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Post by mirrororchid on May 29, 2020 6:21:36 GMT -5
I agree with most of what apocrypha says above. My dating experiences have been similar for the most part. Since my divorce 5 yrs. ago I have only been intimate with 2 women, both of them for extended periods of over a year each. And with both of them we were intimate on the 4th date. Like apocrypha when I see certain words in a profile or terms like "I am leading a rich, full life" or "friends first, then we'll see", I take them to be a red flag. Religion gets knocked around a lot here but a persons being religious really isn't the most important box and it doesn't deter me as my faith is important to me. And both women above were faithful in their attendance at their churches. Only one woman did I eliminate due to religion. She had to be married before she would consider sex. It takes some time and a careful sizing of peoples profile to mostly avoid those who really aren't good prospects. If I make a misread of the profile usually at the 1st meeting I can determine if a woman is a good candidate for an intimate relationship. All you have to do is ask how they feel about sex and how long has it been since they were intimate. If it isn't important to them and has been years that is a red flag as said above. Fascinating! "I am leading a rich, full life" and "friends first, then we'll see", would not have been red flags for me. I read the first as being, "If only I had someone to get naked with, I'd be good." The second says "I'm holding out for the fourth date" like your other two. These are the ladies who are advertising they aren't suitable for Tinder-style dating. Can anyone share experiences with these or other red flag phrases used by sexually indifferent people looking for friends on dating sites instead of Meetup? PS Wow, how do you broach when their last time was? That is bold, sir.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 29, 2020 7:04:42 GMT -5
Fascinating! "I am leading a rich, full life" and "friends first, then we'll see", would not have been red flags for me. I read the first as being, "If only I had someone to get naked with, I'd be good." The second says "I'm holding out for the fourth date" like your other two. These are the ladies who are advertising they aren't suitable for Tinder-style dating. Can anyone share experiences with these or other red flag phrases used by sexually indifferent people looking for friends on dating sites instead of Meetup? PS Wow, how do you broach when their last time was? That is bold, sir. It's a new world out there my friend. Neither of these avenues of conversation is really bold these days.....Just my experience. My experiences so far with a couple of coffee dates with women who have made the 1st statement in their profiles has been this. If a woman is already leading a rich, full life without being in a relationship, what is she seeking now? Up to this point she has felt no need for a male for intimacy. I have concluded from a couple conversations, so my reference pool is small, that they are primarily seeking a companion. There is nothing wrong with that, but I am not just looking for companionship, so we are not compatible for the long run. So for me it isn't a good investment of my time or money. So my small experience here tells me to pass by a profile with this claim. During a coffee or other type initial meet as part of the conversation dating history almost always comes up. Often the ladies ask the 1st questions like "how long have you been on the dating site, have I dated a lot of women there"? etc. I follow up with similar questions. Have they dated much, what was their longest relationship and ultimately lead in with, "if it isn't too personal, why did that relationship end"? And if they don't bring it up first, and often the do, I ask about their thoughts regarding sex or intimacy. I ask about sex and if it has been a long time for them. Most woman are pretty straight forward in their answer. Either they like sex and want an intimate relationship or it isn't that important to them. Again if the primary goal is companionship or just dating to have someone to do things and go places with then I am not the guy they are looking for.
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Post by northstarmom on May 29, 2020 9:05:11 GMT -5
“ Fascinating! "I am leading a rich, full life" and "friends first, then we'll see", would not have been red flags for me. I read the first as being, "If only I had someone to get naked with, I'd be good." The second says "I'm holding out for the fourth date" like your other two. These are the ladies who are advertising they aren't suitable for Tinder-style dating.”
I could have written either of those. I was looking for a FWB whom I liked and could trust. I didn’t want dick picks , crude solicitations or marriage. I didn’t write that I wanted a fwb because many men would have misinterpreted that to mean I wanted a hookup or was desperate.
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Post by northstarmom on May 29, 2020 9:10:41 GMT -5
Relating to a much earlier comment : I asked post SM partner if he knew men who’d promise not to have sex until he’d dated the same woman for a year.
Partner said: “Men who think women don’t like sex would say that. I know women like sex. I’d never say that.”
