|
|
Post by ironhamster on Oct 5, 2017 8:46:47 GMT -5
northstarmom, at that point, they were teenagers. I was already talking with my eldest, who was planning her wedding, to make sure she did not repeat my mistakes. I do agree that young kids don't need to be exposed to that crap. I should have been more clear in my post.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 8:53:40 GMT -5
H, when she said it to me, I thought exactly the same thing. Of course, she didn't see it that way at all. Well now that we know what she is did she name her price? Ok, that is absolutely hilarious. But it did spark a memory. She did once say that if I ever made $1,000,000 in one year, she would go ANYWHERE I wanted to go. That may or may not have included sex, but I think that is what she meant. So that was probably the price. Of course, at that rate, she would need to be a LOT better at it. |
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Oct 5, 2017 8:54:13 GMT -5
Iron hamster, even teens do not need to be exposed to that kind of fighting. Again, I was exposed to that as a child and as a teen. I was so unhappy living amid that that I begged my mom to divorce. She didn't. She ended up staying with my dad until he died years later after becoming disabled and incontinent (she was his caretaker) after a series of strokes.
The happiest day of my life was when I got to move out and go to college. I returned for holidays only reluctantly. I couldn't wait to leave. Even after my father died, I hated returning home because it brought back memories of misery.
|
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Oct 5, 2017 9:07:35 GMT -5
Well now that we know what she is did she name her price? Ok, that is absolutely hilarious. But it did spark a memory. She did once say that if I ever made $1,000,000 in one year, she would go ANYWHERE I wanted to go. That may or may not have included sex, but I think that is what she meant. So that was probably the price. Of course, at that rate, she would need to be a LOT better at it. Perhaps she saw the movie with Robert Redford? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 9:27:25 GMT -5
@smartkat , "[... mad at something you did long ago.]" OMFG! I got that crap a lot. I can't believe I missed it. Shortcomings for something YEARS past, like upsetting the kids by not turning off the news, has been used on me more times than I can possibly count. The LAST time it was used, I literally stood up on the bed and yelled at her that the ONLY reason she was bringing that up is because she did not want to have sex with me. She tried to quiet me down, lest the kids hear, but I made adamantly clear that the kids would hear. Ironhamster, you just sparked something else for me. I was never allowed to bring up anything my refuser had done in the past. However, that rule did not apply to me. Back in 2000, when I was in the middle of the studying for the bar exam, my W and my Mom were driving to the new town where my job would be. I asked my W to please keep me posted about their whereabouts because they were driving about 350 miles and I would be worried about them. She had a cell phone, and I wanted her to let me know when they arrived. I waited & waited & waited, and no call ever came. I was very frantic because it was 2 women and two small girls, and the drive was though some very desolate areas. I called and called the cell number and it went directly to voice mail. Finally, about 10:30 pm, she called. She told me that they had gone out to eat, and done some shopping, and she just didn't think about letting me know. Because I was very stressed about taking the most important exam of my life, and I had been frantic all day, I lost my temper. I told her that I could not believe that she had been so inconsiderate as to not let me know, I was worried to death, and she could have easily called. I know I should not have, but I did. During the call, I calmed down and tried to apologize, but she would have none of it. I was a horrible person for losing my temper and I should be glad that she did not divorce me right then. She brought this up every time she was angry with me. From 2000 to 2016, she constantly would tell me how horrible this was. Of course, I was NEVER allowed to talk about anything she had done in the past. Yet another reason I was right to get away from her. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 9:32:52 GMT -5
Ok, that is absolutely hilarious. But it did spark a memory. She did once say that if I ever made $1,000,000 in one year, she would go ANYWHERE I wanted to go. That may or may not have included sex, but I think that is what she meant. So that was probably the price. Of course, at that rate, she would need to be a LOT better at it. Perhaps she saw the movie with Robert Redford? Ok, I am going to have to meet you in person someday. You are too dang funny. Indecent Proposal was the movie. Here is my favorite joke about it... A man & his wife had just seen the movie. The husband was a bit disturbed so he turned to his wife and asked, "Would you fuck Robert Redford for a million dollars?" His wife answered, "Only if I could raise the money!" |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 9:34:43 GMT -5
