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Post by Handy on May 30, 2020 0:54:23 GMT -5
Getting married again? I don't know. I am not selfish or commitment phobic. I see men and women on ILIASM as too giving and long suffering.
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Post by carl on May 30, 2020 2:15:55 GMT -5
northstarmom the reason that I prefer to wait before starting sex in a relationship is not because I see it as wrong in anyway but because for myself I know that I develop an over powering sense of attachment and connection after having sex. Well overpowering is not quite the right word but it can feel like that. Obviously I feel great physically and psychologically but subconsciously things happen in my brain and for example I feel as if I’ve known the person all my life or that we are very special to each other and meant to be etc etc. That bond will just tend to happen in my case whether I want it too or not and I can hide it but it’s very hard for me to detach. Changing tack or ending a relationship is a major struggle for me and I just do very badly with that. So although I love sex I kind of like the time before it happens because I don’t feel attached and so I feel more relaxed and more like myself. And so it’s mainly about getting to know somebody really well before feeling bonded to them.
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Post by northstarmom on May 30, 2020 10:52:03 GMT -5
On my 3rd date with my now post am partner of 7 years, I told him I would be willing to have sex with him (he had made a pass at me) after he got tested but wasn’t interested in living with him or marrying him. He seemed surprised that I brought up living together or marrying.
My plan, which I didn’t explain to him, was for him to be the first of a series of monogamous fwb relationships. I was enjoying the freedom of living by myself and not having to shape my life around anyone else.
I did move in with him a year later but remain unmarried. I love him and am happy with him but should things deteriorate I want to be able to leave quickly without the hassle and expense of divorcing.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 1, 2020 8:42:09 GMT -5
northstarmom the reason that I prefer to wait before starting sex in a relationship is not because I see it as wrong in anyway but because for myself I know that I develop an over powering sense of attachment and connection after having sex. Well overpowering is not quite the right word but it can feel like that. Obviously I feel great physically and psychologically but subconsciously things happen in my brain and for example I feel as if I’ve known the person all my life or that we are very special to each other and meant to be etc etc. That bond will just tend to happen in my case whether I want it too or not and I can hide it but it’s very hard for me to detach. Changing tack or ending a relationship is a major struggle for me and I just do very badly with that. So although I love sex I kind of like the time before it happens because I don’t feel attached and so I feel more relaxed and more like myself. And so it’s mainly about getting to know somebody really well before feeling bonded to them. Oh, Carl. That's just called falling in love with a person, and it's what happens to pretty much anyone. If you are open with your heart, you will eventually be hurt. That's the price people pay - the cost of entry in a relationship is the knowledge that it will one day end. Unless you avoid attachment altogether in your sexuality, or avoid sex because you are too afraid to feel personally invested. Both of those will lead you to a lonely life. Don't miss your life because you are too afraid to live it.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 2, 2020 5:55:40 GMT -5
Do you guys WANT to get married? Where were you when I was 25 and all I met were selfish commitment phobes? 🤔🙄 Sometimes I, too, think men are all alike: frustrating. 🤦♀️ We're as much alike as women are. I gave a promise ring to college sweetie, got engaged to second gf, married my wife. Just three. Thing is, I was single for four months in between each. You didn't have much time if you weren't willing to "steal" me away. (poly wasn't a thing in the 90's) In college, two ladies were circling. A good man willing to commit doesn't last long. Committing to a guy like that will have to go very fast. Terrifyingly fast. There's no time to size up candidates methodically. I dated a lovely lady once (literally just once) who tagged along with a friend of mine to my wedding (delighted to have her.). The friend blurted out to my friend in the car ride home, "How was I supposed to know???!!!" Happily, she found a husband not long after. So "the good ones are all taken"? That means getting one who isn't so good. Reports have it men who are in the 80th percentile of good looks get messaged on Tinder. Fellas at the 79th are rated "below average" in looks. The disconnect is gobsmacking. Well above average men (at least in looks) are passed over. One guy out of five is getting offers. That suggests these guys get five women to choose