriage, which is noble, you should accept it radically rather than changing it or your husband. If, however, you do want a relationship involving sex, the only one you can change is yourself, as the above post also mentioned. I could not disagree more with your 1st paragraph. Most men are not turned off by their female partner wanting sex. it;s just the opposite. Most hetero males relish the thought of their partner initiating. I highly doubt men see a woman wanting sex as a form of control. I also disagree that choosing to stay in a SM is somehow noble. There are good reasons to stay sometimes. But you are correct in saying most often it is a waste of time trying to change a sexless partner. The only person that you can change is you. If a man doesn’t want sex for any reason, do you think it will be form of control if his wife initiating with the knowledge of that? I am taking about men who is the reason of a sexless marriage, not average men, please let me specify. This is my soon-to-be-ex husband told me, it could be wrong. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 2, 2023 18:26:30 GMT -5
I found it nobler to stay in a sexless marriage, and outsource, than to divorce.
Most of society disagrees with me and prefers to shatter a marriage entirely, rather than keep one with an unfortunate stain on it. (our "infidelity")
Maybe it's nobler still to stay and suffer.
Tragic and horrifying, sure. But nobler.
And I'm not sure it's that much better. The tiny amount of nobility for that degree of misery seems...sadistic.
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 4, 2023 8:35:41 GMT -5
I found it nobler to stay in a sexless marriage, and outsource, than to divorce. Most of society disagrees with me and prefers to shatter a marriage entirely, rather than keep one with an unfortunate stain on it. (our "infidelity") Maybe it's nobler still to stay and suffer. Tragic and horrifying, sure. But nobler. And I'm not sure it's that much better. The tiny amount of nobility for that degree of misery seems...sadistic. i agree with you.... there is no consolation prize to stay and suffer.... no nobility. I have come to the conclusion that outsourcing done discreetly is a better move. i only have a cyber FWB thing but if i traveled and met up would be physical and i feel no remorse / or shame in wanting or doing anything. I find it odd so many people in all sorts of situations only think divorce for even minor issues... how is this so black and white while nothing else in world is ... all sorts of item once thought taboo are to be accepted as fine and normal. not sure who encourages this but my guess is subtle ads from a divorce lawyer/ therapist coalition. |
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 4, 2023 14:05:52 GMT -5
"Our demand of sex itself is huge turn off for most men, physically and psychologically. Part of your husband’s pulling away on this topic is due to he cannot help himself feeling not wanting having sex more after feeling you are trying to control him. "
The above is true only for men who either don't particularly like sex or who think that sex is something that "good" women aren't into. It also may be something that women learned from their parents. For instance, my mom told me stories about women who ended up being confined in mental hospitals because they wanted to have orgasms! Thus, for years, I thought that there was something wrong with me for craving sex.
My post SM partner thinks it's great that I have a libido. He says he has always been turned on, not off, by women who like sex. He likes it when I reach out to him for sex. It makes him feel desired and attractive just like it makes me feel desired and attractive when he invites me to have sex.
It's a big red flag if a man is turned off by a woman who likes sex and approaches him for sex. It's normal and healthy for women to desire sex and to seduce their partners.
" if you choose a sexless marriage, which is noble, you should accept it radically rather than changing it or your husband. If, however, you do want a relationship involving sex, the only one you can change is yourself, as the above post also mentioned."
