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Post by sunniedays on Jan 17, 2017 11:05:35 GMT -5
sunniedays : "Maybe they're refusing because you call them refusers. Just sayin'. Technically, it's an accurate description, because they are 'refusing' to engage in sex every time their partner wants to. But come on, it's pretty much a derogatory name. Would you want to be referred to as 'demander' by the person who was supposed to love you?" Actually a lot of refusers do tell us how "demanding" we are. And "refuser" sounds better, in my opinion, than "frigid b-----" or "limp dick." If someone is in a relationship where they're contemplating whether to call their partner frigid b**** or limp dick, the fact that they aren't getting any sex is the least of their worries. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 19:41:29 GMT -5
sunniedays : "Maybe they're refusing because you call them refusers. Just sayin'. Technically, it's an accurate description, because they are 'refusing' to engage in sex every time their partner wants to. But come on, it's pretty much a derogatory name. Would you want to be referred to as 'demander' by the person who was supposed to love you?" Actually a lot of refusers do tell us how "demanding" we are. And "refuser" sounds better, in my opinion, than "frigid b-----" or "limp dick." If someone is in a relationship where they're contemplating whether to call their partner frigid b**** or limp dick, the fact that they aren't getting any sex is the least of their worries. Well, in that case, I will continue to use the term "refuser" to describe a person who will not have sex with his or her partner - who still expects monogamy, and will get all butthurt if the partner can't handle celibacy. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 17, 2017 23:51:32 GMT -5
sunniedays : "Maybe they're refusing because you call them refusers. Just sayin'. Technically, it's an accurate description, because they are 'refusing' to engage in sex every time their partner wants to. But come on, it's pretty much a derogatory name. Would you want to be referred to as 'demander' by the person who was supposed to love you?" Actually a lot of refusers do tell us how "demanding" we are. And "refuser" sounds better, in my opinion, than "frigid b-----" or "limp dick." If someone is in a relationship where they're contemplating whether to call their partner frigid b**** or limp dick, the fact that they aren't getting any sex is the least of their worries. No. It is the refusing that causes that attitude. Trust me on that. I'll also suggest that the term "refuser" was used universally in the predecessor EP experience group, and it is the same here. You are not going to change us or or our terminology here to suit your individual preferences. You are swimming upstream against a very stiff current. My refuser always was a refuser and would always be one if I hadn't left, making it a moot point. But then I was never one to buckle under to political correctness. |
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Post by sunniedays on Jan 18, 2017 10:46:51 GMT -5
If someone is in a relationship where they're contemplating whether to call their partner frigid b**** or limp dick, the fact that they aren't getting any sex is the least of their worries. No. It is the refusing that causes that attitude. Trust me on that. I'll also suggest that the term "refuser" was used universally in the predecessor EP experience group, and it is the same here. You are not going to change us or or our terminology here to suit your individual preferences. You are swimming upstream against a very stiff current. My refuser always was a refuser and would always be one if I hadn't left, making it a moot point. But then I was never one to buckle under to political correctness. I'm not interested in what came first: the name or the attitude. I don't care. I'm not trying to change anything to suit my preferences. I'm the last person who anyone would describe as politically correct. I was just pointing out an observation I've come to after reading numerous posts; and that is that the majority of the unhappy people on this site are so angry with their SO's they resort to name-calling, disparaging descriptions of the person, up to and including wishing ill will upon them for whatever unfair treatment the poster has received from them. I understand that people here are angry. I get it. But to constantly refer to a person whom you chose to be your partner as "my refuser" really shines light on the person who is doing the name-calling. "MY REFUSER." Seems like most posters only want to blame their SO's for bad behavior. But rarely - rarely do I read anything where OP takes responsibility for choosing this person in the first place. All we see is, "well, they weren't like this in the beginning." Okay. I'll buy that. Then change your circumstances. Don't bitch and complain about "my refuser" this - and "my refuser" that. It would be refreshing to read a poster start with the opening line, "Hey, I chose the wrong person. Wasn't what he/she said she was. So I left." So many people here have been in their "horrible" relationship for years and years -- some