are these reasons in our heads, or what our refusers say? I don't know about everyone, but those are exactly what she said to me. |
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Oct 5, 2017 10:02:10 GMT -5
@smartkat , "[... mad at something you did long ago.]" OMFG! I got that crap a lot. I can't believe I missed it. Shortcomings for something YEARS past, like upsetting the kids by not turning off the news, has been used on me more times than I can possibly count. The LAST time it was used, I literally stood up on the bed and yelled at her that the ONLY reason she was bringing that up is because she did not want to have sex with me. She tried to quiet me down, lest the kids hear, but I made adamantly clear that the kids would hear. Ironhamster, you just sparked something else for me. I was never allowed to bring up anything my refuser had done in the past. However, that rule did not apply to me. Back in 2000, when I was in the middle of the studying for the bar exam, my W and my Mom were driving to the new town where my job would be. I asked my W to please keep me posted about their whereabouts because they were driving about 350 miles and I would be worried about them. She had a cell phone, and I wanted her to let me know when they arrived. I waited & waited & waited, and no call ever came. I was very frantic because it was 2 women and two small girls, and the drive was though some very desolate areas. I called and called the cell number and it went directly to voice mail. Finally, about 10:30 pm, she called. She told me that they had gone out to eat, and done some shopping, and she just didn't think about letting me know. Because I was very stressed about taking the most important exam of my life, and I had been frantic all day, I lost my temper. I told her that I could not believe that she had been so inconsiderate as to not let me know, I was worried to death, and she could have easily called. I know I should not have, but I did. During the call, I calmed down and tried to apologize, but she would have none of it. I was a horrible person for losing my temper and I should be glad that she did not divorce me right then. She brought this up every time she was angry with me. From 2000 to 2016, she constantly would tell me how horrible this was. Of course, I was NEVER allowed to talk about anything she had done in the past. Yet another reason I was right to get away from her. Straight out of the narcissist playbook! These episodes have DARVO written all over them. A one way street paved with double standards! The best thing to do is to get out. |
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Oct 5, 2017 11:32:30 GMT -5
are these reasons in our heads, or what our refusers say? I don't know about everyone, but those are exactly what she said to me. As I'm collecting these, I do see two different types of "why chasing". The first center around self-doubt. For example, wondering if you're good in bed, or wondering if you are attractive. These come entirely from within our own minds. The others are purely from the refuser and are pure excuses (whether grounded in fact or fantasy). For example, saying that it is too early or too late. These come from the refusers mouths directly. From the perspective of "why chasing" they are similar. From a perspective of recovery? Completely different animals. It's much easier to dismiss what comes from the refuser's mouth when they are no longer in the picture. The scars from your own self-worth / self-doubt issues can linger for quite a while. Of course, often the refusers comments burrow into your head, and that is where you get the double-whammy. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 12:42:08 GMT -5
Yeah, a couple of people have made the distinction between 1) things our refusers said to us directly; 2) things our refusers said which could have been interpreted in more than one way; and 3) ideas we thought of by ourselves.
In my case, my refuser did directly tell me that he had health problems. But a lot of the rest of the reasons were things I assumed, either from his behavior or my own self-doubt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 13:43:36 GMT -5
Straight out of the narcissist playbook! These episodes have DARVO written all over them. A one way street paved with double standards! The best thing to do is to get out. You are correct, my friend. I was told by a counselor that she was probably a narcissist back in 2002. But when I first found Dr. Palmatier's site, I almost fell over. She was describing my wife almost perfectly. |
|
|
|
Post by wanderlust on Oct 7, 2017 13:43:17 GMT -5
2 1/2 years ago, I married my W. She is 63, I am 58. I wanted to put her on my insurance so she could quit a high stress job. She had a historectomy 25 years ago. As a result, she was having serious bladder issues and a prolapsing vagina. The added stress from her job would not be beneficial to her healing so marriage allowed her to retire. I have a good insurance. Other problems include nuropathy (nerve pain) in her toes from a botched surgery. Possible fibromyalga, possible lupus, borderline diabetes. Lots of meds including ones for pain, depression, blood pressure and thyroid.