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Post by Apocrypha on May 29, 2020 10:48:24 GMT -5
I agree with most of what apocrypha says above. My dating experiences have been similar for the most part. Since my divorce 5 yrs. ago I have only been intimate with 2 women, both of them for extended periods of over a year each. And with both of them we were intimate on the 4th date. Like apocrypha when I see certain words in a profile or terms like "I am leading a rich, full life" or "friends first, then we'll see", I take them to be a red flag. Religion gets knocked around a lot here but a persons being religious really isn't the most important box and it doesn't deter me as my faith is important to me. And both women above were faithful in their attendance at their churches. Only one woman did I eliminate due to religion. She had to be married before she would consider sex. It takes some time and a careful sizing of peoples profile to mostly avoid those who really aren't good prospects. If I make a misread of the profile usually at the 1st meeting I can determine if a woman is a good candidate for an intimate relationship. All you have to do is ask how they feel about sex and how long has it been since they were intimate. If it isn't important to them and has been years that is a red flag as said above. Fascinating! "I am leading a rich, full life" and "friends first, then we'll see", would not have been red flags for me. Clarification - they are not red flags as they are. The context and priority is important. And I didn't begin by flagging them. I have been on a LOT of dates in this city and I have simply looked at the results (as well as my own behavior). I have found that early on in a relationship, with little invested, there is a period of truthtelling that happens. It's a common conversational artifact in which people's motivation, with little personal investment, is to want to feel validated despite what they see as their faults. An example might be sometimes when I've seen men having a "get to know you" over too many beers and they get into a "what happens when you cross me" conversation, where badassery is and aggression tactics are mapped out in a non-threatening context. Every time a date has told me that she "has a sharp tongue" or a "bad temper" sometimes, that has actually indeed always shown up and I've dumped them for it. So near the start of a date, I listen really hard for what a date tells me about herself first and I believe it. And thus, every time I've found a perfect storm of that set of comments, established up front in the profile and often before the first drink arrives or is even ordered, I know that this is a person who likely is averse to a connection (and this is always reinforced later in the conversation about her dating history and lack thereof). It's person who either has a massive blind spot on her own motivations, or a narcissist (usually never married no kids) who views dating as an activity in itself and not a tool with which to build something. These comments or revelations in some combination - established very early in the conversation: "My life is perfect right now." "I really don't need a guy/anyone at all, my life has been fine the way it is, but I think it would just be nice to ..." "I'm looking for the perfect guy for a long term relationship and I feel no urgency" "Looking for a friendship and see what happens later." Single for a year or more - with total aplomb about it. HEAVILY programmed - often too many pets, activities, accountabilities - all a part of the existing "perfect life" Lately I've been drilling down a bit into the urgency question once familiarity is established and, 3 for 3, I've found this revelation when asking pointed questions about "human needs". This is when they usually bring up the "side-guy" or occasional long term "fwb". So the date and the long road is for "husband material" but the side-guy is sincerely considered an aspect of "self-care" like going to the gym, and not what it is - which is a limited and unsatisfying relationship in which they are already engaged. It's often offered without a hint of self-awareness - as if it will be taken as further evidence by me of the virtue of independence, "being strong", and a practical solution to clear headedness when seeking a long term partner. Smart, professional, accomplished women. Shockingly, no matter how long I've stuck through meets like this, no matter how much mutual effort is sincerely invested in optimistic relationship upkeep, this "friends and see what happens" statement - in that context - ends up in the "friendzone" To tie this back to those who ARE invested in existing relationships that have gone sexless though, I find that the same discipline in listening and believing what they say actually is helpful in coming to the truth or your situation and what you should DO about it. I can think of a MILLION times I had The Talk or some variant with Mrs Apocrypha, in therapy or out of it when she articulated very clearly her emphasis on "friends". "I miss being your friend" (and we started with 3-4 years of FWB low grade ambivalence mainly on my part toward her, with infrequent sex). I did not listen, and instead both of us treated this as a problem to be solved.
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Post by saarinista on May 29, 2020 10:50:04 GMT -5
Boy, it is a brave new world out there with respect to dating, etc.
I absolutely hate the catch phrases, deception and double speak one has to wade through to have a relationship with a potential partner.
Dating sucks. Actually, that's a lot of the reason I got married. Why can't we just be candid about what we want? Trendy cliches are so tiresome. Blech. 🥴
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Post by saarinista on May 29, 2020 10:55:39 GMT -5
“ Fascinating! "I am leading a rich, full life" and "friends first, then we'll see", would not have been red flags for me. I read the first as being, "If only I had someone to get naked with, I'd be good." The second says "I'm holding out for the fourth date" like your other two. These are the ladies who are advertising they aren't suitable for Tinder-style dating.” I could have written either of those. I was looking for a FWB whom I liked and could trust. I didn’t want dick picks , crude solicitations or marriage. I didn’t write that I wanted a fwb because many men would have misinterpreted that to mean I wanted a hookup or was desperate. So are lots of people having sex with enemies? 😁 Actually, my life ISN'T rich and full. I hope I don't have to wait until it's perfect to get laid or I'm in trouble! It can't be that rich and full without shared sexuality. 🤦♀️ Good Lord. Maybe I should write personal ads for the sexless. How about a little honesty and creativity, folks?
