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Post by carl on May 16, 2020 5:54:38 GMT -5
I have been completely sexless in my marriage for over a year and a half now and relatively sexless for several years prior to that. The complete omission of sex has better allowed me to think and come to some decisions. I have read a lot from as many different views mainly over the internet and really tried to understand the issue of sex and marriage. There has been a thread about whether sex is a basic human need and I think this is an important issue. Firstly, I read so many accounts about how to fix a sexless marriage. And they all seem to follow a very similar theme. The man in the marriage is advised to generally be a complete slave to his wife in the hope of being rewarded by sex. The man is advised to do all kinds of a long list of exhaustive favours for his wife. I wouldn’t exploit anybody for sex and I was disturbed by the amount of advice on the internet advising men to encourage their wives to exploit them like this. I wonder how many women read these internet sites. How disturbing in a world of so called equality. Sex is a core part of marriage. Without regular sex, unless by consent of both partners, marriage is a fraud and a deception to society as a whole and the marriage should be dissolved. I also think that a sustained sexless marriage is a form of abuse. There are many ways to have relationships with people however marriage involves sex. I would love a second marriage. .
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Post by baza on May 16, 2020 7:02:20 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Sex is NOT a core part of some marriages .... that's the whole problem. My marriage did not have sex as a core component, neither does your Brother carl . Nor shamwow marriage or h lessingham @whynotm3 and hundreds of other marriages of members in this very group. Sex is NOT a core part of these marriages. Now it may be true that - "Without regular sex, unless by consent of both partners, marriage is a fraud and a deception to society as a whole and the marriage should be dissolved. I also think that a sustained sexless marriage is a form of abuse"In that scenario many people in this group would agree that such marriages ought be ended .... and that's exactly what many people do. They regard the lack of sex as egregious behaviour and end their marriages. There are many many examples in this group of this. If you regard the absence of sex as egregious enough, then you end the marriage. Lots of members here have done that. If you don't regard the absence of sex as egregious enough then you don't. Even more members here adopt that position. They are both legitimate positions to take. There's not much point in blaming outside factors or societal attitudes for ones ILIASM deal, particularly when the resolution to the problem is in your own hands. Edited to include this - If you are holding a view moral position that "sex is a core part of marriage" then your actions (of staying in an ILIASM deal) are rather at odds with the stated moral position being espoused. Either the moral position needs a pretty radical revision, or your actions do.
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Post by northstarmom on May 16, 2020 7:46:27 GMT -5
Carl: “ I would love a second marriage.”
What steps are you taking to reach that goal?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 14:04:14 GMT -5
Not quite miserable enough to leave and seek happiness? No quite content enough to stay and be happy? Where's that line drawn? Everyone's line is different. Everyone chooses their own path to happiness or accepts what is dealt to them silently. For me, after I time, I get tired of hearing myself bitch and complain. Some action must be taken IMO. That's just me though. I completely upended my life last Fall. The dust is still settling. While I have days (like I'm having today) where I'm very sad and down, most days are calm and much more peaceful. For me, the reward has been worth the risk ... at least so far. My mantra has been and will continue to be #peaceatanycost.
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Post by carl on May 16, 2020 17:16:23 GMT -5
Carl: “ I would love a second marriage.” What steps are you taking to reach that goal? The steps that I am taking are firstly to separate our finances. We have previously had joint finances but we no longer do. I have asked my wife to stop being financially dependent on me and she is doing this. I have cut back on how many hours I work to give me more time and energy to develop more of social network and gain strength in my spirit. I feel selfish at times but I tend to stick to my beliefs and as baza said I don’t believe now that by remaining on my wife’s side that I am doing the right thing. I plan to discuss my case for divorce with a solicitor and i will tell my wife that I feel that we should divorce and state my reasons
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Post by northstarmom on May 16, 2020 17:55:46 GMT -5
Tell your wife about your plans only after you've seen a lawyer. You need to know what's at stake financially and otherwise before telling your wife. If you do differently, she may do things that would make it difficult or more expensive to divorce.