from. As men are NOT women, the first thought that occurs to them is probably not "Golly! How will I choose to have sex with the right one? I better date each for lengthy periods and weigh the pros and cons and get to know them. See if I gel with their family. Will we make a good team to start a family?" And at the first sign of trouble? Four more are waiting. The cure? Lower your standards. This matchmaker has the proof: If commitment is a high priority, figure out what you can do without. A way oversimplified rule is: Money, Looks, Smarts. Assign a value to each, add up the points, try to date that. No luck, drop one of them until you start getting results. Just google "date short guy". Lots of advocates (I'm 6'0". I've got no dog in this race.) How many women can't get past being taller than their fella because their cavewoman brains equate that with an inadequate protector? Time to get cerebral. If you had a good looking fella, dedicated to you, and he's whip smart, but dammit! He's an artist and is behind on his rent for a room in a group house in a not so safe part of town, could you handle paying for dates? What about the penny-pinching cheapskate with a slightly large nose who drives a dumpy car, has ill-fitting clothes, and can't dance to save his life? (Real life example. Guess who I'm describing at age 25.) Those are the sacrifices demanded to get commitment from a guy without lightning strike kind of luck. Staying single is what many women choose or end up with and find it preferable. (Perhaps getting a time slot with a Tinder stud when the mood strikes. Hopefully with a guy willing to stay safe. They get to make that call at the 90th percentile.)
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 2, 2020 6:17:50 GMT -5
...I know that I develop an over powering sense of attachment and connection after having sex... subconsciously things happen in my brain and for example I feel as if I’ve known the person all my life or that we are very special to each other and meant to be etc etc. That bond will just tend to happen in my case whether I want it to or not... Oh, Carl. That's just called falling in love with a person, and it's what happens to pretty much anyone. If you are open with your heart, you will eventually be hurt. That's the price people pay - the cost of entry in a relationship is the knowledge that it will one day end. Unless you avoid attachment altogether in your sexuality, or avoid sex because you are too afraid to feel personally invested. Both of those will lead you to a lonely life. Caveman instincts, bud. Sex equaled babies for most of human existence. (If you don't believe in evolution, it can still be useful to entertain the notion that IF it were true, this is how it would work.) When a woman coupled with a caveman, the crazy lust they enjoyed ensured children that their bodies thought would be strong and healthy (a lot having to do with pheromones signally immune complex factors, as odd as that sounds. Disease was a key killer of early man.) That bond ensured you stayed by her side until she bore your child. Maybe two. You wanted her all the time and were willing to throw down with another caveman who wanted her too. Emotional connection is why you and I are here. Obsession meant procreation. If such obsession were unpleasant we'd avoid it. Instead we love it. We embrace it. We cherish it. Love is the meaning of life. Literally! That said, cavepeople didn't worry much about plans to save for their children's college fund. There were no lawyers to execute divorces (gee, who has a time machine lying around? Anybody?) If people found each other attractive, I'm guessing things moved pretty quick. You're feeling that urge to protect your woman to ensure her survival and thus your child. It's built in. It has it's noble side, but its animal nature is buried within. You may want to entertain the notion of moderation. Your mindset seems to suggest marriage is essential to a sexual relationship. Intent to marry may be critical to you. Lots of ladies would be quite pleased about that. If it's not going to happen, many couples blow apart like a hand grenade. Commitment to the next lady love becomes all important and all consuming. I find this tragic. Why should we not continue the commitment past our dissolution? Why should a "near miss" be treated the same as a woman you met on Tinder, didn't click with, didn't sleep with, didn't even kiss, and never saw again? Why are "wife" and "total stranger" the only options? My continued friendship with an ex-fiancee made my wife quite nervous for quite a while. She and her husband sang at our wedding. Either my wife or my ex-fiancee could call the other in an emergency now. I will help that ex-fiancee of mine if she's in a bind some day. She hosted me for a weekend in Florida this past February. I had lunch with her husband. I went to a show he was in when he was in town. Those urges you get to dive deep into a powerful, strong love need not dash your heart on the floor. (bruise a little, I admit) They can produce lifelong friends with very special memories and circumstances the rest of the world finds odd, but maybe they'd appeal to you too? Would it be so terrible to have five or six lady friends who you would pick up from the airport if they asked? Wouldn't it be a good thing to be able to ask one of them to take your wife to the hospital is she were hurt and you were out of town? Commitment need not be so all or nothing. "Special" friends might be something you may not know you were missing.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 3, 2020 19:39:36 GMT -5