still with the person, yet refer to them as "my refuser." What the hell? It's derogatory. I mean, you're in a marriage with someone you chose, yet you call them "my refuser". If you're at a point where you're referring to the person you "love" (or loved at one time) as a refuser, you're to a toxic stage. In my opinion, when someone goes on and on about how miserable and mistreated they are by their "refuser", yet takes no responsibility and doesn't make a concerted effort to change their circumstances, it only makes that person look bad. It's like no one here wants to say, "My husband", or "my wife." They will only refer to the offending party as "my refuser." That's my point. Yes, they refuse/refused. But take some responsibility for your choice. I don't think anyone would find a similar site where the posters refer to the offending party as "My alcoholic." or "my child molester." or "my lazy non-worker." or "my adulterer." I'm not trying to change anyone's terminology. Just making an observation. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 18, 2017 10:58:39 GMT -5
No. It is the refusing that causes that attitude. Trust me on that. I'll also suggest that the term "refuser" was used universally in the predecessor EP experience group, and it is the same here. You are not going to change us or or our terminology here to suit your individual preferences. You are swimming upstream against a very stiff current. My refuser always was a refuser and would always be one if I hadn't left, making it a moot point. But then I was never one to buckle under to political correctness. I'm not interested in what came first: the name or the attitude. I don't care. I'm not trying to change anything to suit my preferences. I'm the last person who anyone would describe as politically correct. I was just pointing out an observation I've come to after reading numerous posts; and that is that the majority of the unhappy people on this site are so angry with their SO's they resort to name-calling, disparaging descriptions of the person, up to and including wishing ill will upon them for whatever unfair treatment the poster has received from them. I understand that people here are angry. I get it. But to constantly refer to a person whom you chose to be your partner as "my refuser" really shines light on the person who is doing the name-calling. "MY REFUSER." Seems like most posters only want to blame their SO's for bad behavior. But rarely - rarely do I read anything where OP takes responsibility for choosing this person in the first place. All we see is, "well, they weren't like this in the beginning." Okay. I'll buy that. Then change your circumstances. Don't bitch and complain about "my refuser" this - and "my refuser" that. It would be refreshing to read a poster start with the opening line, "Hey, I chose the wrong person. Wasn't what he/she said she was. So I left." So many people here have been in their "horrible" relationship for years and years -- some still with the person, yet refer to them as "my refuser." What the hell? It's derogatory. I mean, you're in a marriage with someone you chose, yet you call them "my refuser". If you're at a point where you're referring to the person you "love" (or loved at one time) as a refuser, you're to a toxic stage. In my opinion, when someone goes on and on about how miserable and mistreated they are by their "refuser", yet takes no responsibility and doesn't make a concerted effort to change their circumstances, it only makes that person look bad. It's like no one here wants to say, "My husband", or "my wife." They will only refer to the offending party as "my refuser." That's my point. Yes, they refuse/refused. But take some responsibility for your choice. I don't think anyone would find a similar site where the posters refer to the offending party as "My alcoholic." or "my child molester." or "my lazy non-worker." or "my adulterer." I'm not trying to change anyone's terminology. Just making an observation. I wish I had the energy to pick through your post. I havent. So ill just just say that you obviously cannot have had time to read through every post on here to find out everyone's back stories. We say our refusers for ease. Nobody comes here to be nasty. Nobody. We come for support aNd understanding. There are a tonne of much worse descriptors we could use. Im not easily offended. But you just managed it. |
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Post by sunniedays on Jan 18, 2017 11:04:48 GMT -5
If someone is in a relationship where they're contemplating whether to call their partner frigid b**** or limp dick, the fact that they aren't getting any sex is the least of their worries. Well, in that case, I will continue to use the term "refuser" to describe a person who will not have sex with his or her partner - who still expects monogamy, and will get all butthurt if the partner can't handle celibacy. Or you could refer to them as someone you chose, who didn't turn out to be the person you thought they were. Seems like no one ever starts a story with, "Well, my husband....." Or, "my wife." It's almost like people here are, in a way, trying to deflect the blame off themselves by assigning a derogatory name to their partner, and then in more than half of the situations, they continue to STAY with the person, while continuing to complain and resort to name-calling. I understand this is a place to vent and get advice. I'm only making an observation. Seems like situations might be resolved a little faster and a little easier if people could simply state, I chose this person. They turned out not to be A) what they said they were, or B) what I wanted. I made a mistake. I changed my circumstances. I am absolutely not condoning bad behavior or misleading behavior by any spouse or partner. |
