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Post by mirrororchid on May 25, 2020 7:10:47 GMT -5
I'd like to see the church chill about divorce, where appropriate. Honestly, not all marriages can or should be saved. Some people marry the wrong person and would be happier with another person. Sometimes people just grow apart. Not every marriage can be fixed and I wish to God churches would stop acting like every marriage must to be saved or God will be pissed. That's just my view. Ideally, every marriage lasts forever. But we live in the real world. ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
- Mark 10:10–12 Not much wiggle room there. We better count on Luther for help. Smite the refusers! Especially if they like it.
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 7:40:19 GMT -5
Even the church thinks that husbands and wives should have sex in their marriage. Basic. I got married in church in front of god as did my wife. At her request I might add. But either way, I took the oath too. So she is breaking the oath that she wanted to take. But either way you can’t detatch marriage from sex. It is what it is. I ain’t gonna be mean to nobody but I won’t do anything for a woman that isn’t married to me and I am not gonna be married to a cold woman.
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 7:44:39 GMT -5
“”You aren't close. That much is true. That she is cold? She might be to you, but that does not mean she is overall.”” From my experience it does mean that. I not saying I’d want my a wife to be that into sex but I wouldn’t want her to be cold - and some women just are mate. Where have you been...
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 7:56:58 GMT -5
I'd like to see the church chill about divorce, where appropriate. Honestly, not all marriages can or should be saved. Some people marry the wrong person and would be happier with another person. Sometimes people just grow apart. Not every marriage can be fixed and I wish to God churches would stop acting like every marriage must to be saved or God will be pissed. That's just my view. Ideally, every marriage lasts forever. But we live in the real world. ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
- Mark 10:10–12 Not much wiggle room there. We better count on Luther for help. Smite the refusers! Especially if they like it. I go with what the church makes of sex and marriage. I think the church is right.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 25, 2020 8:18:30 GMT -5
‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
- Mark 10:10–12 Not much wiggle room there. We better count on Luther for help. Smite the refusers! Especially if they like it. I go with what the church makes of sex and marriage. I think the church is right. I'd recalled a passage where Jesus gave tacit approval to divorce so I went to refresh my memory. It wasn't Jesus directly, but his citing of Moses. Both Jesus and the Pharisees were loathe to say Moses got some part of Judaism wrong. Jesus likely wouldn't have cited Moses for something he disagreed with so saying Jesus' view is the same isn't a stretch. A small part of this essay covers it and extrapolates to what troubled marriages might choose to do.(fair warning, much of the rest is hardcore Bible-thumping fundamentalism, but even a blindfolded monkey throwing darts hits a bullseye sometimes. Do a search for "Moses" to skip ahead) www.raystedman.org/new-testament/mark/what-about-divorce I thought it curious about those who divorced finding fault in themselves. Then there are people here who do not regret their decision in the least. I'd be interested in what a devote couple might discuss when determining how each may have "hardened their heart". A refuser strikes most of us as having a hardened heart. The scripture may inspire the spouse to explain how they feel they were merely reciprocating. Even if it doesn't reinvigorate the bedroom, it might produce diminished resentment? (I'm still of the mindset a physical, biological component can underpin refusal. Desire for desire isn't enough every time.) Devotion to the Bible likely would be critical. Plenty of folks like the feeling of belonging church provides, but tend to have less enthusiasm for the work proper practice of Judeo-Christian-Islam requires. To call oneself "Christian" does not mean you are one. Being pious is often inconvenient and unpleasant (at least in the short run.)
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Post by Apocrypha on May 25, 2020 8:38:57 GMT -5
“”You aren't close. That much is true. That she is cold? She might be to you, but that does not mean she is overall.”” From my experience it does mean that. I not saying I’d want my a wife to be that into sex but I wouldn’t want her to be cold - and some women just are mate. Where have you been... I've been married to a celibate, cold woman - self-described even - who cheated on me. Who then embarked on an open relationship with me in which she did the kinds of things you see in Penthouse letters, before turning off again (with me) Who then, went on a tear and had 2-3 boyfriends simultaneously starting the day after our separation. And then I've been 7 years single dating many divorcees, having toe curling, knock-the-lamp-over sex with them - most of whom also thought they were "cold fish" in their marriages. So, I adjusted my thesis when I expanded my experience to that beyond my own relationship with my partner, and stopped extrapolating my own dynamic with her to make it into some kind of universal thing - based on the facts and evidence before me.
