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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 4, 2024 4:56:44 GMT -5
Fair enough, I was referring to what Dr. Psych Mom says. She does give some male supportive articles and posts, but all in all - very excuse after excuse about justifying Women's drop in libido and minimizing accountability - Men have to keep dating and romancing, but also saying that Women's libido goes away almost to zero after marriage and that's Ok, you still have to romance, etc.. She says repeatedly that neglected physical touch as a part of the relationship isn't smart. She also implies frequency in positive statements such as "if you're getting some every week, that's about par for the course and you have to ask if you're being unrealistic." The flip side of that statement would be if you're getting a lot less than that, Psychmom thinks you're getting shortchanged. She'll then throw out a tempo of twice a month as pushing limits. I don't think of her explanations for diminished libido as excuses. Just observations of biological mechanisms to be aware of and countered with cerebral decisions to do things that do not come naturally. isthisit What Mark Manson material impressed you? |
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Post by csl on Oct 4, 2024 7:43:32 GMT -5
Mine claims hers is responsive desire which is why I must initiate all the time. I am not much keen on that response. Primarily, because this focuses only on what is important to her, at the expense of what is important to you, which is not what a marriage is supposed to be about. Also, the human race has survived because we have evolved to learn from our experiences. How hard is initiating for your benefit if she has learned that she gets into it fairly quickly? Your wife is plain, old selfish. I agree with this "diagnosis." Yes, responsive desire is real, but she is using it as a crutch, an excuse. There is a way that a wife who knows that she is a responsive-desire person can initiate, and that is by being intentional. Knowing her proclivities, she could plan and make time for intimacy. That she doesn't speaks volumes. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Oct 9, 2024 18:44:44 GMT -5
So, I've mentioned this before but I have a woman I work with that I've become friends with, she knows everything about my current situation and I've been hanging out with her just to go on walks and talk about shows that we both like and things like that.
Well it was my birthday last weekend my wife said I can go out and get myself something...that was the extent on my birthday celebrations.
The next day I meet my friend for a walk and she has with her some of the dessert from a local bakery then I mentioned once. Not only did she remember my birthday, but she remembered something minor about me mentioned in passing months before.
I was shocked, I've never experienced this kind of genuine care and interest in what I want. I held it together at the time but broke down after I got home... is this what real caring is like?
Since then we've continued to talk and I've made arrangements with her to meet at her place this weekend. I don't know if anything intimate will happen but I just want to be around her, someone that actually gives a shit about me.
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Post by lonelyhubby on Oct 10, 2024 7:18:09 GMT -5
That's really what it is - not just about the physical act - the act giving that security of relationship and connection that someone actually does give a shit about you on a level that a simple roommate will never be able to.
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Post by lonelytiger on Oct 10, 2024 14:14:12 GMT -5
I can totally see the emotional connection being absent in your marriage from how you describe the relationship with your wife. I sometimes feel the same way in mine and I can relate that if another woman cared enough to remember me like that it would make me cry. My wife does at least care for me like that so that part isn't missing; just the physical connection is.
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diode
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Post by diode on Oct 10, 2024 18:04:36 GMT -5
So, I've mentioned this before but I have a woman I work with that I've become friends with, she knows everything about my current situation and I've been hanging out with her just to go on walks and talk about shows that we both like and things like that. Well it was my birthday last weekend my wife said I can go out and get myself something...that was the extent on my birthday celebrations. The next day I meet my friend for a walk and she has with her some of the dessert from a local bakery then I mentioned once. Not only did she remember my birthday, but she remembered something minor about me mentioned in passing months before. I was shocked, I've never experienced this kind of genuine care and interest in what I want. I held it together at the time but broke down after I got home... is this what real caring is like? Since then we've continued to talk and I've made arrangements with her to meet at her place this weekend. I don't know if anything intimate will happen but I just want to be around her, someone that actually gives a shit about me. That sounds like a green light to me  |
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 15, 2024 9:53:27 GMT -5
Well it was my birthday last weekend my wife said I can go out and get myself something...that was the extent on my birthday celebrations. The next day I meet my friend for a walk and she has with her some of the dessert from a local bakery then I mentioned once. Not only did she remember my birthday, but she remembered something minor about me mentioned in passing months before. I was shocked, I've never experienced this kind of genuine care and interest in what I want. I held it together at the time but broke down after I got home... is this what real caring is like? This is what I mean when I go on about all the "upstream" relationship business when people are focused on the downstream results, like sex. Deep down, intuitively, we realize the framing of "everything is great but the sex" and "you'd risk your relationship to instead get sex" - is baloney. Everything is NOT great except the sex. It's sometimes harder to notice the rest of it. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Oct 15, 2024 13:43:31 GMT -5
Well it was my birthday last weekend my wife said I can go out and get myself something...that was the extent on my birthday celebrations. The next day I meet my friend for a walk and she has with her some of the dessert from a local bakery then I mentioned once. Not only did she remember my birthday, but she remembered something minor about me mentioned in passing months before. I was shocked, I've never experienced this kind of genuine care and interest in what I want. I held it together at the time but broke down after I got home... is this what real caring is like? This is what I mean when I go on about all the "upstream" relationship business when people are focused on the downstream results, like sex. Deep down, intuitively, we realize the framing of "everything is great but the sex" and "you'd risk your relationship to instead get sex" - is baloney. Everything is NOT great except the sex. It's sometimes harder to notice the rest of it. You're right. It's easy to think that everything is fine because we don't fight and we get along fine as friends. That doesn't mean the relationship is fine. The more I hang out with and talk to my other friend I'm realizing how much I'm missing. |
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Post by lonelytiger on Oct 21, 2024 21:22:42 GMT -5
How do you finally stop getting your hopes up that things will change and/or your spouse will be sexual with you? I am tired of getting my hopes up and really want to not give a crap anymore. I’m tired of these fantasies going through my head of my wife being this sexual person like me.
