|
|
Post by jaimereyes on Aug 7, 2024 13:20:17 GMT -5
Yes, my spouse has told me that she gets it and feels bad. Other times she asks how I feel lonely when we do other things together like watch tv or go on walks. What would happen if you were up for TV and sex, but you would endlessly, always, tell her, "No", you don't want to go for walks. She's been indoors for months but you're never in the mood. She can't seem to explain "cabin fever" to you and the fact you won't just go for the walk once in a while is confusing and hurtful after a while. She goes on walks alone, yes and you ask why it matters so much that you be there. She says she's lonely, but you do the other two things, sex and TV. She goes for the walks, why do you have to be there when it happens? It's the same isn't it? We "bond" over this? I don't get it. I know I should. I don't get why it's important to you, but you keep saying it is. I just gotta accept that, but I just don't think about it and I haven't made time. Maybe tomorrow. This is an interesting thought experiment. This kind of came up in a recent discussion between us where she stated that she had some confusion how I can be understanding of her medical condition while ALSO missing sex. My wife really likes cuddling on the couch before bed. I asked her how she would feel if I was in a full body cast and was unable to cuddle on the couch normally. She acknowledged that she would understand that I couldn't cuddle and admitted that she would miss cuddling. |
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 7, 2024 19:31:34 GMT -5
Don't you hate it when they get all defensive when you ask questions like this? Mine will also ask me why I can't just accept her for who she is. I keep telling her I accept her just fine, I'm just trying to figure out where the disconnect is coming from. Does she accept you? These refusers seem to think asexuality is the only thing that needs accepting. Your staying the same man you always were is equally worthy of acceptance. They somehow think change is the only thing that needs acceptance. Why? You say the two of you are fully compatible except for the sex and you'd like to stay together for the kids? Why is opening the marriage off the table? Why do you allow it to be put off the table? She doesn't want it, you do. You find someone else's wife who is in your shoes...problem solved. That's what I nearly did. My wife decided she wanted to be my lover again. Nothing else budged her out of her delusion. If she wants to divorce you because your celibacy is the price of staying married? Fine. She can explain that to her parents and friends. Bet you she doesn't. |
|
|
|
Post by csl on Aug 8, 2024 7:27:09 GMT -5
Don't you hate it when they get all defensive when you ask questions like this? Mine will also ask me why I can't just accept her for who she is. I keep telling her I accept her just fine, I'm just trying to figure out where the disconnect is coming from. Wrote about that "accept me" canard in 2016. curmudgeonlylibrarian.wordpress.com/2016/10/17/if-you-loved-meaccept-me/(Warning, I am a Christian and unapologetically write from that perspective.) |
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Aug 9, 2024 12:05:01 GMT -5
I've been having a rough time for a couple of weeks now. So in counciling I had expressed that my minimum needs are some kind of sexual touch one a week. That really is bare minimum, I'd of course would rather have sex everyday if I could. So we worked out our intimacy date nights. Last date night didn't go well (I was touching her "wrong") and the mood was killed after she told me she felt I was treating her like a toy. For context I was accidently brushing my hand on her ear which she doesn't like. The date before that one was cancelled and this week's didn't happen either. In addition to this I was helping her move stuff back into the house from an author's thing she had gone to and I noticed the LGBTQA flag and an asexual (ace) flag that she displayed on her sale table. When i saw those flags it hit me hard that she will never want or desire me. A few observations: I have dated an author for a while. As a former Literature major myself, it was no surprise to me to see that she and a large part of her "industry" (the associations, clientele/patrons/grants, festivals, awards committees) had been "ideologically captured" by neo-Marxism reskinned as identity-politics, in which claims about sexual preference are perceived as proxies for higher morality. The clinical number of aesexuals is very, very small. There may be a higher number of Austistic 1 or ASD 2 people who are functionally aesexual in practice, but as a result of their autism. Claiming to be a one of the alphabet + acronym identities by virtue of some invisible and non-provable peccadillo, or just by describing a default notion that occurs to most everyone, is happening a lot these days, and seems to be important within authors' circles. I've dated many divorced and separated women who thought they were aesxual when in a relationship they no longer wanted, and who certainly proved themselves wrong post marriage. The former Mrs Apocrypha tried to make the same claims, even when she was sustaining a deeply sexual affair, and throughout robust sexual adventures she initiated while in an open relationship, and again, when separated. She's not aesexual in any way, yet still feels it is important to her (somehow the sexual adventures are her