There's nothing noble about choosing a sexless marriage. It's not anything to admire. Everyone has their own choices, and choosing a sexual or sexless marriage is based on your own preferences. As for me, when I remained for years in a SM, it was a sign of my not realizing that I was normal to want sex in a marriage. I was worthy of having a marriage that was the kind of marriage I wanted. Instead of using the word "noble" to describe my acceptance of that, I'd describe myself as being naive, unneccesarily self-sacrificing, and miserable. I didn't realize then that I deserved better.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 4, 2023 20:38:41 GMT -5
Whether to stay or to go, it depends. I think trust is an important part of any relationship. If the refuser is open and honest that they don't want to have sex and tell their spouse to get it elsewhere, staying is probably a reasonable option, but if the refuser is using mind games to avoid intimacy, then any trust is misplaced. I don't say that lightly, because we all start out loving our refusing spouses, and love on our part creates an unwarranted trust. My case was the latter, as was northstarmom 's situation, and most of us here, so we were well served ending the facade. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 5, 2023 18:56:10 GMT -5
Whether to stay or to go, it depends. I think trust is an important part of any relationship. If the refuser is open and honest that they don't want to have sex and tell their spouse to get it elsewhere, staying is probably a reasonable option, but if the refuser is using mind games to avoid intimacy, then any trust is misplaced. I don't say that lightly, because we all start out loving our refusing spouses, and love on our part creates an unwarranted trust. My case was the latter, as was northstarmom 's situation, and most of us here, so we were well served ending the facade. I'd ask for some sympathy. Society has put in their heads that infidelity of all kinds is not to be tolerated. It's a deep sign of disrespect and is a humiliating existence. So, refusers want neither divorce nor infidelity. They may not like what it's doing to their refused spouse, but agreeing to these societal sins is a cost many will put off as long as they can. Toss in the unwise emphasis by that same society on marriage itself as a life goal everyone should want and the condemnation of premarital sex, and, well...sexless marriage is going to happen a lot, and last far too long. Society, has it's head up its bung. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 7, 2023 0:45:40 GMT -5
Society does indeed perpetuate some unfair assumptions about relationships. I didn't mean to imply judgement of alternative relationships.
I had one friend whose wife was honest to her husband about her lack of desire. She didn't want to divorce. She was just done with sex, so she opened the relationship and asked him that he not embarrass her by making his other relationships too obvious.
Another friend wasn't getting her needs met by her husband, so she opened up the relationship and encouraged him to find other partners also.
In both example cases, it has worked for the couples. I am sure other couples can figure out mutually beneficial alternative relationships.
Poly relationships won't work for everyone, but they can work, regardless of societal norms, but some things might be better off kept quiet. Some people just can't accept that what happens in the bedroom is nobody's business except the five people involved.
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 9, 2023 7:23:55 GMT -5
Over on Dad Starting Over, the red pill types are overtly hostile to poly. I pointed out that divorce produces all the same results they say about Poly and it's not as though you cannot divorce after opening up. IF poly works, why divorce? It baffles me, not just the closed-mindedness, but the inability to even grasp the cold logic. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 9, 2023 7:42:47 GMT -5
Over on Dad Starting Over, the red pill types are overtly hostile to poly. I pointed out that divorce produces all the same results they say about Poly and it's not as though you cannot divorce after opening up. IF poly works, why divorce? It baffles me, not just the closed-mindedness, but the inability to even grasp the cold logic. The rational eludes me also. When I talked with my now X about me having a FWB she was adamently opposed. She re-engaged sexually for roughly 3 months before she returned to refusing again. And that was the straw that broke the camels back. I distanced myself from her and shortly after we discussed seperation and divorce. I suppose it was the Alpha woman in her that could not abide another woman in the mix. She preferred divorce. |
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Post by h on Oct 9, 2023 19:27:57 GMT -5
Over on Dad Starting Over, the red pill types are overtly hostile to poly. I pointed out that divorce produces all the same results they say about Poly and it's not as though you cannot divorce after opening up. IF poly works, why divorce? It baffles me, not just the closed-mindedness, but the inability to even grasp the cold logic. The rational eludes me also. When I talked with my now X about me having a FWB she was adamently opposed. She re-engaged sexually for roughly 3 months before she returned to refusing again. And that was the straw that broke the camels back. I distanced myself from her and shortly after we discussed seperation and divorce. I suppose it was the Alpha woman in her that could not abide another woman in the mix. She preferred divorce. Mine would react the same way. If I suggested an open marriage that would be the end. |
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Post by baza on Oct 10, 2023 2:10:53 GMT -5
I reckon that anything you promote (like poly, FWB, open marriage, affair, outsourcing, swinging etc etc) your spouse is not going to be very enthralled by the idea. And like Brother h notes, your spouse will oftentimes bring out the biggest gun they have - the divorce bazooka - to try and nip any change to the status quo quickly and decisively. And if you are not prepared for this possibility it can all blow up in your face. |
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Post by lessingham on Oct 11, 2023 5:00:08 GMT -5
The funniest, as in weird, story I ever heard was a guy who resorted to hookers. His wife was okay with it and even drove him to meets!!!!! He developed a regular and his wife would go shopping with her. I think this is so far removed from how I perceive female psychology to be a fiction. But it is a weird tale indeed
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