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 22, 2024 4:26:03 GMT -5
How do you finally stop getting your hopes up that things will change and/or your spouse will be sexual with you? I am tired of getting my hopes up and really want to not give a crap anymore. I’m tired of these fantasies going through my head of my wife being this sexual person like me. After yet another no-sex Valentine's Day, I explained to my wife I didn't want a big deal made out of our 20th anniversary (three months away), that I didn't like how our marriage was (I forget how specific I was) but explained "This will not stand." The anniversary came and went platonically with a nice enough dinner and flowers and gift, but the marriage was a routine expectation with no passion left. Shortly after our 20th, I started a dating profile with the intent to open our marriage. So, two things: Facing a major milestone in the same sex-starved swamp I'd been in for over three years and Zero response to what I felt was an ultimatum (but if I wasn't clear, I mean, gaddam what does a functional marriage look like? I need two and two to get put together here.) Those two things made me lose hope that Mrs. MirrorOrchid would recover. Related, was the first time the Mrs. had me wait over two months. Something snapped. My marriage was unacceptable and a mistress might fill the void. Sometime after, I started actually tracking our trysts on a calendar to see if sex was as rare as it felt. It was. Four times a year. I still keep that calendar which has helped me notice she's slipping back towards sexlessness and I'll be intervening soon. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Oct 22, 2024 8:22:46 GMT -5
How do you finally stop getting your hopes up that things will change and/or your spouse will be sexual with you? I am tired of getting my hopes up and really want to not give a crap anymore. I’m tired of these fantasies going through my head of my wife being this sexual person like me. For me, I always had hope that if we could just get things started again and get some touching going she'd start to realize/remember that she enjoyed it. And after 6 months or so of counciling it really seemed to be going in that direction. But then our sessions starter getting cancelled and when we had they she would touch me but wouldn't let me touch her. Then around that time she had purchased some stuff online, including a asexual pride flag and sticker for the car. At that point I realized I was fighting a loosing war and she would never have any desire for me. We haven't touched each other again in months now. |
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Post by lonelytiger on Oct 22, 2024 10:51:41 GMT -5
How do you finally stop getting your hopes up that things will change and/or your spouse will be sexual with you? I am tired of getting my hopes up and really want to not give a crap anymore. I’m tired of these fantasies going through my head of my wife being this sexual person like me. For me, I always had hope that if we could just get things started again and get some touching going she'd start to realize/remember that she enjoyed it. And after 6 months or so of counciling it really seemed to be going in that direction. But then our sessions starter getting cancelled and when we had they she would touch me but wouldn't let me touch her. Then around that time she had purchased some stuff online, including a asexual pride flag and sticker for the car. At that point I realized I was fighting a loosing war and she would never have any desire for me. We haven't touched each other again in months now. Why do you still put up with it? I ask that with me looking at the mirror too. If she truly doesn't want to fix things, why stay? |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Oct 22, 2024 10:58:05 GMT -5
For me, I always had hope that if we could just get things started again and get some touching going she'd start to realize/remember that she enjoyed it. And after 6 months or so of counciling it really seemed to be going in that direction. But then our sessions starter getting cancelled and when we had they she would touch me but wouldn't let me touch her. Then around that time she had purchased some stuff online, including a asexual pride flag and sticker for the car. At that point I realized I was fighting a loosing war and she would never have any desire for me. We haven't touched each other again in months now. Why do you still put up with it? I ask that with me looking at the mirror too. If she truly doesn't want to fix things, why stay? My son and financials, at this point I'm just waiting for my son to move out. I have another couple'scouncilling session next week, I really don't know what I'm going to say or what she would say. Usually the therapists starts off by asking how things are going. Either I say fine, or I'm honest and start discussing the end of the marriage. |
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Post by jim44444 on Oct 22, 2024 11:47:59 GMT -5
Why do you still put up with it? I ask that with me looking at the mirror too. If she truly doesn't want to fix things, why stay? My son and financials, at this point I'm just waiting for my son to move out. I have another coupled councilling session next week, I really don't know what I'm going to say or what she would say. Usually the therapists starts off by asking how things are going. Either I say fine, or I'm honest and start discussing the end of the marriage. Honesty is the best policy. What is she going to do? With hold sex? |
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Post by isthisit on Oct 22, 2024 12:01:49 GMT -5
How do you finally stop getting your hopes up that things will change and/or your spouse will be sexual with you? I am tired of getting my hopes up and really want to not give a crap anymore. I’m tired of these fantasies going through my head of my wife being this sexual person like me. In my case it was arriving here and reading about the situations of other people which resonated for me. I could see the brutal reality of their deals so clearly… uh-oh… that applies to my deal too. Once I could finally see my situation for what it was… yeah, that put me off any form of intimacy with him immediately. I need the guy to be into it, and specifically into me, for it to be fun. Once I accepted that wasn’t the case with H I stopped wanting and hoping for sex with him. Happily I then started craving it with other men for the first time in a very long time. A much better problem to have. |
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