way of posing "fighting against it"). It's very unlikely that she's aesexual - particularly if you recall a period in your relationship where she was not. It's more likely right now that she's trying to use the Alphabet Maoist movement as some kind of shield to circumvent the difficult examination of her behavior and choices. If it's "your identity", instead of just something you are doing, you get to lean into it, and you get status in certain crowds. This shouldn't have been any surprise to you if you are in a functional marriage "barring the sex" as people often say. So, you are faced with two choices in how to take this. She's either aesexual for real, to the point of having a literal flag on her desk about it, and relaxing into it because it's who she is for real, or she's made a choice to "present" this way falsely, either mistakenly, or perhaps to claim status for herself and to use as a shield to dissuade you from pushing her to have sex with you that she doesn't want to have. Either way, she doesn't want to have sex with you. She's shown you this across more than a year, and now that you are in therapy and presumably negotiations, is really leaning into this. So how do you approach it? What's the problem to solve here? You've been going off "# of sexual interactions" but she just put a spotlight on what's upstream of that - which is "I don't want to have sex with you" So now the question is really about whether you want to have sex with someone who really doesn't want to have sex with you. It's hard to jump off a cliff into dark stormy water, and that's just what it feels like to embark on a divorce. I recall the 9/11 videos of people who seemed to choose their fate by jumping out of a window rather than burning. You are looking at your life so far, and your life ahead - that life yet unlived- and realizing it isn't going to happen the way you imagined. That's just not on offer and it's not in your control. I found it easier to make a decision in my case when I switched my framing from "Do I get a divorce?" to "Do I have a marriage?". Approaching it that way allowed me to see much more easily that I had a view of what a marriage is, and the relationship I had lived and was aimed at for the forseeable future was not what I would have ever called a marriage. It fell way short of my bottom qualifiers, even though there may have been love in the relationship. After that, a divorce is just an administrative process for what I already know to be true. |
|
m76
Full Member
Posts: 377
|
Post by m76 on Aug 10, 2024 17:54:55 GMT -5
I've been having a rough time for a couple of weeks now. So in counciling I had expressed that my minimum needs are some kind of sexual touch one a week. That really is bare minimum, I'd of course would rather have sex everyday if I could. So we worked out our intimacy date nights. Last date night didn't go well (I was touching her "wrong") and the mood was killed after she told me she felt I was treating her like a toy. For context I was accidently brushing my hand on her ear which she doesn't like. The date before that one was cancelled and this week's didn't happen either. In addition to this I was helping her move stuff back into the house from an author's thing she had gone to and I noticed the LGBTQA flag and an asexual (ace) flag that she displayed on her sale table. When i saw those flags it hit me hard that she will never want or desire me. A few observations: I have dated an author for a while. As a former Literature major myself, it was no surprise to me to see that she and a large part of her "industry" (the associations, clientele/patrons/grants, festivals, awards committees) had been "ideologically captured" by neo-Marxism reskinned as identity-politics, in which claims about sexual preference are perceived as proxies for higher morality. The clinical number of aesexuals is very, very small. There may be a higher number of Austistic 1 or ASD 2 people who are functionally aesexual in practice, but as a result of their autism. Claiming to be a one of the alphabet + acronym identities by virtue of some invisible and non-provable peccadillo, or just by describing a default notion that occurs to most everyone, is happening a lot these days, and seems to be important within authors' circles. I've dated many divorced and separated women who thought they were aesxual when in a relationship they no longer wanted, and who certainly proved themselves wrong post marriage. The former Mrs Apocrypha tried to make the same claims, even when she was sustaining a deeply sexual affair, and throughout robust sexual adventures she initiated while in an open relationship, and again, when separated. She's not aesexual in any way, yet still feels it is important to her (somehow the sexual adventures are her way of posing "fighting against it"). It's very unlikely that she's aesexual - particularly if you recall a period in your relationship where she was not. It's more likely right now that she's trying to use the Alphabet Maoist movement as some kind of shield to circumvent the difficult examination of her behavior and choices. If it's "your identity", instead of just something you are doing, you get to lean into it, and you get status in certain crowds. This shouldn't have been any surprise to you if you are in a functional marriage "barring the sex" as people often say. So, you are faced with two choices in how to take this. She's either aesexual for real, to the