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Post by sunniedays on Jan 18, 2017 11:23:24 GMT -5
I'm not interested in what came first: the name or the attitude. I don't care. I'm not trying to change anything to suit my preferences. I'm the last person who anyone would describe as politically correct. I was just pointing out an observation I've come to after reading numerous posts; and that is that the majority of the unhappy people on this site are so angry with their SO's they resort to name-calling, disparaging descriptions of the person, up to and including wishing ill will upon them for whatever unfair treatment the poster has received from them. I understand that people here are angry. I get it. But to constantly refer to a person whom you chose to be your partner as "my refuser" really shines light on the person who is doing the name-calling. "MY REFUSER." Seems like most posters only want to blame their SO's for bad behavior. But rarely - rarely do I read anything where OP takes responsibility for choosing this person in the first place. All we see is, "well, they weren't like this in the beginning." Okay. I'll buy that. Then change your circumstances. Don't bitch and complain about "my refuser" this - and "my refuser" that. It would be refreshing to read a poster start with the opening line, "Hey, I chose the wrong person. Wasn't what he/she said she was. So I left." So many people here have been in their "horrible" relationship for years and years -- some still with the person, yet refer to them as "my refuser." What the hell? It's derogatory. I mean, you're in a marriage with someone you chose, yet you call them "my refuser". If you're at a point where you're referring to the person you "love" (or loved at one time) as a refuser, you're to a toxic stage. In my opinion, when someone goes on and on about how miserable and mistreated they are by their "refuser", yet takes no responsibility and doesn't make a concerted effort to change their circumstances, it only makes that person look bad. It's like no one here wants to say, "My husband", or "my wife." They will only refer to the offending party as "my refuser." That's my point. Yes, they refuse/refused. But take some responsibility for your choice. I don't think anyone would find a similar site where the posters refer to the offending party as "My alcoholic." or "my child molester." or "my lazy non-worker." or "my adulterer." I'm not trying to change anyone's terminology. Just making an observation. I wish I had the energy to pick through your post. I havent. So ill just just say that you obviously cannot have had time to read through every post on here to find out everyone's back stories. We say our refusers for ease. Nobody comes here to be nasty. Nobody. We come for support aNd understanding. There are a tonne of much worse descriptors we could use. Im not easily offended. But you just managed it. Don't be offended. I don't mean to offend. I'm just offering an opinion (everyone has one) of what I see when I read posts. Everyone needs support and understanding. I mean, maybe it's just me. Yes. Everyone knows. You've been refused. (not you, specifically. You, generally) Yes, your SO says they love you then they refuse you. Yes, it makes you feel horrible. Yes, some peoples' situations are more difficult than others'. I just look at my spouse as the person I chose, because I love him. If he turned out to be derelict in some way that wasn't acceptable to me, I would find a way to move on. I'm not going to pick a derogatory name to assign to him, and then only refer to him as that derogatory name, as if I had no say in who I chose to live my life with. You call them refusers for ease? How much more difficult is it to say, "my husband?" Or, "my wife?" I need to preface my next comment by telling you that I don't mean to offend. Truly. And I'm not judging anyone at all. There are a ton of much worse descriptors you could use? Is "the person I chose" one of those descriptors? |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 18, 2017 11:33:40 GMT -5