mirrororchid if you're implying I was excessively picky when single, I dispute that idea. In the absence of a guy who wanted to marry me, I focused on gainful employment and ended up having to move to different cities to purse my career. I would have been glad to stop moving had I met a guy, but the ones I met were either already married or we didn't click. Some married young, were divorced and bitter, too. Quite honestly, I think some men prefer a woman who plays silly girly games, lies, acts helpless, etc. That's not me. I'm very kind, but I don't suffer fools gladly. I'm a strong cup of coffee.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 8, 2020 5:35:03 GMT -5
mirrororchid if you're implying I was excessively picky when single, I dispute that idea. In the absence of a guy who wanted to marry me, I focused on gainful employment and ended up having to move to different cities to purse my career. I would have been glad to stop moving had I met a guy, but the ones I met were either already married or we didn't click. Some married young, were divorced and bitter, too. Quite honestly, I think some men prefer a woman who plays silly girly games, lies, acts helpless, etc. That's not me. I'm very kind, but I don't suffer fools gladly. I'm a strong cup of coffee. Virtually no idea what your single life and M.O. was like. You weren't picky, but didn't "click" with any single guys. The ones you "clicked" with were married. Some curiosity here on what triggers "clicking", I admit. Perhaps had you "clicked" more easily, some of those single guys were commitment minded. This sounds accusatory, but is it worthwhile to commit to a partner you don't "click" with? Clearly not. Prioritizing career over marriage is not necessarily ill-advised. That you preferred it to pairing up with the single fellas you turned down is a good indicator that it was the superior choice. "Settling" has a bad rap. But many people do. Too much willingness to "settle" can come across as "desperate". A lovely vicious cycle can ensue there. "Picky" has negative connotations. Similar behavior can be classified as "discriminating tastes." My sister is 54, never had a serious romance. Has a 30+ year pension with the Fed. House is paid. Was she picky? Did she have other priorities? Her lack of serious romance seems to be met with a dismissive, fatalistic, mild wistfulness. "Oh well," she seems to think. Then she plans her trip to the Galapagos, the Rhine River cruise, or Myrtle Beach. Picky? Maybe, but who cares.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 8, 2020 13:28:02 GMT -5
mirrororchid I'm going to send you my dating history with identities concealed so you can judge what I did wrong. In the meantime, maybe be friendly with your sister so you can travel with her? Federal pensions can be pretty cushy!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 15:35:22 GMT -5
mirrororchid if you're implying I was excessively picky when single, I dispute that idea. In the absence of a guy who wanted to marry me, I focused on gainful employment and ended up having to move to different cities to purse my career. I would have been glad to stop moving had I met a guy, but the ones I met were either already married or we didn't click. Some married young, were divorced and bitter, too. Quite honestly, I think some men prefer a woman who plays silly girly games, lies, acts helpless, etc. That's not me. I'm very kind, but I don't suffer fools gladly. I'm a strong cup of coffee. There are still men at "our age" (I'm right behind you) that want silly girly games, etc?! Wow. Who the hell wants to put up with all that nonsense again?!
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Post by Handy on Aug 8, 2020 16:12:36 GMT -5
I didn't want to start a new thread but I found this definition on another forum. Constructive abandonment
Constructive abandonment comes into picture when a party is constrained to leave the marital home due to the other spouse's conduct. Constructive abandonment does not require leaving the marital home, but it implies a departure from the matrimonial relationship. A spouse's refusal to perform, or withdrawal from performing, marital responsibilities can constitute constructive abandonment. A court considered a husband's continuous refusal of sexual relations with his wife for a long period of time without any valid reason to be constructive abandonment. A spouse's refusal to lend economic support to the family also was considered constructive abandonment.
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Post by csl on Aug 8, 2020 18:24:13 GMT -5
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