point of having a literal flag on her desk about it, and relaxing into it because it's who she is for real, or she's made a choice to "present" this way falsely, either mistakenly, or perhaps to claim status for herself and to use as a shield to dissuade you from pushing her to have sex with you that she doesn't want to have. Either way, she doesn't want to have sex with you. She's shown you this across more than a year, and now that you are in therapy and presumably negotiations, is really leaning into this. So how do you approach it? What's the problem to solve here? You've been going off "# of sexual interactions" but she just put a spotlight on what's upstream of that - which is "I don't want to have sex with you" So now the question is really about whether you want to have sex with someone who really doesn't want to have sex with you. It's hard to jump off a cliff into dark stormy water, and that's just what it feels like to embark on a divorce. I recall the 9/11 videos of people who seemed to choose their fate by jumping out of a window rather than burning. You are looking at your life so far, and your life ahead - that life yet unlived- and realizing it isn't going to happen the way you imagined. That's just not on offer and it's not in your control. I found it easier to make a decision in my case when I switched my framing from "Do I get a divorce?" to "Do I have a marriage?". Approaching it that way allowed me to see much more easily that I had a view of what a marriage is, and the relationship I had lived and was aimed at for the forseeable future was not what I would have ever called a marriage. It fell way short of my bottom qualifiers, even though there may have been love in the relationship. After that, a divorce is just an administrative process for what I already know to be true. All good points. I would have left a couple of months ago if not for my son and wanting to maintain a stable environment for his last year of high school. Since I'm still in the relationship I'm making every effort while I'm here to improve the situation. Things have gotten a bit better, admittedly only baby steps. For example when I started posting here my wife wouldn't cuddle, hug or kiss. In the past few months we've moved up to regular cuddling, to her touching me sexually to on at least one occurance me touching her sexually. In our counciling sessions I've made it clear my minimum is sex or mutual sexual touching once a week. That's the minimum. If we don't reach that before my son is done high school I'll be gone. Edit: on another note I talked to some asexuals on reddit many of them said lack of showing affection is not a normal thing for asexuals. Usually there is still cuddles and other ways to show physical affection without sex. |
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Aug 12, 2024 16:53:48 GMT -5
Since I'm still in the relationship I'm making every effort while I'm here to improve the situation. Things have gotten a bit better, admittedly only baby steps. For example when I started posting here my wife wouldn't cuddle, hug or kiss. In the past few months we've moved up to regular cuddling, to her touching me sexually to on at least one occurance me touching her sexually. In our counciling sessions I've made it clear my minimum is sex or mutual sexual touching once a week. That's the minimum. If we don't reach that before my son is done high school I'll be gone. Edit: on another note I talked to some asexuals on reddit many of them said lack of showing affection is not a normal thing for asexuals. Usually there is still cuddles and other ways to show physical affection without sex. If you are still in the relationship, it makes sense to make every effort to improve "the situation"; however, I see that you have switched back to "# of intimate touches" as the measure of progress or failure. I get it - I started there too. I'm trying to shine a light on a different thing: which is "Does she want to have sex with you?" You can mislead yourself into thinking her performance is "progress" when it could be just as likely she's deepening her contempt because she sees you as someone who wants compliance with your sexual needs, irrespective of whether she sees you as a sexual partner. If you are biding time and want to create "progress" that you can actually control, I suggest focusing on yourself. Imagine a future some years in a future where you don't depend on her for your happiness. Maybe you are dating someone or maybe you are experiencing and enjoying life as a single man. What does that look like? What do you look like? What kinds of things do you do in that future? What makes you an interesting and attractive person with interesting experiences and stories to tell, and a rich social life? Work to develop those things - a version of the person you were before you got married. It's not the wrong answer to work on yourself, for yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Aug 13, 2024 7:31:11 GMT -5
Minor breakthrough last night - she has a head cold, so no kissing (we discussed and it's been 8 years since anything but a peck kiss), she said she will as soon as her head cold clears up. But, she cuddled, snuggled in close, touching occurred and sex was discussed but not engaged although mutual petting was had. and just when I thought she was drifting off to sleep, she moved over and put my arm around her on her breast to sleep. So, not quite there yet
|