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Post by isthisit on May 16, 2020 18:09:13 GMT -5
Carl: “ I would love a second marriage.” What steps are you taking to reach that goal? The steps that I am taking are firstly to separate our finances. We have previously had joint finances but we no longer do. I have asked my wife to stop being financially dependent on me and she is doing this. I have cut back on how many hours I work to give me more time and energy to develop more of social network and gain strength in my spirit. I feel selfish at times but I tend to stick to my beliefs and as baza said I don’t believe now that by remaining on my wife’s side that I am doing the right thing. I plan to discuss my case for divorce with a solicitor and i will tell my wife that I feel that we should divorce and state my reasons Well done carl the first steps are the hardest and it sounds like you are starting to act to effect a change in your situation rather than simply wish for it. That’s not at all easy so give yourself a fair bit of credit with that. By making these changes you are committing yourself to nothing, and giving your W fair warning that you are at the end of your tether. If she wants to invest in your M to save it now would be the time to do so. If she attempts to continue with the status quo you can understand that she does not value the M enough to try to change. The solicitor sounds like a great move too. You never know it may not be as bad as your fear. I also think making the choice to work less to focus re building the social aspects of your life is an excellent idea. This will make you less tired and more interesting, but of which add to your attractiveness to others to find your special someone. I understand your wish for a second opportunity for happiness, and it sounds like your actions today will facilitate this in the future.
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Post by carl on May 16, 2020 18:31:27 GMT -5
I am not going to discuss how I am going to divorce with the person that I am divorcing. Neither will I discuss any terms with her unless my solicitor insists on it. All discussions with her would only be in writing and I would not agree to anything that hadn’t been agreed and set out by law. The only information I will volunteer will be my reason for divorce. And therefore my reason for no longer being hers. I suppose that my wife may want to maintain some interest in my income. Hmmmm. Good luck with that my dear.
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Post by baza on May 16, 2020 19:30:02 GMT -5
You have 2 options Brother carl . #1 - would be to revise your life value downward in respect to sexless marriage so it matches your actions. #2 - would be to take actions that match with your stated life value. #1 would be the easiest thing to do. #2 would be the hardest thing to do. You are choosing #2. Your plan to see a solicitor is sound. Get that advice about how a divorce would shake out for you. Everything else hangs off that.
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Post by csl on May 16, 2020 20:47:19 GMT -5
Not quite miserable enough to leave and seek happiness? No quite content enough to stay and be happy? Where's that line drawn? Everyone's line is different. Everyone chooses their own path to happiness or accepts what is dealt to them silently. For me, after I time, I get tired of hearing myself bitch and complain. Some action must be taken IMO. That's just me though. I completely upended my life last Fall. The dust is still settling. While I have days (like I'm having today) where I'm very sad and down, most days are calm and much more peaceful. For me, the reward has been worth the risk ... at least so far. My mantra has been and will continue to be #peaceatanycost. Have you been reading my blog? 1 - Not quite miserable enough to leave and seek happiness? Only when you Truly Miserable. 2 - No quite content enough to stay and be happy? The Plucked Chicken post. 3 - "My mantra has been and will continue to be #peaceatanycost" - Or you could swap out Neville Chamberlain with Patrick Henry: “Is homelife so dear or marital peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!” (Non-apologies to those who get the vapors whenever a Christian writes, but them's the breaks.)
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Post by csl on May 16, 2020 20:53:18 GMT -5
Firstly, I read so many accounts about how to fix a sexless marriage. And they all seem to follow a very similar theme. The man in the marriage is advised to generally be a complete slave to his wife in the hope of being rewarded by sex. The man is advised to do all kinds of a long list of exhaustive favours for his wife. I wouldn’t exploit anybody for sex and I was disturbed by the amount of advice on the internet advising men to encourage their wives to exploit them like this. I wonder how many women read these internet sites. How disturbing in a world of so called equality. Ah, yes. In the Church, it's called "Servant Leadership". I wrote several posts on my blog eviscerating (weill, in my eyes, anyway) this teaching. In this post, I compare the so-called Servant Leader to the old Casper Milquetoast character. Always remember that the Milquetoast has the final word: "Yes, dear." (I was particularly pleased with the graphic I created for the post:
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 20:57:13 GMT -5
Not quite miserable enough to leave and seek happiness? No quite content enough to stay and be happy? Where's that line drawn? Everyone's line is different. Everyone chooses their own path to happiness or accepts what is dealt to them silently. For me, after I time, I get tired of hearing myself bitch and complain. Some action must be taken IMO. That's just me though. I completely upended my life last Fall. The dust is still settling. While I have days (like I'm having today) where I'm very sad and down, most days are calm and much more peaceful. For me, the reward has been worth the risk ... at least so far. My mantra has been and will continue to be #peaceatanycost. Have you been reading my blog? 1 - Not quite miserable enough to leave and seek happiness? Only when you Truly Miserable. 2 - No quite content enough to stay and be happy? The Plucked Chicken post. 3 - "My mantra has been and will continue to be #peaceatanycost" - Or you could swap out Neville Chamberlain with Patrick Henry: “Is homelife so dear or marital peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!” (Non-apologies to those who get the vapors whenever a Christian writes, but them's the breaks.) Sorry csl but I have not. lol! Did not know it even existed. Perhaps I shall have to check it out, though. Those are just painful truths I came to on my own in the process of going through my own personal nightmare.