No. It is the refusing that causes that attitude. Trust me on that. I'll also suggest that the term "refuser" was used universally in the predecessor EP experience group, and it is the same here. You are not going to change us or or our terminology here to suit your individual preferences. You are swimming upstream against a very stiff current. My refuser always was a refuser and would always be one if I hadn't left, making it a moot point. But then I was never one to buckle under to political correctness. I'm not interested in what came first: the name or the attitude. I don't care. I'm not trying to change anything to suit my preferences. I'm the last person who anyone would describe as politically correct. I was just pointing out an observation I've come to after reading numerous posts; and that is that the majority of the unhappy people on this site are so angry with their SO's they resort to name-calling, disparaging descriptions of the person, up to and including wishing ill will upon them for whatever unfair treatment the poster has received from them. I understand that people here are angry. I get it. But to constantly refer to a person whom you chose to be your partner as "my refuser" really shines light on the person who is doing the name-calling. "MY REFUSER." Seems like most posters only want to blame their SO's for bad behavior. But rarely - rarely do I read anything where OP takes responsibility for choosing this person in the first place. All we see is, "well, they weren't like this in the beginning." Okay. I'll buy that. Then change your circumstances. Don't bitch and complain about "my refuser" this - and "my refuser" that. It would be refreshing to read a poster start with the opening line, "Hey, I chose the wrong person. Wasn't what he/she said she was. So I left." So many people here have been in their "horrible" relationship for years and years -- some still with the person, yet refer to them as "my refuser." What the hell? It's derogatory. I mean, you're in a marriage with someone you chose, yet you call them "my refuser". If you're at a point where you're referring to the person you "love" (or loved at one time) as a refuser, you're to a toxic stage. In my opinion, when someone goes on and on about how miserable and mistreated they are by their "refuser", yet takes no responsibility and doesn't make a concerted effort to change their circumstances, it only makes that person look bad. It's like no one here wants to say, "My husband", or "my wife." They will only refer to the offending party as "my refuser." That's my point. Yes, they refuse/refused. But take some responsibility for your choice. I don't think anyone would find a similar site where the posters refer to the offending party as "My alcoholic." or "my child molester." or "my lazy non-worker." or "my adulterer." I'm not trying to change anyone's terminology. Just making an observation. I would agree that by the time people find themselves here it is at a toxic stage of the marriage, like a stage 3 or 4 cancer. The marriage is in crisis and is pretty much not going to change. I would also agree that the people here are angry but that is a stage of grief and they have to work through it. If that means some name calling so be it. This is an outlet and a place where "the refused", "the rejected", "the celibate" feel safe to vent anonymously. The term "refuser" is just a vocabulary word to define the actions of our spouses. If they beat their spouse would the term "wife or husband beater" be less just? It's the reality of the situation as just a term with no negative connotation it is what they are. In regards to their actions it is abuse in a very indirect yet manipulative way. The bottom line is we the refused are in abusive incompatible marriages and we struggle to seek a solution. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 18, 2017 13:15:59 GMT -5
But rarely - rarely do I read anything where OP takes responsibility for choosing this person in the first place. I already told you my wife fucked my brains out on our first date, establishing herself as a VERY sexual person, and continued to do so until the wedding day. The next day she left me high and dry and sexless. What part of DECEIVED do you not understand? How much blame should I take for my STBX DECEIVING me?  And I can assure you that the DECEPTION continued until the day I left. If she had been honest with me that she had any sexual attraction for me at all, before we were married, I would feel much, much differently about things. If she had been honest, in words or behavior, then I would have only myself to blame. But it never would have happened. I was well aware my parents divorced due to an SM and I did everything I could to prevent that happening to me. It was a very conscious part of my wife vetting. Didn't matter. That's what I got for trusting her. I really have no further interest in arguing this. I will continue to use conventional terminology here and I suspect most or all the others here will too. Yes, I am quite pissed about it all. And yes, things were quite toxic when I left. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 18, 2017 13:20:01 GMT -5
If someone is in a relationship where they're contemplating whether to call their partner frigid b**** or limp dick, the fact that they aren't getting any sex is the least of their worries. No. It is the refusing that causes that attitude. Trust me on that. I'll also suggest that the term "refuser" was used universally in the predecessor EP experience group, and it is the same here. You are not going to change us or or our terminology here to suit your individual preferences. You are swimming upstream against a very stiff current. My refuser always was a refuser and would always be one if I hadn't left, making it a moot point. But then I was never one to buckle under to political correctness. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck then it's a damn duck! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 18, 2017 14:01:51 GMT -5