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 13, 2024 9:13:08 GMT -5
Minor breakthrough last night - she has a head cold, so no kissing (we discussed and it's been 8 years since anything but a peck kiss), she said she will as soon as her head cold clears up. But, she cuddled, snuggled in close, touching occurred and sex was discussed but not engaged although mutual petting was had. and just when I thought she was drifting off to sleep, she moved over and put my arm around her on her breast to sleep. So, not quite there yet I wouldn't read too much into this. Her actions suggest to me she was just looking for some comfort, not really seeking more intimacy from you. Often we see what we want to see in the actions or behavior of our refusers. A far more convincing action would have been her reaching over and giving your penis a squeeze or perhaps giving it a good night kiss. Neither of these acts would spread her cold to you. Maybe it is just my callus nature after so many years of reading on SM forums. But I have seen hope dashed so many times I cannot help but advise caution against it. |
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Aug 13, 2024 13:47:05 GMT -5
Not putting too much of "hopium" into this - but it wasn't just cuddling, personal touch was involved - although no outright genital grabbing, other than her breasts, and my naked stomach, butt and lower torso
|
|
|
|
Post by deadzone75 on Aug 22, 2024 9:32:23 GMT -5
Minor breakthrough last night - she has a head cold, so no kissing (we discussed and it's been 8 years since anything but a peck kiss), she said she will as soon as her head cold clears up. But, she cuddled, snuggled in close, touching occurred and sex was discussed but not engaged although mutual petting was had. and just when I thought she was drifting off to sleep, she moved over and put my arm around her on her breast to sleep. So, not quite there yet I wouldn't read too much into this. Her actions suggest to me she was just looking for some comfort, not really seeking more intimacy from you. Often we see what we want to see in the actions or behavior of our refusers. A far more convincing action would have been her reaching over and giving your penis a squeeze or perhaps giving it a good night kiss. Neither of these acts would spread her cold to you. Maybe it is just my callus nature after so many years of reading on SM forums. But I have seen hope dashed so many times I cannot help but advise caution against it. Yup. The 'ol "as soon as I feel better" bit. |
|
|
|
Post by lonelytiger on Aug 22, 2024 11:33:44 GMT -5
I am seeing the same thing. After the surprise I got over the weekend it's been nothing since even though she's hinted several times this week, and she wonders why I'm such a grouchy mood.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonelytiger on Aug 25, 2024 12:22:16 GMT -5
Now she says I’m emotionally manipulative. I can’t win for anything.
|
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Aug 29, 2024 5:35:04 GMT -5
I am seeing the same thing. After the surprise I got over the weekend it's been nothing since even though she's hinted several times this week, and she wonders why I'm such a grouchy mood. Now she says I’m emotionally manipulative. I can’t win for anything. She's flirting. Feeling sexy after that one romp. Doesn't want to feel obligated to give any more. Likes the chase, the banter, the interaction, the dance. You get upset because it doesn't lead to anything. She's upset because you're not finding the dance, by itself, enjoyable. Treat her like a flirty co-worker. Someone it would be irresponsible to actually follow through with. Do the dance. Know that a dance is all it is and can be. (except when she decides it can be more; which is not, and won't be, affected by your words, desires, or actions) Makes me think of Joshua from WarGames: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play." Give her what she wants, don't be surprised when you get nothing you want in return. Life gets easier and it may make transition easier. Removal of your needs removes strife, but empties the value of the marriage for you... but that's fine. It's what you've got and what you'll get. Expecting more doesn't make it show up under the current dynamic. Start plans for a life you want. This isn't it. Focusing on a life you want will provide progress which is within your control. It should go without saying: assume sex with Mrs. Toughtiger is not part of that life. Or, I'm wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by lonelytiger on Sept 1, 2024 5:38:29 GMT -5
I officially give up. We had a blow up last night over the rules of sex that apparently I have to follow now. I do not desire her sexually anymore and it’s a turn off now to even approach wanting sex now. I’m tired of having to think about so many rules and regulations in order for it to happen. I just need to figure out my next move.
|
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Sept 2, 2024 6:05:20 GMT -5
I officially give up. We had a blow up last night over the rules of sex that apparently I have to follow now. I do not desire her sexually anymore and it’s a turn off now to even approach wanting sex now. I’m tired of having to think about so many rules and regulations in order for it to happen. I just need to figure out my next move. has said "Uncle" and wants out. Maybe both of you can brainstorm answers or exits? iliasm.org/post/151942/thread |
|