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 9:33:28 GMT -5
None of those women sound like somebody that I’d be interested in a relationship with. They just sound promiscuous. I look more for the quality in a woman rather than a cheap lay. Most cheap women are cold in their hearts and minds. I don’t want no trouble maker.
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Post by Apocrypha on May 25, 2020 9:46:47 GMT -5
None of those women sound like somebody that I’d be interested in a relationship with. They just sound promiscuous. I look more for the quality in a woman rather than a cheap lay. Most cheap women are cold in their hearts and minds. I don’t want no trouble maker. Actually, none of them were a "cheap lay" - and a big "fuck you" for saying so, carl . And it isn't really at issue whether any of them are interested in you, or you in them. For example, the most recent was a lovely woman, deeply Christian and churchgoing, married 12 years, and I was her first outside of marriage. It lasted 2-years, with blending families, talking marriage, and ended heart-breakingly, due to distance. I think you are reading and making up what you want to think about what you are dealing with, insulting me and my partners - because the truth of your own situation is too painful to look at. It's way easier to think she's just forgotten how to do marriage or to have sex - like forgetting how to speak a language, or the lyrics of a song - and just needs to be reminded or encouraged, than it is to realize that she prefers not to, with you. But whether she doesn't like sex in general, or doesn't like it with you, and whether in your opinion other people are dating sluts or Mother Mary-- the person you are with obviously doesn't want to have sex with you. None of those things change that. What's your gameplan with that - do you want her to go through with it and have sex with you even though she doesn't want to? Use her like a meatbag while she lays there, turned off or disgusted?
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 9:55:22 GMT -5
I go with what the church makes of sex and marriage. I think the church is right. I'd recalled a passage where Jesus gave tacit approval to divorce so I went to refresh my memory. It wasn't Jesus directly, but his citing of Moses. Both Jesus and the Pharisees were loathe to say Moses got some part of Judaism wrong. Jesus likely wouldn't have cited Moses for something he disagreed with so saying Jesus' view is the same isn't a stretch. A small part of this essay covers it and extrapolates to what troubled marriages might choose to do.(fair warning, much of the rest is hardcore Bible-thumping fundamentalism, but even a blindfolded monkey throwing darts hits a bullseye sometimes. Do a search for "Moses" to skip ahead) www.raystedman.org/new-testament/mark/what-about-divorce I thought it curious about those who divorced finding fault in themselves. Then there are people here who do not regret their decision in the least. I'd be interested in what a devote couple might discuss when determining how each may have "hardened their heart". A refuser strikes most of us as having a hardened heart. The scripture may inspire the spouse to explain how they feel they were merely reciprocating. Even if it doesn't reinvigorate the bedroom, it might produce diminished resentment? (I'm still of the mindset a physical, biological component can underpin refusal. Desire for desire isn't enough every time.) Devotion to the Bible likely would be critical. Plenty of folks like the feeling of belonging church provides, but tend to have less enthusiasm for the work proper practice of Judeo-Christian-Islam requires. To call oneself "Christian" does not mean you are one. Being pious is often inconvenient and unpleasant (at least in the sort run.) I choose to live by and follow Gods ways as far as I can understand to do so. I look to God for direction and help through the bible and prayer. Mainly not to do with marriage or sex but that too. It’s important as much as everything else.