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Post by angeleyes65 on May 17, 2020 13:37:16 GMT -5
I agree turning a man into a slave is not going to guarantee a good sex life nor should it be necessary but I think this is where that thinking came from. Back in my day women were basically expected to do the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, as well as primary child care regardless if she worked outside the home or not. And I can tell you I was both a stay at home mom and a work outside the home mom and either way you work damn hard. The thought behind most of those articles is by the time you have a time for sex the woman is too exhausted to care and if she gets no help may also feel disrespected and treated as an employee . And have a hard time switching from mom and house keeper to sexy goddess. So if the man looked at everything he was doing and everything she was doing and they were heavy on her side that he take on some of the things he can to better the odds that she isn't exhausted or pissed off. I think now days things are more evenly split. Anyway that's where that thinking comes from .
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Post by carl on May 17, 2020 18:45:42 GMT -5
I think that back in the day when my wife started to act like a stranger to me sexually I was pretty much flat out either working at my job or at home. Sex started to become something that I should need and I had to earn from her. It changed from the giving ourselves to one another as man and wife into belittlement and over powering. Had I known at the time how very wrongly she was behaving I would have called her up on it straight away and threatened to divorce her. And I would have been right to do so. But I didn’t really know at the time although I obviously felt it, so I looked online and read as many articles and approaches that I could to find a solution. All the advice was pretty similar and ultimately very damaging to me. What I needed was strength, self respect and freedom. I hate it when sex is used to destroy those rights.
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Post by mirrororchid on May 18, 2020 4:24:31 GMT -5
I think that back in the day when my wife started to act like a stranger to me sexually I was pretty much flat out either working at my job or at home. Sex started to become something that I should need and I had to earn from her. It changed from the giving ourselves to one another as man and wife into belittlement and over powering. Had I known at the time how very wrongly she was behaving I would have called her up on it straight away and threatened to divorce her. And I would have been right to do so. But I didn’t really know at the time although I obviously felt it, so I looked online and read as many articles and approaches that I could to find a solution. All the advice was pretty similar and ultimately very damaging to me. What I needed was strength, self respect and freedom. I hate it when sex is used to destroy those rights. Dang. Sorry, man. Your tone suggests she did too much damage emotionally to repair even if she did earnestly offer a "reset". Her separating finances suggests she sees the writing on the wall and is okay with it. Was she hoping you'd do this? The refuser may (almost) always be the one that holds on to the marriage unless perhaps they find someone they don't want to refuse. I've seen those. The refusers wait, hoping the other will break the vows first. Apocrypha talks of both spouses suffering, but I'm unsure both spouses do. The refuser may be filled with ennui or abstractly discontented, but the sexless marriage is fully accepted at least some of the time. Perhaps both do suffer and the difference in magnitude seems insulting to the refused. "Acceptance" is one of baza's options, but given the refuser's lack of hunger/misery, some (most?) of them could go the duration to the finish line coffin and bathe in the accolades of having pulled off the "death do we part" marathon. (That sounds like a super lame prize when I put it that way. The world's most boring race where not even the participants are enthusiastic. Humdrum mediocrity is considered a triumph. BLAH!) Sounds really good that you're building a social network to cushion the blow and build a takeoff runway. The separation of finances is commendable. I'd expect more fireworks from your wife. That's part of what leads me to think she expected/wanted this. As heroes say, looking furtively left and right with squinted eyes, in movies only 55 minutes in: "That was too easy." I think padgemi was the one to recommend getting all your financial info together. It's a good idea for making a will too, so it's not wasted effort if a miracle comes along to keep the two of you together. He had an exhaustive list of prep he had to do when he pulled the trigger. It deserves a post of its own.
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