If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck then it's a damn duck! Mmmm... roasted duck-butt! |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 18, 2017 14:09:16 GMT -5
I wish I had the energy to pick through your post. I havent. So ill just just say that you obviously cannot have had time to read through every post on here to find out everyone's back stories. We say our refusers for ease. Nobody comes here to be nasty. Nobody. We come for support aNd understanding. There are a tonne of much worse descriptors we could use. Im not easily offended. But you just managed it. Don't be offended. I don't mean to offend. I'm just offering an opinion (everyone has one) of what I see when I read posts. Everyone needs support and understanding. I mean, maybe it's just me. Yes. Everyone knows. You've been refused. (not you, specifically. You, generally) Yes, your SO says they love you then they refuse you. Yes, it makes you feel horrible. Yes, some peoples' situations are more difficult than others'. I just look at my spouse as the person I chose, because I love him. If he turned out to be derelict in some way that wasn't acceptable to me, I would find a way to move on. I'm not going to pick a derogatory name to assign to him, and then only refer to him as that derogatory name, as if I had no say in who I chose to live my life with. You call them refusers for ease? How much more difficult is it to say, "my husband?" Or, "my wife?" I need to preface my next comment by telling you that I don't mean to offend. Truly. And I'm not judging anyone at all. There are a ton of much worse descriptors you could use? Is "the person I chose" one of those descriptors? Personally I couldn't give a rats ass whether you like that we use the term refusers or not. We can't please all the people all the time. This is recent revelation to me. I have been suffering at the hands of a master manipulator of my codependency and low self esteem. For me, it's easier than saying "my sort of fiancé whom I have zero intention of marrying of 17 years with a 3 1/2 year break " and I will happily continue using it. What actually fucked me off is that you seem to have this idea that we're all sitting here boo hooing and playing victim, enjoying the drama and seeking sympathy. How fucking insensitive can you be? We are all here saying "I've been such a dick for letting this happen" "Yes they are twats for treating us like this but also... we allowed it with our trust in them that things would get better, with our hopes for our futures together, our fucking years of desperation because the person we love doesn't love us back in the way we need and won't do anything to compromise" We have been conditioned into thinking we are sex maniacs, perverts, not right, undesirable, need I go on? We are pissed off. And justly so. We are here because we're struggling. Some have yet to have the fog lifted. Some choose to stay. Some choose to outsource. Some leave. We are here supporting each other through very tough times. This process can take years. So stop judging the strong courageous glorious human beings on this forum. |
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Post by lyn on Jan 18, 2017 14:11:00 GMT -5
What I'm seeing here is really a simple argument of semantics being led by someone who can't possibly relate to what it is to be refused - in this context. sunniedays Of course your opinion matters, absolutely. You are obviously in great pain over your lack of libido - that is quite clear. I'm quite certain no one is trying to alienate you or argue with you for expressing an opinion - however, it seems this particular opinion carries with it a lot of judgement. Maybe I'm off base, but that's how it comes off. If many of us refer to our Refusers as such, it's because it is what is. They ARE Refusers. Sure, at one time they may not have been referred to as that, but this is how it is now because it is true. Noting more, nothing less. Mincing words - that's really what this boils down to - and maybe, just maybe, you don't want this Refused label placed on yourself. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Jan 18, 2017 14:20:17 GMT -5
Well fuck me in the ass! I never bloody realised you are a refuser sunniedaysThat's shown me up for not reading back stories. I see why the attitude now. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 18, 2017 14:25:45 GMT -5
We say our refusers for ease. Well, I don't. I don't think I ever did on the old board either. And I don't think Sunnydays does either. So, "we" refers to the group people who characterize those who refer to their spouses as "refusers". And it seems the point of his post is to get people to consider their position on referring to their spouses that way - that it is indeed "easy", but that maybe easy doesn't benefit the situation. |
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