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 10:41:33 GMT -5
Apocrypha I can see you are angry and I am sorry that you feel insulted. Maybe that’s an area that you feel sensitive about. I don’t feel afraid to talk about it although I can see you are. What I am trying to get across to you is that I am a very straight forward guy when it comes to sex and marriage. I am not interested in complicated affairs or extra marital experiments or games. As a man i would always loose these games so I would never get involved. I will never have any peace, security or love in the unstable situations you describe. They just sound dangerous and unsettling but if it works for you.... NB I still think my wife just has a tendency towards being cold sexually by nature. It’s just unlucky plain and simple.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 25, 2020 11:52:28 GMT -5
None of those women sound like somebody that I’d be interested in a relationship with. They just sound promiscuous. I look more for the quality in a woman rather than a cheap lay. Most cheap women are cold in their hearts and minds. I don’t want no trouble maker. I'll let apocrypha respond as he will, but I would like to question your apparent displeasure with "promiscuous" women. (regardless of the disposition of apocrypha's lady-loves, unknown as they are) Your distaste for free-spirited lifestyles is widely accepted, but perhaps you're a bit too comfortable accepting it as ultimate truth. It's not just you. You have plenty of company and the societal change that needs to take place needs to be talked about more. Your comment merely served as a convenient pretext. Don't take it as an attack. I'm putting this out there to make an uncommon philosophy more widely discussed and perhaps practiced. I'd like to not just defend "promiscuous" women, but praise them. The fixation we have with chastity for women, coupled with the undeniable (if un-"Christian") prestige with being a "ladies' man" leads would-be Casanovas to masquerade as committed suitors, even while lusty women are shamed if they do not pretend to be exclusively marriage minded and strictly monogamous. This insane set-up encourages "Players" to hoodwink truly demure women that seek deep commitment while it pointlessly starves the women who have no such compulsion. How much better a world might this be if everyone told the truth? More women who crave your exclusive taste for wholesome bonding in mind-body-and spirit wouldn't be occupied with pretenders. These women think they are "taken", but are instead blocked from their true goal. (a life with you?) Women who would like to drink deep from the life of experiences hedonism offers could be sating these "cads" and be utterly content. Instead, those "promiscuous" men end up going through the motions of courtship and domestic life, always wishing there were more physicality to the relationship. Sex would be out there to be had, if such carnal amusement by women weren't viciously condemned. I say this as a man who has been with women for 2 years, followed by 2 1/2, then 23 and still going. You'll be hard pressed to find a guy more commitment minded than I, yet I find "slut-shaming" entirely counter-productive to the interests of hedonistic and traditional lifestyle choices alike. If we could respect others' sexual behavior choices more (even if we reject them personally), we may all end up in more satisfying relationships better suited to our mindsets. Further the purging of the harsh judgement might have the ancillary effect of removing the "dirty" reputation of sex that poisons the minds of Christian women who have a hard time shutting off the revulsion they have with sex just because they wear a ring on the right finger now. Slut-shaming may be partially to blame for some of the sexlessness this fine group experiences. If you want more sex, is it a good idea to wag your finger at women that want more sex? Free-spirited women everywhere... carry on.
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Post by northstarmom on May 25, 2020 13:19:38 GMT -5
Carl: “ None of those women sound like somebody that I’d be interested in a relationship with. They just sound promiscuous. I look more for the quality in a woman rather than a cheap lay. Most cheap women are cold in their hearts and minds. I don’t want no trouble maker.”
Looks like you look down on women who enjoy sex. I see why you ended up with a “cold” woman.
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 13:21:45 GMT -5
I personally don’t believe what you are saying. But that’s just me. It might work for you or others but I want to live a certain way myself and share my life with a woman of a certain character who wants to live in that way too. I don’t want to get involved in anything else. I want my woman to feel safe with me and I want to feel safe with them and that’s where I feel that I’d want a sexual relationship. That’s just how I am.
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Post by csl on May 25, 2020 13:27:55 GMT -5
I'd like to see the church chill about divorce, where appropriate. Honestly, not all marriages can or should be saved. Some people marry the wrong person and would be happier with another person. Sometimes people just grow apart. Not every marriage can be fixed and I wish to God churches would stop acting like every marriage must to be saved or God will be pissed. That's just my view. Ideally, every marriage lasts forever. But we live in the real world. ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
- Mark 10:10–12 Not much wiggle room there. We better count on Luther for help. Smite the refusers! Especially if they like it. Actually, there IS "wiggle room", but you have to actually know the complete context of the discussion in the gospels to understand it. I dealt with that in the 4-part series on Divorce: Scarlet Letter or Valid Option? on my blog. (I do hate to sound like a commercial, but reading my blog posts is a lot cheaper than buying and reading David Instone-Brewer's two books on Divorce & Remarriage. But they make for much more erudite reading, I promise you that.) Anyway, this --> link<-- will take you to the first of the Scarlet Letter posts. (oh, and the "especially if they like it" bit? I see what you did there. Yuck!)
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Post by carl on May 25, 2020 13:33:41 GMT -5
Carl: “ None of those women sound like somebody that I’d be interested in a relationship with. They just sound promiscuous. I look more for the quality in a woman rather than a cheap lay. Most cheap women are cold in their hearts and minds. I don’t want no trouble maker.” Looks like you look down on women who enjoy sex. I see why you ended up with a “cold” woman. I honestly don’t look down on women who enjoy sex at all. But I can be a bit provocative sometimes. What I am saying is that I personally don’t feel comfortable with a woman unless they are, I don’t know, careful and kind around sex. I just don’t want to get hurt or into trouble. I like women who are sensitive, which I know is kind of lame, but that just works better for me. Maybe I hope I’ll be with a women who wants the same. And I guess I’ll hold out for that.
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