W had her surgery 2 years ago. She used the diolators for a short time which would make sex possible. PIV happened 1 time last February for about 5 minutes. I was so careful and gentle. It has not happened since. She is prone to infection and basically says sex is off the table for that reason. None of the oral antibiotics work, except 1. The side effects for her are terrible from this drug. If that drug stops working the only option is intravenious antibiotics. Before marriage, 1 or 2 sexual encounters a week were the norm. Now a less than enthusiastic bj every 4 to 8 weeks. I pray for guidance and resolution for W to be free of pain and to have a normal life. I love my W and desparately want to restore closeness and intimacy into our relationship before it is too late, even if it does not involve PIV sex. We both need that bond to keep our marriage strong even if she does not realize it yet. After the marriage and subsequent retirement, she went from acting young and vibrant to retired old lady mode. Dramatic difference. I believe that she is capable of having intercourse but she feels her life is better without. She has always closed the door when she dresses/showers, not allowed to see her naked. Now,she pulls away when I try to intimately touch or kiss so I think the problems go much deeper than medical issues. I have not yet addressed this issue seriously with her, it is the reason I am here on the forum. I am currently reading a book called the sex starved marriage by Michelle weiner davis. It gives alot of insight. I read a little, journal a little, read this forum.
|
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Oct 7, 2017 14:16:58 GMT -5
Wanderlust, your wife's medical problems wouldn't prevent non piv sexual activities. Do you wonder whether she married you so she could retire with good insurance?
|
|
|
|
Post by wanderlust on Oct 7, 2017 14:26:51 GMT -5
If it were just a list of excuses that my W has used... Sorry Mr I don’t feel like it 1) I’m too tired 2) We haven’t got time 3) But you have to get up in the morning 4) I’ve not long had a bath/shower 5) I’m not clean 6) Wait until Sunday/Monday or whatever day 7) I’m too full from dinner 8) I’ve got a headache 9) I’m just doing this 10) I’m nearly on my period 11) I’m on my period 12) I’ve only just finished my period 13) I’m a bit too drunk 14) I’m too stressed and had a crap day 15) Just because you’re in the mood doesn’t mean I am 16) I’ve just got a low sex drive 17) I thought you married me for who I am The answer in my mind to all these excuses 1) I didn’t just ask you to run a marathon in the rain 2) 30 minutes! We haven’t had 30 minutes in the last month? 3) You’re seriously trying to make out that you have my best interests at heart? What about the shit quality of sleep I will now have as I lay wondering if I am completely undesirable. 4) Perfect! I can literally run my tongue all over your body then 5) Have a quick shower then! 6) I’ve been waiting 35 days already 7) let’s give it an hour then because you won’t be full for the next 3 hours 8) But you haven’t even looked in the direction of a headache tablet all day 9) Stop doing that and have sex then 10) Let’s get it on then before you come on 11) fair play 12) Perfect! What’s the problem then 13) Fucking great! 14) Let’s unwind together then and get lost in the moment for an hour 15) I’ve had sex with you when I wasn’t in the mood but you were because, I enjoy pleasing you. 16) How is it that you masturbate and watch porn then? 17) but did you marry me for who I am? I get the "raincheck" excuse, after she has promised to be intimate. I have to use the special soap" in the shower. Different bedtime. The not now's, the don't touch me like that, you know I don't like it and you do it anyway. Heart burn or tummy troubles, I could go on and on... |
|
|
|
Post by wanderlust on Oct 7, 2017 14:42:42 GMT -5
Wanderlust, your wife's medical problems wouldn't prevent non piv sexual activities. Do you wonder whether she married you so she could retire with good insurance? yes, I think about it alot. I have pushed my retirement plan forward a few years. I am retiring in 2 months. I wonder if I am making a mistake. I wonder if I was her retirement plan all along and if she loves me or just the concept of me. She would have to go back to work without my income so I would feel guilt by leaving. |
|