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Post by Apocrypha on May 29, 2020 11:18:37 GMT -5
My experiences so far with a couple of coffee dates with women who have made the 1st statement in their profiles has been this. If a woman is already leading a rich, full life without being in a relationship, what is she seeking now? Up to this point she has felt no need for a male for intimacy. I have concluded from a couple conversations, so my reference pool is small, that they are primarily seeking a companion. There is nothing wrong with that, but I am not just looking for companionship, so we are not compatible for the long run. So for me it isn't a good investment of my time or money. So my small experience here tells me to pass by a profile with this claim. I've had quite a bit of experience here now, and I think your instinct is dead on in that context. There are a lot of women who specifically seek out intense platonic male relationships. Gay men have a playful term for it which I won't utter here. One of my last dates whose opening conversation fixed there, was lifelong single, celibate for a long time, completely happy with her life as is, and I think even used the word "companion". I believe she met a guy on vacation, and from what I mapped out, seemed to define her ideal as a "husband material" sort, who materialized as an intimate companion while on major vacations once or twice a year but who otherwise did not infringe, but who also would need to have a depth of emotional familiarity and exclusivity from others established in order to provide the basis for the vacation intimacy she wanted. In other words, the DNA for a sexless marriage is baked right into her request. I find often that these people have a blind spot around this. Like they really aren't aware that it's unusual at all, or that others might not be showing up to date them with a different goal.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 29, 2020 14:09:00 GMT -5
So are lots of people having sex with enemies? 😁 Actually, my life ISN'T rich and full. I hope I don't have to wait until it's perfect to get laid or I'm in trouble! It can't be that rich and full without shared sexuality. 🤦♀️ Good Lord. Maybe I should write personal ads for the sexless. How about a little honesty and creativity, folks? Expanding on the "rich, full life". Apocrypha saw some of the same things I did. The women who say this usually have a pretty packed schedule for the most part. Pets, family, lots of travel, sight seeing activities. They're focused on their "bucket list" or checking off activities that they have always wanted to do, but were not able to do when married or building a career, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I came away from the meet(s) feeling like any male who bought into her would play the role of an accessory rather than that of a partner in a shared journey into life, unless he is also keen on lots of travel and a jam packed schedule. Their life is so full I wonder where in the hierarchy of priorities does any male fit in. The "life is perfect but it would be nice to have someone to share it with" is something I have seen before in profiles. Their profiles are creative but I don't think they are honest. Most say they want a relationship. What I perceive (perhaps wrongly) is more of a tilt toward a fwb or companion where there might be some occasional sex when time and circumstances allow. And if they would state that then I would be OK with it as an unconventional relationship. But that might make them appear like they were looking for an occasional or regular hookup which could be perceived as immoral if seen by friends or family.
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Post by saarinista on May 29, 2020 14:31:58 GMT -5
Well, worksforme2 I guess you just have to meet them and talk to find out. Maybe they just have lots of energy. But if you don't want to travel as well as have sex, it might not work. If you do, split the bills. I just wish we could get past the coyness at some point. If they look interesting, check them out! If they act like they don't like sex, don't have another date. I think there's nothing wrong with asking about that in some lighthearted way on the first meeting. That may not be easy, but the alternative is wasted time. The older we get, the less time we have to waste-especially when we've wasted so much already.
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Post by Apocrypha on May 29, 2020 20:50:03 GMT -5
Expanding on the "rich, full life". Apocrypha saw some of the same things I did. The women who say this usually have a pretty packed schedule for the most part. Pets, family, lots of travel, sight seeing activities. They're focused on their "bucket list" or checking off activities that they have always wanted to do, but were not able to do when married or building a career, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I came away from the meet(s) feeling like any male who bought into her would play the role of an accessory rather than that of a partner in a shared journey into life, unless he is also keen on lots of travel and a jam packed schedule. Their life is so full I wonder where in the hierarchy of priorities does any male fit in. The "life is perfect but it would be nice to have someone to share it with" is something I have seen before in profiles. Their profiles are creative but I don't think they are honest. Most say they want a relationship. What I perceive (perhaps wrongly) is more of a tilt toward a fwb or companion where there might be some occasional sex when time and circumstances allow. And if they would state that then I would be OK with it as an unconventional relationship. But that might make them appear like they were looking for an occasional or regular hookup which could be perceived as immoral if seen by friends or family. I see so much of this and have dated many - and 100% goes nowhere/.
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Post by saarinista on May 29, 2020 20:58:46 GMT -5
Apocrypha when you say you see a lot of this and things go nowhere, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean women indicate they are interested in a relationship but mainly want just want you to show up and chat/ pay for activities? Or do you mean they say their lives are full and sure enough, their lives ARE full, but that's about all you can find is women with lives too full for sex? 🤔 Or is it something else entirely? I have no clue what dating is like in your 50s.
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Post by Apocrypha on May 29, 2020 21:07:27 GMT -5
Apocrypha when you say you see a lot of this and things go nowhere, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean women indicate they are interested in a relationship but mainly want just want you to show up and chat/ pay for activities? This. Dating is an activity in itself, as opposed to a means toward building something more. I am 49 to be exact - though I look much younger. I mean that their lives are fully programmed and what they say, is that they are looking for companions when on vacation or things, and to hang out. But without any space or impulse or urgency to have a guy in their lives.
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Post by Handy on May 29, 2020 22:37:32 GMT -5
Saarinista Do you mean women indicate they are interested in a relationship but mainly want just want you to show up and chat/ pay for activities?Close, but more like, women indicate they are interested in a relationship but mainly just want you to show up and chat and to do a few activities or chores they need help with.
A few say one H was enough and they think that most men are alike. Now they want to do what they want, when they feel like it.
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Post by saarinista on May 29, 2020 23:24:54 GMT -5
Do you guys WANT to get married? Where were you when I was 25 and all I met were selfish commitment phobes? 🤔🙄
Sometimes I, too, think men are all alike: frustrating. 🤦♀️
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